NWZ Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Hope it doesn't go pear shaped Dave - I work in the Logistics industry and worked on a 300,000 sq ft greenfield distribution centre for Wolseley (Bathstore, build centre etc), the total cost was £30m which went live in Jan 08, I was the main IT PM on-site (contractor), anyway they announced last month it's closing, goes up for sale in August!!! Scary stuff..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I like to put an optimistic spin on this situation. Whilst things dont look good in the short term, well structured companies with a good product base will be well placed to prsper when things begin to improve. It sounds like Daves employers are forward thinking enough to realise this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 I like to put an optimistic spin on this situation. Whilst things dont look good in the short term, well structured companies with a good product base will be well placed to prsper when things begin to improve. It sounds like Daves employers are forward thinking enough to realise this Exactly right Martin Its been forcast that when the good times do return that because so many brick companys have folded or shut plants that there will be under capacity to supply the market demand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinmac Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I like to put an optimistic spin on this situation. Whilst things dont look good in the short term, well structured companies with a good product base will be well placed to prsper when things begin to improve. It sounds like Daves employers are forward thinking enough to realise this Exactly right Martin Its been forcast that when the good times do return that because so many brick companys have folded or shut plants that there will be under capacity to supply the market demand!! Just thinking of how many windows I would like to put bricks through at the moment Get back to work Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantmitchell Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Will be looking into the grounding kits in more detail to see if i can source some different coloured cable. We have had several projects from various oil companies shelved but as we had already completed the design, build and commissioning of them we are now charging them storage space for the gear Means I cant get the Z into our workshop now though I was just looking round at grounding kits - is yours a super duper new design or just more of the same? Would be interested in buying one from a forum member though if you do start production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 is yours a super duper new design or just more of the same? Would be interested in buying one from a forum member though if you do start production. Will be the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantmitchell Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 is yours a super duper new design or just more of the same? Would be interested in buying one from a forum member though if you do start production. Will be the same Ok cool, well PM me when you are in production - seeing as you have 10 weeks or so on your hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hence thats why they are still paying me. Our site consumes approx £36000 in electric and about £80000 in gas a month alone!! Currently everything is switched off Not wanting to throw a spanner in the works, but commercial energgy agreements differ MASSIVELY from domestic gas/electricity agreements. Most large gas agreements carry what is known as "take or pay clauses". These vary in their thresholds, but 80/120 is not uncommon. What this means is that the site is contracted to use a minimum of 80% and a maximum of 120% of its nominated AQ (annual quantity). In short, the supplier reserves the right to charge the site for 80% of its annual quantity regardless of its usage. i.e. at £80k per month, thats a minimum £768k for the year regardless of whether the site uses it or not. Some suppliers will reconcile this on a monthly basis with an average daily load calculation, some will reconcile it at the end of the year, so clients may not be aware its coming. The bad news is that if its reconciled at the end of the year, there would be a massive outstanding balance on the account come contract renewal time, if this cannot be cleared in one payment, then at contract renewal the current supplier would not allow the transfer to another provider. Effectively they would then have the company over a barrel with regard to its next contract price. If the company is considering using the "savings" from simply switching off the gas to continue paying staff, I would be making sure they know the detail within their supply agreement. I know of two suppliers that will contract with no minimum consumption level, one of those will only do it when pushed and given assurances of the load, the other is not a well known company, and would perhaps not take on the risk of a construction related business with such a large AQ anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobD7 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hence thats why they are still paying me. Our site consumes approx £36000 in electric and about £80000 in gas a month alone!! Currently everything is switched off Not wanting to throw a spanner in the works, but commercial energgy agreements differ MASSIVELY from domestic gas/electricity agreements. Most large gas agreements carry what is known as "take or pay clauses". These vary in their thresholds, but 80/120 is not uncommon. What this means is that the site is contracted to use a minimum of 80% and a maximum of 120% of its nominated AQ (annual quantity). In short, the supplier reserves the right to charge the site for 80% of its annual quantity regardless of its usage. i.e. at £80k per month, thats a minimum £768k for the year regardless of whether the site uses it or not. Some suppliers will reconcile this on a monthly basis with an average daily load calculation, some will reconcile it at the end of the year, so clients may not be aware its coming. The bad news is that if its reconciled at the end of the year, there would be a massive outstanding balance on the account come contract renewal time, if this cannot be cleared in one payment, then at contract renewal the current supplier would not allow the transfer to another provider. Effectively they would then have the company over a barrel with regard to its next contract price. If the company is considering using the "savings" from simply switching off the gas to continue paying staff, I would be making sure they know the detail within their supply agreement. I know of two suppliers that will contract with no minimum consumption level, one of those will only do it when pushed and given assurances of the load, the other is not a well known company, and would perhaps not take on the risk of a construction related business with such a large AQ anyway. Wow - did not know that, very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hence thats why they are still paying me. Our site consumes approx £36000 in electric and about £80000 in gas a month alone!! Currently everything is switched off Not wanting to throw a spanner in the works, but commercial energgy agreements differ MASSIVELY from domestic gas/electricity agreements. Most large gas agreements carry what is known as "take or pay clauses". These vary in their thresholds, but 80/120 is not uncommon. What this means is that the site is contracted to use a minimum of 80% and a maximum of 120% of its nominated AQ (annual quantity). In short, the supplier reserves the right to charge the site for 80% of its annual quantity regardless of its usage. i.e. at £80k per month, thats a minimum £768k for the year regardless of whether the site uses it or not. Some suppliers will reconcile this on a monthly basis with an average daily load calculation, some will reconcile it at the end of the year, so clients may not be aware its coming. The bad news is that if its reconciled at the end of the year, there would be a massive outstanding balance on the account come contract renewal time, if this cannot be cleared in one payment, then at contract renewal the current supplier would not allow the transfer to another provider. Effectively they would then have the company over a barrel with regard to its next contract price. If the company is considering using the "savings" from simply switching off the gas to continue paying staff, I would be making sure they know the detail within their supply agreement. I know of two suppliers that will contract with no minimum consumption level, one of those will only do it when pushed and given assurances of the load, the other is not a well known company, and would perhaps not take on the risk of a construction related business with such a large AQ anyway. One thing to remember Chris we have 27 sites in the UK that use a similar amount each month. We also have a team that work for the company that buy gas and electricity on a daily basis And in recent years sometimes one months gas usage as been as much as £250k for one site alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Still wont affect the take or pay clauses. You can have flexible purchasing agreements where by you can secure prices for various points in time and for certain volumes, but take or pay clauses will remain. Having a contract with a supplier to take gas will mean the supplier purchasing the gas up front to secure the price - simply switching the tap off and expacting the supplier to be "stuck" with the stock that they purchased in order to secure the price for the customer wont work. Hence the take or pay clauses. The suppliers purchase based on expected customer demand at the time of securing. Even when purchasing on a daily basis, there will still be an underlying contract with the supplier/s. We negotiate over £100m worth of gas/electricity purchasing every year for our clients, and you cant simply switch off an £80k per month supply and expect the supplier to swallow it. They may be able to shift costs to other plants and negotiate lower consumption levels going forward which will allow the supplier to resell any pre booked supply back into the market, but it is a totally different kettle of fish to simply switching the gas off and getting a zero bill like you would at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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