BulletMagnet Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Have you tried Dixcel discs? In particular the DAV versions with added cooling vents on the hubs? Dixcel also do matched carbon pads. These are discs and pads used in the japanese touring car series, so might just be able to stand up to your aggressive driving style. I have the Dixcel slotted front discs and stopping power is great. Contact Dixon at DMS for info and prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Never raced or rallied....... I have seen similar cracking on DBAs but they were well used and came off a car that has a lot more speed to shave off before going round corners. Out of interest, you had race tuition or had a circuit instructor sit with you Greekman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 cool down lap is a lap with almost no braking. if you go too slow they wont cool down as there is not enough air True, but you should also be doing a speed that means you do not have to touch the brakes at all: I'll admit I've never done Mallory, but every other track I've done (Anglesey old & new, Bedford GT, Rockingham etc) it's certainly possible to both keep a good speed but also never touch the brakes. Still, that shouldn't cause the issues shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekman Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Out of interest, you had race tuition or had a circuit instructor sit with you Greekman? It was a ferrari experience at silverstone. nothing in depth....but the guy was great and as i was advanced comparing to the others he did tell me lots of things....i wouldnt say i am a race driver now tho.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BulletMagnet Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Out of interest, you had race tuition or had a circuit instructor sit with you Greekman? It was a ferrari experience at silverstone. nothing in depth....but the guy was great and as i was advanced comparing to the others he did tell me lots of things....i wouldnt say i am a race driver now tho.... But wouldn't it be correct to hazard a guess that the Ferrari experience is more bespoke to the machinery used? If the Ferraris have carbon ceramics fitted and you then try to use the same braking techniques on the Zed, then I'm sure no matter what discs and pads you use will wear out pretty fast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Have you tried Dixcel discs? In particular the DAV versions with added cooling vents on the hubs?Dixcel also do matched carbon pads. These are discs and pads used in the japanese touring car series, so might just be able to stand up to your aggressive driving style. I have the Dixcel slotted front discs and stopping power is great. Contact Dixon at DMS for info and prices. I have the DAV carbon bad boys. Still perfect! Well worth a try if you don't fancy a BBK just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam@Z1auto.com Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Motul brake fluid (that rf one) was used when i had them changed at 17500mls ish....the whole system was flushed.cool down lap is a lap with almost no braking. if you go too slow they wont cool down as there is not enough air. and i know better than use the handbrake on hot disks me thinks.... mallory park guys is really hard on tyres...which means that after 7-8 laps of drifting round the hairpin and the parabolica the tyres turn into mash.... and then you have to stop!! I was thinking that the ESP could mess the brakes up as it constantly applies the brakes and it doesnt let them cool down when driving daft on a track....but the ESP was off!!!!! in fact its always off!!!!! I dont remember what series the disks are....got them from envy...and the EBC previously from Phil... i did tell them tho that i wanted brakes for track days....and i never asked how much.... 22500mls ish...brembo gone, ebc turbo groove gone, DBA gone...plus pads and fluid each time...and on top of that clutch and flywheel as the clutch was about to die...oh and 4 full sets of tyres.... The Motul fluid (RBF600) is ok for club outings, but if you are very hard on the brakes, you'll quickly overheat it. The stuff I was referring to is Endless's RF650. Here in the US, all cars with factory Brembo calipers have VDC. It is never really "off" even if the button is turned off. It still will kick in when the car is pushed. The non brembo cars (which use a traditional traction control, or nothing at all in the case of the 'base') don't have this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Interesting about the difference between the two brake fluids you mention Adam: Is there that much of a difference between them? I only ask as I'm running the Motul stuff right now and have found it to be much better than stock, however I'm prepared to swap it out for the Endless if the difference is that much. My only query relates to the comparative differences in the boiling points: Motul Dry: 312°c Wet: 216°c Endless Dry: 323°c Wet: 218°c There's only 11°c between the two at dry, and just 2°c when wet: Surely that can't make that much difference? Not questioning you, rather I'm trying to learn as my knowledge of brake fluids isn't what it should be. PS my Ti shims are in the country now, just need to arrange to go and pick them up, thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam@Z1auto.com Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Motul RBF600 Dry = (312 C / 593 F) Wet (216 C / 420 F) Endless RF650 Dry = (327 C / 622 F) Wet (217 C / 424 F) But, the #'s don't tell the full story Fluids have another property that is crucial - compressibility. This was a little blurb from Endless "With our RF-650 brake fluid being standard original equipment on all Porsche GT3 Cup cars (Yes. Standard equipment from Porsche.), a lot of various teams in the US have been in close contact with me regarding it. Most have never heard of it before Porsche started using it as an OE part 2 years ago. Most of them had been using Castrol SRF. What these GT3 Cup car teams have been telling me is that they’d put the fluid in the system, bleed it, and then go out on track. 5 or 10 minutes into the session the drivers would report the brake pedal feeling soft. So, they’d bring the cars in and check for air only to find none in the system. The actual issue ended up being compressibility. In short, different brake fluids compress more than others which accounted for the drivers reporting a soft pedal. The teams tried a bunch of different fluids before realizing they should try ours (reason being they had never heard of Endless and they didn’t know where to get it). The teams tried AP, Motul, and others even I had never heard of, all still ending up with the same issue. Finally, when the GT3 Cup cars ran at the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Canada, they talked to the F1 teams. What they found out is that there are only two brake fluids used in Formula 1; one being Endless. Turns out the Brembo fluid and ours are the only ones without severe compressibility issues." BAR also runs this exact fluid as well on the F1 cars. The other nice thing - metal containers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Interesting, never considered that side of things. Thanks for that Adam, I may just have to give this stuff a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Interesting, never considered that side of things. Thanks for that Adam, I may just have to give this stuff a try. Yes interesting read. I assume you have confirmed this behavoir Adam, and thats why you use it? Also is there any way you can turn off VDC? I assume thats what the UK cars have as standard. Could this cause discs to be warped on tight and twisty tracks? I seem to have managed to kill my discs at 2 airfield days, where they run short and twisty tracks, with some longer straights. Other (non Zed) cars dont seem to have a problem with this. I was thinking about a BBK to solve it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Motul RBF 660 is worth a go That is what I now run as the 600 did boil with me. RBF 660 = DRY 325C and 205C WET. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-B Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Good Work Chris Im one for brakes too Cant say I wreck them as quick as you though. I have cracked discs before in my Audi. I use the DBA 5000 series two-peice rotar, done a few trackdays on these along with ds2500 pads, Was doing 50-60 min sessions at brands (indy circuit, very hard on brakes) they were capable of doing 10-12 really hard laps 57-59secs before getting a bit hot then 3 slower laps and back on it Maybe you should try a split rotor disc to get rid of a bit more heat? My brother has the single peice dbas on his 320bhp astra vxr and has also managed to kill them in 5k on the road so maybe there not quite up to scratch for what we want them to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam@Z1auto.com Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Interesting, never considered that side of things. Thanks for that Adam, I may just have to give this stuff a try. Yes interesting read. I assume you have confirmed this behavoir Adam, and thats why you use it? Also is there any way you can turn off VDC? I assume thats what the UK cars have as standard. Could this cause discs to be warped on tight and twisty tracks? I seem to have managed to kill my discs at 2 airfield days, where they run short and twisty tracks, with some longer straights. Other (non Zed) cars dont seem to have a problem with this. I was thinking about a BBK to solve it We're now using it in all our cars here. It is more money than the Motul, but it's way less than the Castrol SRF, so it's been good for us. Plus, if so many high profile teams trust it, and they have unlimited budgets, it's an easy decision for us I've never really looked into fully disabling VDC. Only one of our Z's here has it, and it's not a track car, so it has not been an issue. The best thing may be something like the Whiteline controller. I've seen some articles in Option, etc about hardwiring a switch in, but I've never really studied it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Ok, thanks Adam. Will definately have some of that Endless fluid next time around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adriank Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 I agree with the Dixcel comments. I have the DAV, FCR Carbon discs and matching pads. They are designed for track use and come with a no fade on track guarentee. I have been realy impressed with mine, give them a try Greekman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekman Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 Now then, i defo need pads, disks and those titanium seals..... Quite interested in Andiank's carbon ones and DBA 5000 series or better....prices to be considered as well....who to contact??? And btw....i defo need those adapters or something for the nismo exhaust.... that CEL light keeps coming on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 i defo need those adapters or something for the nismo exhaust.... that CEL light keeps coming on.... What's the code? I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess you're running either decat pipes or you're got an exhaust leak prior to the cats themselves. And they're titanium shims, not seals: I assume that was a typo though. And you might want to try Dixon at DMS for the Dixcel stuff, like people have already mentioned in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekman Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 i defo need those adapters or something for the nismo exhaust.... that CEL light keeps coming on.... What's the code? I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess you're running either decat pipes or you're got an exhaust leak prior to the cats themselves. And they're titanium shims, not seals: I assume that was a typo though. And you might want to try Dixon at DMS for the Dixcel stuff, like people have already mentioned in this thread. No m8. Changed the OEM cat back with a nismo one and this is when the light started coming on....will be posting the code soon but it shouldnt have to do with exhaust leak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I can guarantee that code has nothing to do with changing the backbox then, unless you nudged a joint or something. There's no sensors past the O2s in the cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekman Posted September 27, 2009 Author Share Posted September 27, 2009 I can guarantee that code has nothing to do with changing the backbox then, unless you nudged a joint or something. There's no sensors past the O2s in the cats. Changed the air intakes to nismo ones as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbiscuit Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 have you actually read what the code is as it could be something comepletly different to what you think. if you changed the intakes at the same time it may well be something to do with the throttle body, whats your location as someone might have an OBDII reader to check it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greekman Posted September 28, 2009 Author Share Posted September 28, 2009 One last thing... i noticed today that my rear calipers have a dark red color instead of gold like the front ones. Is that normal or i am being paranoid??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Mine are as gold as the fronts on a UK GT-equipped car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 One last thing... i noticed today that my rear calipers have a dark red color instead of gold like the front ones. Is that normal or i am being paranoid??? Got a pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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