Chesterfield Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The point is that turning the VDC off DOES invalidate the warranty, The booklet states that driving the car while VDC is off is not a condition covered under warranty. So by that reckoning this is any driving with it off, not just restricted to Launch Control (not an advertised feature). The button may as well be rebadged as "warranty" if the wording in the booklet is to be taken on face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The point is that turning the VDC off DOES invalidate the warranty, The booklet states that driving the car while VDC is off is not a condition covered under warranty. To my mind that reads as anything that breaks with VDC off is not covered under warranty not turn VDC off and you void your warranty..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigphil Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The point is that turning the VDC off DOES invalidate the warranty, The booklet states that driving the car while VDC is off is not a condition covered under warranty. So by that reckoning this is any driving with it off, not just restricted to Launch Control (not an advertised feature). The button may as well be rebadged as "warranty" if the wording in the booklet is to be taken on face value. A number of customers with UK orders have letters of confirmation that the warranty will not be invalidated by turning off the VDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 That would certainly contradict the information printed in the booklets that have been seen in the states, though this may be confirmation of the normal interpretation of the wording in the booklet that turning the VDC off alone will not invalidate your warranty, but anything that breaks while VDC is off wont be covered. Though if that is the case, if you use the LC several times, but then the box gives way afterward while VDC is on, will the prior driving while VDC is off be cause to deny a warranty repair on an item that breaks during normal use? Its all very woolly to me, but I guess the best option is to leave the VDC switch alone if you dont have pockets deep enough to pay for a new transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty. Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission? My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox. Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera? One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity. Don't drive with the VDC off then I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill. The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off. If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening................. Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures.... If the big red button said press me and it'll cost you £10k, would you? No but I would question why the button was there in the first place if its purpose appears to be self destruction. This reminds me of when Simon smashed his zed up but wouldn't say whether the traction control was on or not.......it was obviously off but wanted the insurance to pay up......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The amount of electronics on the GT-R and Nissans inability to provide customer 'service'..... I think they'll tear the warranty up! They will know exactly how it's been driven Unless the Performance centres aren't answering to the same accountants / warrenty claims management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty. Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission? My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox. Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera? One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity. Don't drive with the VDC off then I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill. The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off. If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening................. Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures.... If the big red button said press me and it'll cost you £10k, would you? No but I would question why the button was there in the first place if its purpose appears to be self destruction. This reminds me of when Simon smashed his zed up but wouldn't say whether the traction control was on or not.......it was obviously off but wanted the insurance to pay up......... Its purpose is to allow you to drive the car without the restricting gadgetry. As per the warranty though, you do this and it breaks......your on your own........ Were not talking about defective parts here, were talking about abused cars. Warranty will pay out on defective parts not trashed one, as any warranty on any car would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty. Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission? My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox. Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera? One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity. Don't drive with the VDC off then I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill. The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off. If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening................. Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures.... If the big red button said press me and it'll cost you £10k, would you? No but I would question why the button was there in the first place if its purpose appears to be self destruction. This reminds me of when Simon smashed his zed up but wouldn't say whether the traction control was on or not.......it was obviously off but wanted the insurance to pay up......... Its purpose is to allow you to drive the car without the restricting gadgetry. As per the warranty though, you do this and it breaks......your on your own........ Were not talking about defective parts here, were talking about abused cars. Warranty will pay out on defective parts not trashed one, as any warranty on any car would. ...or to entice you to drive the car in the manner in which it is marketed and hyped and then coin it in when you realise that it can't take the abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GC350z Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The point is that turning the VDC off DOES invalidate the warranty, The booklet states that driving the car while VDC is off is not a condition covered under warranty. So by that reckoning this is any driving with it off, not just restricted to Launch Control (not an advertised feature). The button may as well be rebadged as "warranty" if the wording in the booklet is to be taken on face value. A number of customers with UK orders have letters of confirmation that the warranty will not be invalidated by turning off the VDC. There's a comment on pistonhead that this VDC warranty issue is USA only. If the big red button said press me and it'll cost you £10k, would you? I so want to press that button right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty. Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission? My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox. Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera? One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity. Don't drive with the VDC off then I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill. The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off. If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening................. Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures.... If the big red button said press me and it'll cost you £10k, would you? No but I would question why the button was there in the first place if its purpose appears to be self destruction. This reminds me of when Simon smashed his zed up but wouldn't say whether the traction control was on or not.......it was obviously off but wanted the insurance to pay up......... Its purpose is to allow you to drive the car without the restricting gadgetry. As per the warranty though, you do this and it breaks......your on your own........ Were not talking about defective parts here, were talking about abused cars. Warranty will pay out on defective parts not trashed one, as any warranty on any car would. ...or to entice you to drive the car in the manner in which it is marketed and hyped and then coin it in when you realise that it can't take the abuse. I think your being too cynical. Nissan are only going to lose sale and owners from the negative press from this. Anyone who thinks you can drive any car like you stole it without breaking it probably isn't intelligent enough to have a license...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigphil Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 From our conversations with various tuners over the pond and in Japan the interesting thing is their view on how well the car is standing up to the rigours of their testing. In their view it is the rich but dim kids trashing the life out of the car with no respect to the normal safeguards required to use any car in track situations. Unfortuneatly it is always the failures that make the headlines. All I can say is our reasons for importing the car now is based on an informed view not speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty. Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission? My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox. Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera? One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity. Don't drive with the VDC off then I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill. The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off. If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening................. Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures.... If the big red button said press me and it'll cost you £10k, would you? No but I would question why the button was there in the first place if its purpose appears to be self destruction. This reminds me of when Simon smashed his zed up but wouldn't say whether the traction control was on or not.......it was obviously off but wanted the insurance to pay up......... Its purpose is to allow you to drive the car without the restricting gadgetry. As per the warranty though, you do this and it breaks......your on your own........ Were not talking about defective parts here, were talking about abused cars. Warranty will pay out on defective parts not trashed one, as any warranty on any car would. ...or to entice you to drive the car in the manner in which it is marketed and hyped and then coin it in when you realise that it can't take the abuse. I think your being too cynical. Nissan are only going to lose sale and owners from the negative press from this. Anyone who thinks you can drive any car like you stole it without breaking it probably isn't intelligent enough to have a license...... Its my job to be cynical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I find all this tranny reliability thing quite amusing given Alex who posted this thread up is shoving 600bhp through his ZED's transmission and reguarly using it on track days without drama Launch control or not, if a feature is provided as standard it should be fit for purpose - end of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Im not a big tranny fan! I prefer real men! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I find all this tranny reliability thing quite amusing given Alex who posted this thread up is shoving 600bhp through his ZED's transmission and reguarly using it on track days without drama Launch control or not, if a feature is provided as standard it should be fit for purpose - end of. But its not provided as standard, thats the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Im not a big tranny fan! I prefer real men! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl114 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Im not a big tranny fan! I prefer real men! Thanks for the welcome back! Too predictable though. I however do think that if it is there to be turned off and it allows the driver to disable a function, the car should withstand the abuse it would get. However, as wear and tear is not covered under warrenty, this is obviously down to wear and tear therefore should not be covered. Its a catch 22 it seems as its a new car so people will not know the limits of the car, but then again, its pretty obvious that this would cause some sort of mechanical failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I find all this tranny reliability thing quite amusing given Alex who posted this thread up is shoving 600bhp through his ZED's transmission and reguarly using it on track days without drama Launch control or not, if a feature is provided as standard it should be fit for purpose - end of. But its not provided as standard, thats the point Sorry to disagree but it is standard - it is no different to traction control buttons or any other feature that can be used or otherwise by an owner - if the facility exists as fitted from the factory and without adding to or subtracting from the car's specification, then it is a standard item there to be used. It is for Nissan to prove abuse (i.e racing etc) for the warranty to be void. And note what Phil said who is probably the best placed to comment: A number of customers with UK orders have letters of confirmation that the warranty will not be invalidated by turning off the VDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I find all this tranny reliability thing quite amusing given Alex who posted this thread up is shoving 600bhp through his ZED's transmission and reguarly using it on track days without drama Launch control or not, if a feature is provided as standard it should be fit for purpose - end of. But its not provided as standard, thats the point Sorry to disagree but it is standard - it is no different to traction control buttons or any other feature that can be used or otherwise by an owner - if the facility exists as fitted from the factory and without adding to or subtracting from the car's specification, then it is a standard item there to be used. It is for Nissan to prove abuse (i.e racing etc) for the warranty to be void. And note what Phil said who is probably the best placed to comment: A number of customers with UK orders have letters of confirmation that the warranty will not be invalidated by turning off the VDC. I read it but i wonder if you read it? Of course VDC is standard. Launch control is not standard which is what this thread is about. Turning VDC off does not void the warranty, which is obvious and don't need Phil to confirm. Turning off the VDC, thrashing your car via launch control or anyother method and then breaking it, will void the warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Then why purposely state driving with the VDC off is not covered under warranty, rather than exclude the Launch Control (feature or not). The wording covers "driving" with VDC off, no mention of any harsh acceleration, spirited driving or otherwise. I would be very interested to see the reaction if something were to give way during normal driving with VDC off. Would this refusal of warranty repairs just be applicable to the use of Launch control while VDC is off, or would the claim be thrown out regardless as it was under VDC off conditions. If the car has the ability to switch the VDC off then surely the car should be able to be used in that condition. Lets remember we arent discussing the turning off of VDC by some underhand non disclosed sneaky method of ODB programming or combination of button presses and accelerator prods - there is a ruddy great switch on the centre console that has an "off" position. If its that important that the car not be driven with VDC off, you would have thought that turning it off would have been a little more complex than flicking a switch in the middle ofyour centre console. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Going back a few posts... No manufacturer is going to say turn off the gadget that prevents the car from getting trashed, cane it around town/ a track and we'll happily pick up the bill...... Lotus aren't far off that: The newer spec Exiges come with T/C which is eminently switchable (as well as adjustable slip allowed), but they then tell you in the manual that you don't need to pay any special attention to the car over and above the obvious when going on track and warranty will not be effected in any way. I know there's a bit of a difference between Lotus TC and Nissan VDC, but then there's also a world of difference between a small British manufacturer and a massive multi-platform Japanese firm. Make no mistake, someone will get caught out by this once the UK cars start coming through. All it will take will be for one Performance Centre to take a stand against a particularly obnoxious customer, and then you'll really see the fur fly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Then why purposely state driving with the VDC off is not covered under warranty, rather than exclude the Launch Control (feature or not). They can't exclude a feature they don't acknowledge (launch control) and Nissan UK have said you can drive with VDC off....... The wording covers "driving" with VDC off, no mention of any harsh acceleration, spirited driving or otherwise. The wording is ''driving conditions'' e.g. the conditions in which you drive the car which can encompass launching it from the lights, trackwork etc. There is no way they can void a warranty for turning the VDC off, as confirmed by the Uk GTR owners who have had it confirmed by Nissan GB in writing......... I would be very interested to see the reaction if something were to give way during normal driving with VDC off. Would this refusal of warranty repairs just be applicable to the use of Launch control while VDC is off, or would the claim be thrown out regardless as it was under VDC off conditions. Again they haven't said it would be voided because VDC was off.......if you thrash the car with VDC off and it breaks = no warranty......its not hard to understand............. If the car has the ability to switch the VDC off then surely the car should be able to be used in that condition. It can and you can drive it under warranty with VDC off.Lets remember we arent discussing the turning off of VDC by some underhand non disclosed sneaky method of ODB programming or combination of button presses and accelerator prods - there is a ruddy great switch on the centre console that has an "off" position. As Digsy said, it might as well be the Warranty OFF button, why turn your cars VDC off and then thrash it, knowing you won't be covered? You wouldn't do it in a Ferrari so why a GT-R? If its that important that the car not be driven with VDC off, you would have thought that turning it off would have been a little more complex than flicking a switch in the middle ofyour centre console. Its not that important. You can drive with VDC on or off or with warrenty of without. You choose. Its important not to use the launch control if you want to keep your warrenty hence the complex nature of engaging it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Its hardly complex to engage Launch Control, and as I have not seen any evidence of letters confirming that switching off VDC does not undermine the warranty, I can only go on the info printed in the manuals seen so far. If Nissan UK have confirmed that driving with VDC off is covered, have they mentioned anything about the Launch Control? Im not stating that Nissan "will" void the warranty for simply turning the VDC off, but just going by whats been printed in the manuals Ive seen. I suppose its a catch all. Although Im not a fan of Jay Leno - he did a spot with John Weiner, the Director of Product Planning at Nissan. Have a look at this video from the 6 minute mark onward. If Nissan didnt want people using the Launch Control, why the hell is one of their Directors stating that "we actually offer a launch mode in this car" and then going on to describe the dumping of 4500 rpm and resulting in "perfect launches every time you do this". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CmLT05qZ8Q Now is that supposed to be "perfect launches every time you do this, until the cogs get spat out" ? Having a Nissan Director spout on about a launch control system, then ducking out of fixing a transmission because someone used it "too much" doesnt seem like cricket to me. This may be a case of one bad egg and there is nothing to worry about, but pictures of shredded gears and stories of boxes not being honoured under warranty, whether exagerated or not, are enough to make me glad I kept my wallet shut some months ago. Im sure however if there does appear to be a gap in the market for stronger cogs, it wont be long until they are available from after market retailers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarnie Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 The thing is i wouldn't use launch control whether it was covered or not, as I wouldn't want to **** up my car. When you've owned a G you get used to not being able to launch from the lights, well not if you don't want to be hit with a huge clutch bill. I bought my car knowing I couldn't launch it from the lights and accepted the risks associated with it. Its a simple equation: GT-R - VDC = No warranty if it breaks. The press are the ones lauding the performance figures of the GT-R but what they haven't tested is the long term reliability of the car under intense driving, as some people are now finding out..... If I was a dealer principle and a broken GT-R came to me to be fixed and the data log said it had been given a hard life, with the VDC off and launched on numerous occassions, i wouldn't cough up for his doughnuts in McDonalds car parks......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterfield Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I agree in not using it, what I am stating though is that should my car be broken due to using LC, and Nissan refused to warrant the repair, I wouldnt be too chuffed to then find a video of one of their directors specifically "advertising" the feature. Would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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