gavinv6 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 hey guys and gals, im new here and just wanna ask a bit of a dumb question, how does a vq based (vq35de i beleive) works rally raid engine stand up against a standard unit? and would it be of any benifit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Benefit to what? Stick a post in the Intro section to say hello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 well with them both being basically the same. would the raid engine be stronger/lighter blah blah blah. i cant find any info about the internal gubbins of a works raid engine only that its vq based. naturally aspirated and 3.5ltrs. so im guessing vq35de. and i dont wanna pull it apart as id probably end up breaking something with my very limited knowledge. im not refering to the rally raid version of the street legal navara, thats just a tarted up navara, i have the engine removed from an actual nissan works rally raid vehical, and was trying to figure out if it would be a better unit over the standard version. if any of that makes sense, apologies if it dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 You'd need to know the weight, the differing internals, the output and where the power was being made, and a rough guess at the lifespan of the unit in question. After you find all that out you can start working out if it's any better than the stock engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 You'd need to know the weight, the differing internals, the output and where the power was being made, and a rough guess at the lifespan of the unit in question. After you find all that out you can start working out if it's any better than the stock engine. the weight of the engine is pretty light, since 2 of us lifted it with ease. the output is very similar to standard spec but making its peak figures slightly lower down. as for lifespan, shouldnt it last longer since re-designed to take a whacking across the daker rally. and although its probably of no importance its also fitted with a dry sump kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 :lol: Well, after detailed specs like that then it must be perfect for the Zed! Go weigh it. Get it dynoed to get exact power/torque graphs. It might be stronger on the outside to prevent any big whacks, but if it's designed for competition then it may only be able to last 10K miles instead of 250K miles. Dry sump is good, but you need far more details on exactly what is inside the block before any kind of reasoned judgement can be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 the weight of the engine is pretty light, since 2 of us lifted it with ease. What You must be some strong boys down there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 ok so i cant get specs. which is why im here asking questions. and i admit i know nothing about nissans, i just have in my possesion what is supposed to be a vq based 3.5l n/a v6 rally engine, and the obvious option was you 350 blokes since you run the same type of engine. i have a couple of questions if thats ok and hopefully it wont cause to much for you to laugh at me for, anyway, upon starting to dismantle the engine, i have discovoured that the throttle body is not a typical single butterfly one. it is actually a twin roller design with 6 staggered inlets at the top (barrels?) and 6 individual outlets at the bottom. with all the internals machined smoothed (there are still machine marks inside). (i can up a pic if its needed). it is, well was, mated to the heads (which also have machined smooth inlet ports) along the centre cavity with 5mm acrylic spacer gaskets either side. am i totally wrong in thinking this is not the correct 350 throttle body, since all the searching i have done has only every thrown up single butterfly types. and any roller tb i found has always been a race spec aftermarket one, apologies if im a total numpty and getting that wrong but as i said i have zero nissan knowledge and only miniscule more mechanical. im just trying to shed some light on what is supposed to be a vq35de lump sitting in my garage, and the codes/numbers on the bits dont match any nissan parts. i can add these if anyone is interested. the nearest match i have found is by using part of the hand stamped code on the cams which is 020, and this throws up nismo bits. the cam has 21567nsm 020 or 27567nsm 020 with ex or in on it but the whole number dont match nothing. ok end of question, please try not to take the pee, to much, even though my use of mechanical terms and obvious lack of knowledge is laughable at minimum. but ive tried to add as much detail as i can this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 The roller type tb that you have is indeed race spec. Is it cable operated or fly by ? Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I am assuming that you know the background to the Nissan Works Rally Raid involvement in Motorsport and that the originall engine spec. would be as below. Nissan were very guarded on there internals but it would not surprise me if they were stock. What internal upgrades that have been done since, if any, would be anyones guess. If you are planning to run big power then best to strip and have a look in side. I strip and refresh my engine every 12 months as a matter of course. NISSAN 2004 PICKUP SPECIFICATIONS Engine Based on VQ35 (4 valves per cylinder. 4 cam all-aluminium engine) six cylinder engine. With variable valve timing Bore / stroke 95.5 x 81.4 Max Output 200 kW at 5000 rpm Max Torque 360 Nm at 4000 rpm Clutch Multi Plate Inlet Roller throttle injection system Oil System Dry sump configuration Engine Management Pectel, fully programmable, with engine history logging Transmission Six speed sequential gearbox with centre differential and single reverse Suspension Front and Rear Double wishbone with dual coil-over dampers Max permissible travel for T2 250 mm Differentials Front and Rear units have centre portions from Nissan Patrol with motorsport constructed housings and limited slip Brakes & Wheels and Tyres Front and rear - AP four piston callipers with 320 mm ventilated discs 16" Magnesium Alloy rims with BF Goodrich tyres Fuel Tank 500 litre tank for long distance liaison and stages Steering Power assisted rack and pinion Maximum Speed 190 km/h Weight (Dry) 1750 kg (T2 min weight 1750kg) Dimensions Length: 4.700 mm Height: 1.700 mm Width: 2.000 mm Chassis v200-element roll cage, incorporating all suspension pick-up points and attachment points for body work and ancillaries. Enlarged cabin area, compared with the 2003 IRS Pickup for improved comfort and visibility. Body Parts The revised body shape for improved aerodynamics and visibility is of composite construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 The roller type tb that you have is indeed race spec. Is it cable operated or fly by ? Alex. yeah thats what i thought about the tb. since the only roller tb i can find are all race spec. but only ever a 2 barrel so to speak that replaces the stock tb. its cable operated with a throttle position sensor at one end. aint 350's fly by wire? im assuming its been matched to the heads since the head inlets are quite large and smooth as well. plus it has 5mm thick plastic type spacers. im guessing to keep temps down, the info you pulled on the rally raid is the same stuff i have found, ive read hundreds of documents and web sites over the past few weeks and thats all i came up with, hence the dumb questions lol. the peak figures are similar to a standard engine but making em slightly lower down, im guessing coz of the tb and head work. i was thinking the internals may be stock but since none of it has nissan part numbers on them i started thinking custom built for that engine. its currently stored in its works rally flight case lol. the flat spot on the cams only has some hand engraved numbers just like everything else. not a single stamped or cast in part number. as for rebuilding it for big power im not building it for any power, i dont run a nissan, im a vw man and doubt it will fit my vr6 lol. im just trying to gather as much info as possible on the parts so i know what i am dealing with. once its stripped down/cleaned and lubed im gunna be flogging the bits on. i cant afford a 350 let alone rebuilding it to fit into a 350 lol. basically what i got is the complete engine including dry sump kit but minus the injectors. still got injector loom but no jets themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz77 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 very interesting stuff. was the car built by nissan works team or a nissan based team? there are few incarnations around based on the vq, I remember someone trying to sell what he called a vq38 somewhere recently. similar to your case, he didnt have a details of the built except that its been stroked to 3.8 and was raced in the states. I would be surprised if the internal are stock. I seem to remember that the con rods on the vq35de were not the strongest nissan has produced so they were a definite upgrade for compitition engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 wernt me with the 38 lol. basically the box it is sitting in says nissan rally raid team 01. so im guessing definatly a works unit. dont ask where it came from coz you wont like or beleive the 2 answers i give you lol. considering its a works unit im guessing all custom parts and just the general block and tackle of a vq lump. it looks almost identical to a vq35de whith the tb removed on mine and the inlet removed from a standard unit. except the dry sump kit,, (anyone want it for their drift 350 lol) all the info availible is that its a vq based engine with 4valve per cylinder and 4 cams per head, vvt, natural aspirated. putting out very similar figures to a standard engine. other than that im lost, apart from i got me a very expensive door stop for a tb lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanS16 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 wernt me with the 38 lol. basically the box it is sitting in says nissan rally raid team 01. so im guessing definatly a works unit. dont ask where it came from coz you wont like or beleive the 2 answers i give you lol. considering its a works unit im guessing all custom parts and just the general block and tackle of a vq lump. it looks almost identical to a vq35de whith the tb removed on mine and the inlet removed from a standard unit. except the dry sump kit,, (anyone want it for their drift 350 lol) all the info availible is that its a vq based engine with 4valve per cylinder and 4 cams per head, vvt, natural aspirated. putting out very similar figures to a standard engine. other than that im lost, apart from i got me a very expensive door stop for a tb lol. Wheres it from then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz77 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 why dont you post some pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sptbentle ... aidEngine# maz-heres a linky to some pics i sent someone, and ian i dunno where it came from and i literally tripped over it when i was looking for a main sewer in some waste land lol and before u say yeah right, i told ya u wouldnt beleive me i can go take a pic of the tb its removed from the engine, i got it just sitting inthe back of my work van Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanS16 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/sptbentley/WorksRallyRaidEngine# maz-heres a linky to some pics i sent someone, and ian i dunno where it came from and i literally tripped over it when i was looking for a main sewer in some waste land lol and before u say yeah right, i told ya u wouldnt beleive me i can go take a pic of the tb its removed from the engine, i got it just sitting inthe back of my work van No mate, I do believe you as if you had stolen it/been given it by someone I'm sure you'd know a little more about it Quite an interesting thread even if I dont have a clue what Alex is saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 i'll take a piccy of the tb and pop it up when i get a sec, that ways people can actually see what im talking about, and also would it fit other v6 engines like the vg or are they worlds apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 14, 2009 Author Share Posted June 14, 2009 heres some pics of the tb as promised, apologies for the quality, its an old cheap low res camera, hopefully this may give you some sort of ides of what im dealing with, with this engine. ive never seen one this size and CANNOT find anything even remotly similar that fits this type of engine, only yank v8 stuff with just 2 boresand a 2 bore one for a scooby, i've found a duratec (ford one) but that just has just one big inlet and one big outlet for a 4.0 mustang. each of them trumpet thingys is approx 2.5" and the under side of each one is approx 2.5"x1.5". the mating faces also have 5mm thick spacer gaskets, im assuming to prevent heat transfer line phonetic (if thats the right name) gaskets. top bottom throttle open throttle closed with my phone for size comparison back end front end with cable snail and that big bit sticking up is the snail stop adjuster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maz77 Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 one thing for sure is that you need a new camera mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinv6 Posted June 15, 2009 Author Share Posted June 15, 2009 yeah thats for sure, told ya it was old cheap and pants lol. so what on earth do i do with it? i cant use it. even though my car is 6 cylinders its an inline v6 (vr6) and all under one bank not a traditional split v. i still got no idea who i even need to be talking to with regards to tuners/racers/back yard tinkerers. still waiting for a reply from topsecret (the usa branch). thought id try them since they are supposed to be one of the best nissan tuners about. who else can i seek advice from? although you guys have helped shed a little info, its still not getting me anywhere. like i said i cant use it so my only option is to flog it on. but probably with the heads/cams and spacers as a race type package , but at non-race type package prices. i wouldnt even know how to go about advertising something like this or what sort of money to ask for it. a similar one for a ford duratec retails at over £1200 for just the tb. yet im talking the whole top end, then i still gotta deal with the block, which is also complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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