Maybe warped turbogrooves or maybe DTV

[SteveW]

Well I'm rather not impressed today I have discovered today at least one of my 2500 mile old turbogrooves is causing brake judder and virbration.

 

I was going down the motorway at about 70 and a car pulled out in front of me not really close requiring mega braking but close enough to warrant moderate braking. The entire car started shaking like mad it felt like from the back end after a couple more brake trials.

 

So back home and back wheel off brake disc on passenger side has developed about 300 microns of run out

 

Explains the shuddering under braking from highish speed, buggared my track day plans ....... Can't feel any vibrations under light braking at speeds under 50. The run out specs for the Brembos are 0.05mm for the front and 0.07mm. I'm gonna check all the discs and hubs as soon as possible but not impresseed haven't done any hard braking since I fitted them 2500 miles ago

 

Hmmm I just read this post http://www.350z-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=32481 and think I need to look into getting this done first!

 

I'll feedback results when sorted!

 

Thanks steve

[toffeeblock]

This is quite interesting, I had similar issues with mine but it was not quite so scary. Although my brakes were working well they had increasing vibration as the miles clocked up. I contacted EBC who advised the response below. This seems to be a common complaint and had I known I would not have got EBC turbogrooved discs and pads (mine are redstuff pads fyi). I got my front discs skimmed (£80) and all is well now. My local procut mechanic advised it was not really possible to originally fit the discs and pads badly, so to me this points to a fundamental fault in EBC design (assuming the mechanic was correct). Not being a mechanic myself I don't know who to believe, but in future I would stick with Nissan parts (or try another brand) just to avoid any risk.

 

Email response from EBC.....

 

"This is always a fitting issue where the discs have been fitted with too much runout and then the discs contact the pads Every revolution when not braking this wears a small dip in the disc surface and when you brake the pads jump over the dip and cause vibration through the steering Usually it takes approx 3000 miles or so to appear then gets worse

This is what people mistakenly call warp

Two ways to sort it

You can replace them but you may get the same again if they do not measure the disc runout in every hole position to less than 2 thou

Or the best way is to go to a pro-cut centre and have your discs skimmed on the car this not only trues the disc up but also aligns them to your particular car Go to http://www.ebcbrakes.com click on troubleshooting and scroll down to pro-cut centres you should find several in your area"

[mic-39]

Funny they said the same to me when i had the same complaint

 

@ Steve--was that you I was speaking to at RS on saturday

[SteveW]

@ Steve--was that you I was speaking to at RS on saturday

 

Hi Mic,

 

yes it was me down at RS on saturday, how did you go in the end?

Wish I could have stayed around but had prior arrangements.

Good to meet you hope it all went well and the drive back wasn't too stressful, nice plate by the way

 

 

I've bought a clock to actually check the runout properly instead of using feeler gauges and the caliper, it was taking ages!

But based on feeler gauge measurements its gonna be time to go to a procut centre.

 

Thanks

Steve

[rtbiscuit]

not encouraging reading, EBC was what i was looking at with the ultimax discs.

 

also your not meant to use the red/yellow stuff pads with anything other a standard flat disc.

[UNABASHED]

not encouraging reading, EBC was what i was looking at with the ultimax discs.

 

also your not meant to use the red/yellow stuff pads with anything other a standard flat disc.

 

 

I've not heard about not using red/yellow stuff pads with anything other than a flat disc?

 

I use yellowstuff pads with DBA slotted disks as recommended on here - are you saying this can lead to complications down the line?

[mic-39]

+1

 

EBC did not mention when I discussed my issues with them that there was a conflict between yellowstuff and turbogroove discs

[toffeeblock]

EBC happily sold me the combo (via my local garage) of turbogroove and redstuff, and were advised of this when I contacted them via their website. When you look at their website one item I read seem to imply that they recommend skimming for EVERY installation. What a joke! Brakes sold for a specific car should just fit or am I missing something? Maybe I was just unlucky.

 

Some traders may have more info (e.g. CS) about the most reliable combo of course, and which don't need to be installed using precision engineering.

[T8 JPE]

I run Turbo groove with red stuff pads. As supplied by CS and they are fine and probably done near enough 20kmiles and 2 trackdays. maybe its a manufacturing fault/ faulty batch?

[rtbiscuit]

it was bulletmagnet who posted on the forum that the pads were designed for flat discs.

 

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=34347&hilit=red+stuff+brake+pads&start=15

 

2nd page half way down

[GT4 Zed]

Steve, i wrote tghe DTV post and this issue is not and EBC problem but one common to all brakes. The advice to check DTV before putting new pads or discs or both is valid and is used by the big boys at Porsche, ferrari, lambo etc! With new cars everything is within tolerance and is usually not a problem but as the car gets older the is uneven wear everywher and so to check DTV and skimming if there is runout caters for individual cars in particular and gaurantees a bespoke "fit". otherwise you can just gamble it and wait for it to happen if at all it does happen to your zed.

People have had this with oem setup for ages and off course nissan or your local garage usually claim there has been warping and recommend buying new discs and or pads when a simple skim on car would have sorted the issue for good.

True warping hardly happens with modern discs and its just an overrated word!

[SteveW]

GT4 Zed I think you are right I've measured the hub run out and it is out of spec.

 

At the end of the day the wheel bearings amd hub wear which seems to be the root cause.

 

I had one of my disks checked on the CMM at work for flatness and it is less than 50 microns out of flat which if mounted to a brand new car would have no problems. The problem for me seems to be caused because my hub runs out by 150 microns, three times the limit for the assmebly with the disk and thus the root cause of the vibrations.

 

A pro-cut skim should fix the problem, I'll let everyone know how I get on when sorted.

 

Thanks

Steve

[SteveW]

Well I bought myself a clock and base and checked my disc runouts, all was well until I got to the nearside rear . . .

 

Nearside front = 0.03 mm

Offside front = 0.05 mm

Oddside rear = 0.08 mm

Nearside rear = 0.45 mm!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Car is off in Thursday for P2 service and Procut skimming see how I get on. I'll post up runouts afterwards, only getting rears done because fronts are in.

[SteveW]

Well car got serviced but discs didn't get skimmed, garage were unwilling to do them because they are drilled and grooved and were concerned they would damage the machine.

 

Bloody main dealers need a kicking!#

 

Trying to locate somewhere else tomorrow!

[Zazur]

Hi SteveW, I have turbo groove with yellow pads and I had the same problem after 800 miles

 

4 different companies have checked my discs and all say they are well within the tolerences specified

 

6,000 miles latter I am considering changing them but will not be considering EBC again NOT IMPRESSED

[SteveW]

Hi Zazur, the disk causing the problem on mine is running out a long way its clearly visible to the naked eye

 

However the issue is quite a lot to do with the runout of the hub I have found. After I checked my discs I took them off and got the flatness checked where I work. The discs are all within 0.035mm except for the passenger side rear on its own it is out of spec but only out by 0.1mm.

 

The hub run out however (at approximately half the diameter of the disk) is 0.15 thus at the outer edge of the disk this is causing the disk to run out by 0.30mm (assuming the disk was perfectly flat) however I know thats out by 0.1mm which gives a total runout of approximately 0.4mm.

Since taking the original measuremnets I posted I have rotated the disk to its 'best' position and run out is down to 0.36mm way out of spec but I think with mine the biggest issue is the hub run out not the disc itself.

 

Have you checked your hub runouts this could also be contributing to vibrations.

 

I'll let you know how I get on after my skimming, I've found a local guy who ill skim the turbogrooves.

[Zazur]

Hi SteveW,

 

Thanks for that I will get it looked at

[SteveW]

Hallelula!!!!!

 

I have found someone who will skim drilled and grooved disks who is fairly local!

I've only called about twenty places....

 

Touch wood, but it doesn't look like I'll be having to take a trip to EBC in Northampton.

 

I'll post up details when done, I'm going in tomorrow afternoon.

 

See what the runout are like before and after.

 

Thanks

Steve

[SteveW]

Whoops Double Post