Tricky-Ricky Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 As every bhp or ftlb is very hard won when it comes to tuning N/A engines, i though i would ask if the std ECU fights and mods made to the induction/plenum or exhaust? Has anyone any experience of using a piggyback on the std ECU? can it be fooled easily to run higher AFRs in and out of closed loop? (for that matter what are closed loop parameters on this engine?) Has anyone got an ECU pin out diagram? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 'm pretty sure you'll find ALL your answers via search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 'm pretty sure you'll find ALL your answers via search. Via the what? Search? WTF is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 'm pretty sure you'll find ALL your answers via search. Sorry but my reason for asking was due to not turning up anything definitive from searching. There is a link to ECU pin outs in technical that appearers to be dead, and i couldn't find anything particularly informative on using piggybacks, only unichip etc which i don't really view as one. I was also hoping to strike up some dialogue with somebody that has fitted and tuned a piggyback ECU on a 350Z, sorry for wanting a chat with a technical type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vagmag Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 no answers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 For a start search for UTEC Haltech HKS F-Con (Not sure if anyone has had it fitted yet but it has certainley been discussed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidS14 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Have a search for Uprev as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanS16 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 'm pretty sure you'll find ALL your answers via search. True, but only look at the newest results as there was a myth about for years that mods make no difference as the ECU cancels them out. It doesn't actually cancel them out, it just keeps them within its preset 'safe' limits. search for posts by Adam@Z1auto.com for some accurate info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Thanks guys, i have had a look at some of the recommend searches, i should have been a little more specific, as i am primarily interested in the use of the Emanage Ultimate on the 350Z. And also interested i talking to somebody with experience of the STD ECU. I have also read of the ECU not allowing adjustment to bolt on mods, it obviously has limitations on the maximum airflow that it will see from the MAF, so i was wondering if a pigyback can get around this? No really interested in ECU remap/reflash as i want to map myself, same applies to Haltec as this i thought was stand alone, and the HKS F-Con is dealer mapping only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Your best bet for E-manage is my350 but even over there most of them ditch it in favour of something better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 the standard ECU is very capable according to abbey m/s and reflashing that shows extremely good gains. for very little effort and cost. Abbey or RS tuning seem to know the most about the standard ECU and would probalbly be your best and first port of call for info. some have used the Haltech but its a lot of cash before you even start playing with it, i can see it being a useful addition for F/I route but not for N/A unless you get one cheap. as for the Emanage ultimate, had some small dealings with it when i had an Mr2 roadster, but not sure how well it would work with the Zed. as said before the Yanks have tried most things and might give you a good idea of where to go. might help if you explain the route you want to take and what your trying to achieve, and then you might get the info your looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Morning , the STD ECU you find in my opinon is far to inteligent to work with a piggyback system, the system uses Widenbands to feedback to running AFR and trims all the time , so even if you intercept say the air flow meter wiring and fudge the AFM voltage( I have been tuning Japanese car for over 10 years) the car will 1st try to tune itself back to the correct AFR then it will put on a CEL light as it will notice it is trying to trimt he fuelling more than it should need to. Re the ignition timing the car is far more intelligent to allow any gain to be had form tuning with a piggyback system , Nissan have tuned the car using fuel burn rates , we can tune the ignition a little for N/A and re work the ignition map completely for a F/I set up , but you have to work the Low Detonation map as well as the High Detonation map as the car works between the 2. Haltech isnt a piggy back system in the real world , it allows you to map the fuel and ignition direct as well as the cam maps, but still allows the cam bus system to work properly. You can buy a UPREV system to allow you to tweak you own maps but the UK cars cant be lived mapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Morning , the STD ECU you find in my opinon is far to inteligent to work with a piggyback system, the system uses Widenbands to feedback to running AFR and trims all the time , so even if you intercept say the air flow meter wiring and fudge the AFM voltage( I have been tuning Japanese car for over 10 years) the car will 1st try to tune itself back to the correct AFR then it will put on a CEL light as it will notice it is trying to trimt he fuelling more than it should need to. Re the ignition timing the car is far more intelligent to allow any gain to be had form tuning with a piggyback system , Nissan have tuned the car using fuel burn rates , we can tune the ignition a little for N/A and re work the ignition map completely for a F/I set up , but you have to work the Low Detonation map as well as the High Detonation map as the car works between the 2. Haltech isnt a piggy back system in the real world , it allows you to map the fuel and ignition direct as well as the cam maps, but still allows the cam bus system to work properly. You can buy a UPREV system to allow you to tweak you own maps but the UK cars cant be lived mapped. Thanks for the info interesting, So are you're saying the std ECU is a true self learner, and uses a wideband lambda as std? if so i take it that it uses live monitoring and has constant feedback all through the RPM and load range, which precludes signal fudging. Also do you mean that the UK ECU is not a self learner, and as such would probably be more amenable to signal fudging? Interesting about the det maps, would make piggybacks even more of a problem, have you got a link to more info on the UPREV system please? Is the US ECU different? as the us guys seem to use piggybacks a lot when going F/I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 UK ECU is a self learner like all the Z ecu,s but the UK ECU cant be lived mapped thou. so i take it that it uses live monitoring and has constant feedback all through the RPM and load range, which precludes signal fudging Yes you have a trim map which is in AFR and a compensation map for wide open throttle maps. Ignition side of the ECU is even more complicated , using burn time not spark timing figure. We have used piggy backs, standalone ECU,s and everything else available. Have a look at the Uprev site tells you everything you need to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Thanks! one further question, does the ECU use the Bosch LSU4 lambda sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Nope , uses Nissan,s own 4 wire sensor I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 Just go a hold of a workshop manual, interesting stuff, the ECU is a clever little bugger, but it doesn't run a wide band setup, however it does have a dual lambda feedback system, mainly for emissions, but it could make closed loop and even map based tuning interesting, the main problems i can see after a quick look is down to the OBD2 running constant active fault monitoring, but i'm sure that can be dealt with, just got to do some more reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 the UK STD lambda,s give a very good AFR reading , nigh on spot on the same as my Motec AFR on my dyno , they read right down to 9.0 AFR as well , so I dont think the are narrow bands, you looking @ a US or UK wiring diagrsm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 The manual i have is presumably for US spec, now is this same as JDM or UK? The lambdas in this are definitely 0-1v switching type, not 0-5v wideband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 Thats a early US 276bhp car then , the early JDM car was narrow band as well, both the US and JDM 276bhp car,s went wide band around 2005, but all the UK 276bhp cars where wide band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Yes just looked at a 2006 manual and its wideband, so anything US or UK is likely to be a PITA to do anything with the ECU then, did the JDM ever change to wideband after a certain year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark@Abbey m/s Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Thats a early US 276bhp car then , the early JDM car was narrow band as well I think all the 275bhp JDM cars used narrow band O2 sensors , would need to look at the Nissan Fast system to give you 100% answer thou. I have run my JDM open loop using HKS F-con Pro, which I feel made the car more responsive on the track but since going over to the Uprev system I can even control the closed loop AFR which gives the car awesome drivability. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Thanks for the info had a quick look at the Uprev system (Osiris Tuner), looks pretty good, but i notice that its only licenced for the one ECU, also doesn't include some of the more advanced controls for things like temp based timing and fuel control, or individual cylinder adjustment, and also couldn't find anything about adding your own choice of injectors or custom MFA, or MAP should you want to go F/I. Think i would prefer the EMU or even a MAP2, and coupled with something like the LM-2 which will also read OBD2 besides wideband O2 and logging, should work just as well on the 350Z as the LM-1 has on my Supra. But for me its the more hands on the better, however i can see the usefulness and attraction of the Osiris Tuner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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