Lost the backend yesterday and skidded

[matth76]

I was driving to Abbey Motorsport yesterday, early morning, no other traffic around and the the conditions were damp. As I was coming round a roundabout I reached my exit which was a dual carriageway. However there is a small sharpish corner on the roundabout exit before the road straightens out. Not sure if anyone knows it - it is the "Washington roundabout" on the A24 - I was coming from Worthing going north. I was applying a small steady amount of power going round the corner ready to accelerate on the straight bit up to 70 on the dual carriageway. I can only assume I started accelerating a fraction too early because the car's backend went out just before I hit the straight section of road. So this was my mistake entirely. It's a given rule: never apply acceleration in a corner but I think I must have done just as I was exiting the corner. I automatically put on opposite lock slightly to compensate and slowly let of the power (although you're supposed to keep the power on so I've heard) and as I did opposite lock the car fishtailed the opposite way, before finally correcting itself and carried on in the correct direction up the dual carriageway. The whole thing happened in less than three seconds. My "ESP" traction control is always on.

 

Thankfully it was a dual carriageway with lots of space, very early in day, there were no other cars around, and my car didn't hit anything. My rear tires still have tread on them although I predict I do need to change them in a few months so this too is a factor. This is the first time this has ever happened in my car since I got it exactly 12 months ago. Normally it sticks to the road like glue in all conditions, even the wet. Just thought I'd let everyone know what happened. I was lucky yesterday but be careful out there in the wet cr*ppy conditions we seem to have all the time at the mo.

[Beavis]

May have also been something on the road like a drop of oil or diesel perhaps?

[paddy0d]

Indead. I hear that powefull rear wheel drive cars notice these patches of oil or desiel more easily

[martinmac]

There is often oil on the roundabouts, especially one with service stations. If it makes you feel better I did something very similar yesterday.

[jerry3167]

Lucky escape matey, glad it turned out ok!

 

Purley Cross is notorius for being really slippy and greasy, and I have felt the rear end wiggle going round it, although, have drifted a little round there when no traffic around.

[matth76]

Thanks guys. Don't know what it was - could have been some oil on the road. I think it was a mixture of road surface, my accelerating slightly too early before the corner had finished and low tread on tires (although the tires do seem fine, just not brand new) I am so glad it turned out ok. As it was happening the only thing that went through my head was "sh*t I've written my car off!" because I remember reading of a member on here who wrote his black 350 off about a year ago when he skidded as he came off a roundabout onto a dual carriageway. Just so lucky it was that time of the day and I was on the inside lane - if I was in the outside lane I think I would have hit the central reservation.

[kazman]

Have you measured the rear tread yet mate? Anything less than about 3mm can be heavily compromised in wet weather.

[rtbiscuit]

sounds like normal damp driving conditions with a car that has a shed load of torque to the rear wheels. ESP did its job as it should do , so alls good

[jerry3167]

Thanks guys. Don't know what it was - could have been some oil on the road. I think it was a mixture of road surface, my accelerating slightly too early before the corner had finished and low tread on tires (although the tires do seem fine, just not brand new) I am so glad it turned out ok. As it was happening the only thing that went through my head was "sh*t I've written my car off!" because I remember reading of a member on here who wrote his black 350 off about a year ago when he skidded as he came off a roundabout onto a dual carriageway. Just so lucky it was that time of the day and I was on the inside lane - if I was in the outside lane I think I would have hit the central reservation.

 

Yep, that was Madmarky, good news is, his Zed has been reborn, and its looking

[Tarmac@TarmacSportz]

Glad you saved her.....

 

Mine twitches a lot but the ESP is my guardian angel

 

I have however noticed that the roads my way are ruined.... in all the time ive been driving ive never known the roads to be this bad. I use the A52 to get to work and the stretch I use has had to reduce the speed limit from 70 - 40 due to huge pot holes... must be because of the big freeze I guess..

 

I went slightly there im afraid

[fakeindian]

Glad you saved her.....

 

Mine twitches a lot but the ESP is my guardian angel

 

I have however noticed that the roads my way are ruined.... in all the time ive been driving ive never known the roads to be this bad. I use the A52 to get to work and the stretch I use has had to reduce the speed limit from 70 - 40 due to huge pot holes... must be because of the big freeze I guess..

 

I went slightly there im afraid

 

yours twitches a lot because you got uneven weight on you wheels as the paint isn't even

 

 

 

 

[Tarmac@TarmacSportz]

Glad you saved her.....

 

Mine twitches a lot but the ESP is my guardian angel

 

I have however noticed that the roads my way are ruined.... in all the time ive been driving ive never known the roads to be this bad. I use the A52 to get to work and the stretch I use has had to reduce the speed limit from 70 - 40 due to huge pot holes... must be because of the big freeze I guess..

 

I went slightly there im afraid

 

yours twitches a lot because you got uneven weight on you wheels as the paint isn't even

 

 

thought you were gonna say it was uneven weight cos im a fat bastaard ha ha

 

 

 

 

[fakeindian]

well......only joking mate.

[matth76]

Glad you saved her.....

 

Mine twitches a lot but the ESP is my guardian angel

 

I have however noticed that the roads my way are ruined.... in all the time ive been driving ive never known the roads to be this bad. I use the A52 to get to work and the stretch I use has had to reduce the speed limit from 70 - 40 due to huge pot holes... must be because of the big freeze I guess..

 

I went slightly there im afraid

 

Totally agree with you about the potholes and state of the English roads. We pay all our taxes each year and they still haven't fixed the roads. If they used proper tarmac in the first place this wouldn't happen after a small bit of snow. Instead they think short term and use cheap stuff and then put a lay of "gravel" on top of it using the road users' cars to flatten it all down and at the same time get some nice stone chips (not to mention cause the potential for skidding). In the "old days" (I'm only 33) they used rollers to flatten it all down and the tarmac actually lasted more than a year. Makes me mad.

[ATTAK Z]

Glad you saved her.....

 

Mine twitches a lot but the ESP is my guardian angel

 

I have however noticed that the roads my way are ruined.... in all the time ive been driving ive never known the roads to be this bad. I use the A52 to get to work and the stretch I use has had to reduce the speed limit from 70 - 40 due to huge pot holes... must be because of the big freeze I guess..

 

I went slightly there im afraid

 

Totally agree with you about the potholes and state of the English roads. We pay all our taxes each year and they still haven't fixed the roads. If they used proper tarmac in the first place this wouldn't happen after a small bit of snow. Instead they think short term and use cheap stuff and then put a lay of "gravel" on top of it using the road users' cars to flatten it all down and at the same time get some nice stone chips (not to mention cause the potential for skidding). In the "old days" (I'm only 33) they used rollers to flatten it all down and the tarmac actually lasted more than a year. Makes me mad.

The pothole problem is caused by using frost susceptible materials in the upper 450 mm of the road construction, usually in the sub-base layers. These materials expand due to the formation of ice crystals in the voids during prolonged periods of cold weather. It's down to cost really .....accountants v engineers again

The fact that the problem lies at a depth below the surface means that frequent repair is necessary year on year ............ at great expense to both the road users and the road owner

[Number86]

I find the Z scary in damp conditions as well. It will let go without any warning or feedback. Can't wait for the dry weather again!

 

My tread is low, but I can't see how that will have any effect in merely damp conditions.

[Madmarky]

Thanks guys. Don't know what it was - could have been some oil on the road. I think it was a mixture of road surface, my accelerating slightly too early before the corner had finished and low tread on tires (although the tires do seem fine, just not brand new) I am so glad it turned out ok. As it was happening the only thing that went through my head was "sh*t I've written my car off!" because I remember reading of a member on here who wrote his black 350 off about a year ago when he skidded as he came off a roundabout onto a dual carriageway. Just so lucky it was that time of the day and I was on the inside lane - if I was in the outside lane I think I would have hit the central reservation.

 

Yep, that was Madmarky, good news is, his Zed has been reborn, and its looking

 

Been there, done that, glad you managed to save it, i had no chance!

[Stew]

I find the Z scary in damp conditions as well. It will let go without any warning or feedback. Can't wait for the dry weather again!

 

My tread is low, but I can't see how that will have any effect in merely damp conditions.

 

I'll hazard a guess that you have RE040s on.....

 

If not then perhaps your driving style doesn't suit the tyre.

[richt]

Does sound like oil or diesel.

[matth76]

I have the stock Bridgestone RE040's. They have (against most negative opinion) up to now been perfect and have lasted well over 12 months and 15k miles. However I was thinking about moving to Vredestein tyres if that is what they're called. Does anyone have them and if so how are they in the wet and how long do they last - also I know Vredestein do different types. Which type is the most recommended for the Z - is it "Sessanta" or are there quite a few other types they offer? I know they are a lot cheaper than Bridgestone but also used on the likes of Corvettes so must be very good.

 

I was looking for some RE050's but Bridgestone dont seem to make the 245 /45/18 size. They do the 40 profile but not 45. They do the front tyre size 225/45/18, just not the rear which is odd - here's Bridgestone's own tyre sizes that they do http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/treads/re050.aspx

 

Do you guys that run RE050's actually use RE050"A" (with an A on the end of the name)? They definitely do the RE050"A"s in the rear wheel size for the 350z. What's the average price per wheel/tyre for an RE050A and how many miles on average would they last? I assume slightly less miles than the RE040's due to their softer compound.

[andlid]

lucky escape by the sounds of things, happy it turned out well! I'd recommend you to go and get some training done or some sort of handle practice done so if / when it happens again you can control it no problem. Personally don't use the ESP stuff since I rather want to be able to drive the car without the slip light coming on and behaving a bit more predictable, seems to happen when there is no need for it and my belief is that you get a false sense of security driving with it on.

[Husky]

A = asymmetric? dunno?

 

the re040's are bloody awefull mate, get rid asap, i had them and they slid everwhere.

[andlid]

I have the stock Bridgestone RE040's. They have (against most negative opinion) up to now been perfect and have lasted well over 12 months and 15k miles. However I was thinking about moving to Vredestein tyres if that is what they're called. Does anyone have them and if so how are they in the wet and how long do they last - also I know Vredestein do different types. Which type is the most recommended for the Z - is it "Sessanta" or are there quite a few other types they offer? I know they are a lot cheaper than Bridgestone but also used on the likes of Corvettes so must be very good.

 

I was looking for some RE050's but Bridgestone dont seem to make the 245 /45/18 size. They do the 40 profile but not 45. They do the front tyre size 225/45/18, just not the rear which is odd - here's Bridgestone's own tyre sizes that they do http://www.bridgestone.com.au/tyres/treads/re050.aspx

 

Do you guys that run RE050's actually use RE050"A" (with an A on the end of the name)? They definitely do the RE050"A"s in the rear wheel size for the 350z. What's the average price per wheel/tyre for an RE050A and how many miles on average would they last? I assume slightly less miles than the RE040's due to their softer compound.

running good year f1s really like them but hard to get the size that I've got on my Z.

[Komier]

Personally I find this to be a common occurrence in the wet conditions. Been particularly bad this year as the roads are still covered in salt and shite making them slicker than ever.

 

I'm also running with the stock bridgestones, and you have to be pretty light on the accelerator on anything remotely resembling a corner, or even pulling out at junctions at an angle. Think I'm going to replace them pretty soon with Toyo's or maybe Falkens (been hearing some good thigns about them despite the budget price).

 

I have to say though I run without the ESP on most of the time, I find it horrendous. When it does kick in it feels like you have completely lost control of the car, it's a horrible feeling, the way it kills the power, and you can't compensate for it instinctively. With it off, if you feel the back end give a little, with a few gentle movements you can normally get it back very quickly and smoothly, the Zed is well behaved if you treat her right .

 

Echoing what a couple of people have said, if you find it a very nerve wracking experience when the back end goes on you in a torquey RWD car like the Zed, might be worth doing a couple hours or half day training somewhere, just to give you a bit more confidence and control if it happens again, which it likely will :-D

 

Glad you all ok! :-D

 

-Dave

[zDan]

I've had two fishtailing incidents in my first year of Z ownership - well, I wouldn't call them incidents, they were more like where you felt the tail going off side but you manage to bring it back in the next fraction of a second, and you held your hearth in your teeth for the next ten minutes. One was low speed in a roundabout with part cobblestone surface in the wet (obvious trap), the other one was speeding up the entrance on a motorway slip road, but was relatively dry. Both cases were on Bridgestones RE040.

 

Ever since changing to Falkens last summer I never got into another fishtail - I may be driving more carefully but the Falkens are definitely softer and stickier than the RE040. Still need to be careful with wet conditions though, no matter what tyre, speed, car, etc.