Am i being unreasonable?

[rtbiscuit]

i recently had my sat nav fitted and although they didn't fit it how i wanted to due to size issues they did fit it and i have been happy with that side of the work. What i have slightly struggled with is that i bought a brand new retractable cubby for them to use. they weren't able to and told me they had filed it to try and fit the unit in it but it wasn't possible and they had put it back in the box. i later sold the cubby stupidly without checking it only to get an upset buyer tell me the unit had been butchered. i refunded the buyer and got the unit back. what they had done was remove the whole front of the fasia (badly with a craft knife). and they had also snapped the side of the fasia and used a soldering iron to glue it back together. none of which they had told me. so i emailed them to explain my disapointment and asked for some kind of compensation for or towards the unit. especially as it was just over £100.

 

here is a copy of my email and there responce. have i been unreasonable in what i asked, are they right in there response or am i right in pushing for something?

 

..................................................................................................................................................................

my email

 

Dear Simon Wallis,

 

I recently visited your company to have a Pioneer Avic F500BT fitted to my 350z, admittedly it wasn't fitted how i was expecting but fully understand the limitations of what can and cannot be done. The unit works fine and does exactly what its meant to do and that i am very happy with. What i am not happy with and very annoyed about is that i supplied your fitters with a brand new centre cubby to fit the satnav into. I ordered it brand new from the factory and had to have it shipped in from Japan as they don't make them in this country. The Item cost me Just over £85 exc.. shipping etc and was ordered from JDM performance.co.uk here is a link to the item http://jdmperformance.co.uk/item_detail ... odID=57881 .

 

I was told it would be possible to fit it into this cubby and replace the old one currently in the car, during installation it was found that the item would not work with my Satnav and that it wasn't possible to adjust either item to make it work. i was told that the fitters had done about 30 min of filing and that it wasn't going to fit, so they had put it away and fitted it how it is now, with out the new cubby. If this was the case i would not have had a problem, i understand not everything goes to plan, and sometimes things have to be changed; what i can't believe is what actually had been done.

 

The centre cubby i supplied you with has been absolutely butchered, the whole front section has been cut out wonky; this doesn't make sense as the original screen fitted behind it fine and only required a small oval cut on one side to allow for the knob, the unit has been snapped, and then quickly gummed back together using a soldering iron; which no one even told me about as if it was being hidden worse still no decent plastic cements were used, and the soldering iron repair will have left the plastic brittle and as soon as any pressure is to be applied then it will snap., there are bits cut and missing, but with no real reason why, as the sections that they have removed, didn't need to be. I am a technology teacher, and teach kids how to use tools and the 30 min of filing that was talked about is definitely not evident, the damage done to the unit was completely unnecessary and the parts that did require removing were still there. i was hoping to sell the unit on to some one who could use it to recoup the original money i had spent to supply your business with the right parts but all I'm left with is scrap plastic worth nothing.

 

i would like compensation towards the unit and the damage done to it. I know you have a good reputation and I'm sure you have built that up over the last 25 years through good work and customer service. i am member of several performance car forums and would like to be able to recommend your services onto other users, but at the moment i don't feel that i can due to the damager caused. I hope you can understand my point of view and that we can come to some kind of agreement. i will attach photos of some of the damage for you, and i am happy to bring the item in for you to look at.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Richard Thompson

 

....................................................................................................................................................................

their response.

 

Dear Mr Thompson,

 

I was the person who under took your booking, installation and handover of your installation.

 

First of all Dave Wallis Car Audio ltd, Never specified the system you had installed or were never consulted on the equipment chosen.

 

The Dash board trim was supplied to Dave Wallis Car Audio ltd and was out-sourced by yourself as an uneducated guess to its compatibility in this installation.

 

Upon the date of installation on the 29th May 2009, you briefed myself on this installation, showing me what you were expecting based on your own decision to purchase an Avic F500BT and an imported dashboard component.

 

My exact words regarding the install of the screen to the dash board component. "It looks as though it should fit however you never know for sure until you start the install".

 

At this time you never placed any sanctions on what was expected should the component not be compatible.

 

While attempting to mount the screen into the component much filing and trimming was essential to ascertain whether the screen was going to fit. The Screens only viable method of installation was as a surface mount not behind the trim as you mentioned in you email but never mentioned upon installation.

 

Had the screen of fitted we hold fitting kits to dress all of the filing so the install would be finished to a high standard.

 

With regards to our filing methods there are no methods in which the work can be carried out without leaving the trim scarred on this install.

 

In total over an hour was spent trying hard to match the two components together, which Dave Wallis Car Audio ltd had no part in specifying.

 

We do have a fantastic reputation in town for over 36 years and your case has no bearing on our ability. Our customer service goes far beyond what is required from us.

 

I feel sympathy that you have an expensive trim which has no use, However as an adult you made your own decision to research the products that you purchased and had your own visions to its compatibility.

 

The final result of the installation is one finished and handed to you where our services could be recommended.

 

Dave Wallis Car Audio ltd, has no liability towards the Trim in question, and its upsetting that you feel as though compensation is justified.

 

The compensation culture which is amongst us today is not making us responsible for our own bad judgement. It just makes us feel as though someone else is always to blame. I hope as a school Teacher that you agree this is something children should learn not to do !

 

I hope you understand our position on your complaint and that you may feel any future services we offer is obtainable.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Simon Wallis.

[LRF4N]

do u have photos mate?

[Rob_Quads]

Sorry but I think its just tough luck.

 

The fact is you gave them a trim which you hoped would fit to which they said they would try to.. they were unable. Unfortunately a side effect is the cubby would have been 'butchered' in an attempt to fit it. IF you did not want them to cut the trim you should have said to them IF you don't think you can fit it don't touch the cubby at all. Without this statement how are they meant to know they can't damage it to try and get it to fit?

 

Number 1 bit of advice if your using an Audio shop to install stuff - check with them what fitment/facia THEY recommend, you can always suggest something but if they prefer certain makes etc best to stick to them

[ZMANALEX]

No you are not being unreasonable Rich, but principles can be costly and very time consuming.

[Septic]

I don't think you're being unreasonable. Clearly you paid for an expensive trim which is now damaged as a result of the fitter's actions.

 

Under S13, Sale of goods and Supply of Services Act 1982- a supplier of a service acting in the course of business has to carry out that service with reasonable care and skill. I'm not in a position to comment about the reasonableness of Simon's work but there may be others in his position who are.

 

Its an unfortunate position to be in but I understand your concerns. The whole point made by Simon about compensation culture being rampant in society today seems somewhat unnecessary. Clearly you paid for something...they were tasked with fitting the item...the item is now damaged.

[rtbiscuit]

do u have photos mate?

 

they are on my other computer, will take some new ones to show what they have done.

 

i reckon i can get it back to saleable state, i can make a new fasia at work with the laser cutter and bond it in. the rest of the stuff that they did will be hidden once fitted. might even make a carbon fibre facia for it.

[LRF4N]

agree with wots said above but if like u say the fascia was butchered and woulda given a poor finish then ur not being unreasonable at all, whether they used it or not

[rtbiscuit]

agree with wots said above but if like u say the fascia was butchered and woulda given a poor finish then ur not being unreasonable at all, whether they used it or not

 

well they reckoned they would have added their own finishing fasia to finish it off.

 

might just do the same then and see if any one on here wants it.

[tmJak]

I think the only thing they did wrong was not tell you what would happen when they tried to fit it. When you fit aftermarket parts there is often some modification needed, unless in some cases where the aftermarket part is made specifically for the car. You wouldn't be complaining if they had managed to fit the unit as you wanted, and perhaps if they had told you clearly that it would be damaged and might still not fit there wouldn't have been an issue. IMO I'd be surprised if you were compensated, even if you took it to small claims court.

[rtbiscuit]

I think the only thing they did wrong was not tell you what would happen when they tried to fit it. When you fit aftermarket parts there is often some modification needed, unless in some cases where the aftermarket part is made specifically for the car. You wouldn't be complaining if they had managed to fit the unit as you wanted, and perhaps if they had told you clearly that it would be damaged and might still not fit there wouldn't have been an issue. IMO I'd be surprised if you were compensated, even if you took it to small claims court.

 

i had no issue with them trying to adjust it, thats what we discussed, but they didn't do any of the adjustment that was talked about.and like you said it was the point of not telling me or discussing it with me. i could understand if i wasnt there, but i sat in the show room for the 3 hours that they took. what annoys me is they told me they had spent an hour filing it. but i teach woodwork metal work and i work with plastics and i know what 1 hours filing looks like. they did 30 secs of filing and then broke out the soldering iron to remove bits. thats fair enough, but the removal of the front of the fasia wasn't needed. it was the right size. i don't like being taken for a mug. i know how it should have fitted and what is and isn't possible with the materials. i would have understood if they brook it and told me but it was the sneekyness of putting it in the box and saying nothing i dno't like. i even know when they broke it as it was the time that they suddenly shut the door and went very quiet.

[Martin W]

I think ZMAN summarised it.

 

Been there, done that...

It bugs sure, but move on mate

[tmJak]

You've swayed me, that does sound really annoying now. Would it be worth taking it to them and asking them to explain why they had to make the specific damage they did? Emails are ok but so much can be lost in translation. Or maybe you could email the pics to them to illustrate your point

[Zednick666]

Sorry to hear your troubles bud, it's a tough one though.

 

I've had a few installs done, the last an Avic-X1R in the Golf, installed by RAM audio. Whenever I take anything to them for fitting, that I've sourced elsewhere, they always make a point of saying if they haven't supplied the unit themselves, then they are not bound by any waranty and are not responsible for any problems which may occur - any extra work would be chargeable.

 

I think it's pretty common practice to be fair.

 

Though to add insult to injury, that response letter from Simon Wallis is very bloody patronising IMO. Would've got my back up a bit but i'm a fiery little sod lol

[BulletMagnet]

I don't want to sound like a total dick, but I took a look at the pics you took pre-install viewtopic.php?f=27&t=22643

Personally, I was expecting most of the framework to be shaven or trimmed in some way.

But, you have to think about why the cubby ends where it ends and why there is an overlap between the F500BT and the cubby frame.

Parts are made to fit a certain space, hence why some modders are asking what size screen would best fit the cubby space.

Also it was a cubby supplied by yourself and with that you asked them to fit the F500BT with your supplied cubby, and in doing so basically allowed them to try and fit by any means neccesary.

They tried, failed and then fitted the F500BT the best way they saw fit without using your supplied cubby.

Yes, you should have checked the cubbys condition before you left the premises, but I am guessing you didn't.

Whatever happens with the cubby afterwards, whether you chuck it in the bin or try to sell it to recoup funds does not fall into the fitters responsibility once you left the shop.

 

I'm not trying to take the mick, just saying what I think about what I see.

I don't know hoe butchered the retractable cubby is, but if it was me, I'd have alook and see how the F500BT is currently fitted, then possibly cut the retainig section off and match the cut on the retractable cubbly, then plastic weld the two pars together and file smooth the joins.

 

Like I said, I'm not trying to take the mick, merely trying to help make the best out of a bad situation.

[rtbiscuit]

No BM it's a totally fair point. It was my first dealings with a fitter. I suppose I'm a victim of my own knowledge. I know how I Would have fitted it and don't understand why they did what they did. Just doesn't make sense. But at the end of the day I have the skills, workshop and materials to repair it properly. I suppose I was just looking for acknoledgement of a task done badly. What iforgot to mention and I didn't tell them was that they quoted me for 4 hours work. Did the job In 3 but still charged me for 4 hours labour. Only reason i know is that o was sat there and counted. I think at the end of the day I either need to be more specific with my Instructions or go somewhere else. Most jobs I can do myself. I think when I finally change the head unit, I'll do it myself.

[BulletMagnet]

Maybe they were cowboy builders in a previous life.

Like I have said before, I was going to use them for possibly fitting a HU inot my Zed, because I used to go to them before and they were good.

But as soon as I asked about steering wheel controls, they said I would loose them, and this is after srobrien done his install and didn't loose the controls, I decided I'm better off trying it myself.

[Sarnie]

My take on it is that they have not done a great deal wrong. They tried to fit a part you gave them for the install. It didn't fit and got altered in the process making it unsaleable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

However. The last three or four paragraphs are a total **** take.

 

"You made that decision as an adult"

"as a teacher"

"Our customer service goes far beyond what is required from us."

"The compensation culture which is amongst us today is not making us responsible for our own bad judgement. It just makes us feel as though someone else is always to blame. I hope as a school Teacher that you agree this is something children should learn not to do"

 

Who the **** does he think he is the patronising ****!

 

You may have gave the part to them, they may have butchered it but what kind of a customer service is that? you were only asking for compensation to a % of the £100 not a full refund plus damages! This experience will steer you, and possibly others, away from them for good (losing potentially thousands of pounds) but they would rather demean you than cough up a few quid.....

[RobD7]

My take on it is that that they have not done a great deal wrong. They tried to fit a part you gave them for the install. It didn't fit and got altered in the process making it unsaleable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

However. The last three or four paragraphs are a total **** take. "You made that decision as an adult" "as a teacher"

 

Yeah that does sound a little patronising

[rtbiscuit]

My take on it is that that they have not done a great deal wrong. They tried to fit a part you gave them for the install. It didn't fit and got altered in the process making it unsaleable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

However. The last three or four paragraphs are a total **** take.

 

"You made that decision as an adult"

"as a teacher"

"Our customer service goes far beyond what is required from us."

"The compensation culture which is amongst us today is not making us responsible for our own bad judgement. It just makes us feel as though someone else is always to blame. I hope as a school Teacher that you agree this is something children should learn not to do"

 

Who the **** does he think he is the patronising ****!

 

You may have gave the part to them, they may have butchered it but what kind of a customer service is that? you were only asking for compensation to a % of the £100 not a full refund plus damages! This experience will steer you, and possibly others, away from them for good (losing potentially thousands of pounds) but they would rather demean you than cough up a few quid.....

 

i think you hit the nail on the head. i want to email them back, not to whine about the fact they won't compensate me, but more for the fact to say fair enough it was my decision, i was a bit nieve, i should have been clearer, you were only doing what you could with he items supplied. but there is no need to flipping patronise me blah blah, so on so on etc etc.

 

i'm rubbish at writing letters, i'll have to leave it a while and think about how i'm goig to respond.

[LRF4N]

agree with sarnie about how c0cky this guy was being in his response. if i was to reply to a complaint id explain myself fully and be as polite as possible, esp in the first response. not put my head up my own arse as far as it goes like this guy

[Sarnie]

He should have replied something like:

 

Hi Richard,

 

I'm am very sorry to hear of your displeasure with our recent services. We pride ourselves on our reputation that has taken 36 years to achieve. I'd like to think that we treat every complaint with the utmost respect and will apply any actions that we see fit.

 

However, it seems that we have had a slight miscommunication upon what was to happen to the part you provided us with. It was our every intention to use it to fit your item, but even after careful manipulation it could not be achieved. I was not aware that we could not try to alter it from its original state, but also we never had any explicit instructions from you to the contrary either.

 

As a valued customer I hope you understand our situation and agree that it was neither of our faults. We take all complaints seriously and want every client to leave having had a positive experience of our services. In todays current climate, word of mouth, can make or break a business so we would like to offer a contribution of +/- £50 and would hope that that would be satifactory for both parties and enable you to feel confident not only to return to us but also to recommend us to any friend or forum associates you may have any dealings with.

 

Cheers

 

Dick Wad Audio Services Ltd

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not blaming your issue on todays compensation culture and basically telling you not to pursue this route as its not a good example to be setting as a Teacher..........

[BulletMagnet]

I wouldn't even bother writing another e-mail to him.

He is obviously far too set in his ways and confident of his reputation.

Just walk away knowing you are the better person.

These kind of people are best left alone with their egos, until they find themselves alone.

 

As a teacher you should know that you shouldn't get dragged down to his level......he'll only beat you with experience...

[rtbiscuit]

He should have replied something like:

 

Hi Richard,

 

I'm am very sorry to hear of your displeasure with our recent services. We pride ourselves on our reputation that has taken 36 years to achieve. I'd like to think that we treat every complaint with the utmost respect and will apply any actions that we see fit.

 

However, it seems that we have had a slight miscommunication upon what was to happen to the part you provided us with. It was our every intention to use it to fit your item, but even after careful manipulation it could not be achieved. I was not aware that we could not try to alter it from its original state, but also we never had any explicit instructions from you to the contrary either.

 

As a valued customer I hope you understand our situation and agree that it was neither of our faults. We take all complaints seriously and want every client to leave having had a positive experience of our services. In todays current climate, word of mouth, can make or break a business so we would like to offer a contribution of +/- £50 and would hope that that would be satifactory for both parties and enable you to feel confident not only to return to us but also to recommend us to any friend or forum associates you may have any dealings with.

 

Cheers

 

Dick Wad Audio Services Ltd

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not blaming your issue on todays compensation culture and basically telling you not to pursue this route as its not a good example to be setting as a Teacher..........

 

dammit sarnie, see if i had had that reply i would have been happy, even if he only offered me a tenner at least the tone was right, it annoyed me his response was so up his own arse. i suppose he might have got the same impression from me as i was questioning his work and using my position to justify my claims of poor workmanship. maybe he was just throwing it back at me.

[Sarnie]

I have 3 eBay shops and get sooooooooo wound up by some peoples complaints and certain words are like a red flag to a bull. I guarantee he got riled by:

 

Very annoyed

absolutely butchered

wonky

snapped

quickly gummed back

no decent plastic cements used

made plastic brittle

damage

completely unnececcesary

scrap plastic worth nothing

 

All very aggressive language all indicating that his work is either sub standard or poor at best. What he is doing is fighting fire with fire, responding in the same light as he feels you have attacked him. He probably feels backed into a corner too with you mentioning forums and reputations etc.

 

I'd respond with a very softly softly reply and try to gain a middle ground of responsibility e.g you didn't say he could butcher it but he never said he was going to leave the part unusable etc? if that fails hit him with trading standards, local press, internet petitions and a ****ing road block outside his place for a week!!

[rtbiscuit]

I have 3 eBay shops and get sooooooooo wound up by some peoples complaints and certain words are like a red flag to a bull. I guarantee he got riled by:

 

Very annoyed

absolutely butchered

wonky

snapped

quickly gummed back

no decent plastic cements used

made plastic brittle

damage

completely unnececcesary

scrap plastic worth nothing

 

All very aggressive language all indicating that his work is either sub standard or poor at best. What he is doing is fighting fire with fire, responding in the same light as he feels you have attacked him. He probably feels backed into a corner too with you mentioning forums and reputations etc.

 

I'd respond with a very softly softly reply and try to gain a middle ground of responsibility e.g you didn't say he could butcher it but he never said he was going to leave the part unusuable etc? if that fails hit him with trading standards, local press, internet petions and a ****ing road block outside his place for a week!!

 

 

thanks for the advice

 

i'm rubbish at writing letters, but i was too chicken to phone direct as i didn't know how to phrase things with out blurting out "f*ing c**K" in a sentence. i thought writing might be a softer approach where i can think about what i can say and re word it several times. where as on the phone once you've said it you can't take it back, at least in a letter/email, you can delete and re type before sending.

 

 

hey sarnie do yuo want to write my full responce for me