Oh! Dear....But we already know this.....

[ZMANALEX]

http://www.pistonheads.com:80/news/defa ... ryId=18796

 

 

And the reason is .......It is not a wet clutch, so you are very limited to the amount of launch controls without blowing your tranny.

 

I drove a Porsche 911 ((997) with the new PDK tranny last week and did over 8 launch controls on the spin and it was absolutely awesome, no silly disclaimers with them and wet clutch to boot.

[AK350Z]

Well it's a "secret" launch control for a reason isn't it? It's taken porche a lot of years to make that PDK 'box.

 

Edit: it's derived from the original on the 962 in the '80's!

[Digsy]

Beginning to look a little like the Emperor's New Clothes this. Great car if you want to break records whilst surrounded by a team of mechanics or blow off Porsches in press cars but as an ownership prospect I'm not so sure...

[Beavis]

Very worrying

[Chesterfield]

There are even more worrying pieces of information circling in other areas too.

 

Has anyone been given the full information from Nissan on how much a replacement "clutch" will be, and how often one may be needed?

 

What about those whom have put deposits down? Do they know the servicing and maintenance costs yet?

 

From what I can gether there are going to be some seriously heavy bills with this car. Perhaps much heavier than bills for similar items on £100k+ cars. Nothing confirmed yet, so just speculation, but incredibly worrying.

 

What is quite concerning is that Nissan void the warranty if the Launch Control is used (well specifically if the VDC is turned off - but you have to do this to use Launch Control). Yet state its ok to turn VDC off to get out of snow or mud etc..

 

Creating a setup which allows the car to be launched from 4500rpm, does not constitute a device that allows the escape from snow or mud.

 

Its been put there to get the car from 0-60 in 3.4, but if you do it you void your warranty. So they fit a car with Launch Control, and then deny the warranty claims from anyone that uses it.

 

Gets them out of some very expensive repairs if the gearbox isnt all it needs to be.

 

I can see many tears before bedtime with this car.

 

On another note, lets say someone buys a GTR second hand after 18 months, and the car drops a cog...

The owner then takes it to Nissan who discover that Launch control has been used, but before the driver took ownership of the vehicle...

 

What then? My guess would be, "sorry Launch Control has been used so we cant honour the warranty". What does the owner do? Sue the previous owner? On what grounds?

 

Does the car record WHEN Launch control was used, could it be proven that it was the original owner, and if yes, so what?

 

Would you buy a second hand GTR with 18 months worth of warranty that you couldnt be sure existed or not?

 

Or would you want to knock half the price of a new transmission off just to be at least some way covered? Depreciation might be fun if thats the case.

[Sarnie]

There are even more worrying pieces of information circling in other areas too.

 

Has anyone been given the full information from Nissan on how much a replacement "clutch" will be, and how often one may be needed?

 

What about those whom have put deposits down? Do they know the servicing and maintenance costs yet?

 

From what I can gether there are going to be some seriously heavy bills with this car. Perhaps much heavier than bills for similar items on £100k+ cars. Nothing confirmed yet, so just speculation, but incredibly worrying.

 

What is quite concerning is that Nissan void the warranty if the Launch Control is used (well specifically if the VDC is turned off - but you have to do this to use Launch Control). Yet state its ok to turn VDC off to get out of snow or mud etc..

 

Creating a setup which allows the car to be launched from 4500rpm, does not constitute a device that allows the escape from snow or mud.

 

Its been put there to get the car from 0-60 in 3.4, but if you do it you void your warranty. So they fit a car with Launch Control, and then deny the warranty claims from anyone that uses it.

 

Gets them out of some very expensive repairs if the gearbox isnt all it needs to be.

 

I can see many tears before bedtime with this car.

 

On another note, lets say someone buys a GTR second hand after 18 months, and the car drops a cog...

The owner then takes it to Nissan who discover that Launch control has been used, but before the driver took ownership of the vehicle...

 

What then? My guess would be, "sorry Launch Control has been used so we cant honour the warranty". What does the owner do? Sue the previous owner? On what grounds?

 

Does the car record WHEN Launch control was used, could it be proven that it was the original owner, and if yes, so what?

 

Would you buy a second hand GTR with 18 months worth of warranty that you couldnt be sure existed or not?

 

Or would you want to knock half the price of a new transmission off just to be at least some way covered? Depreciation might be fun if thats the case.

 

I've mentioned a fair few of these points in past posts. The initial costing of this car is what's decieving a lot of potential buyers and that allied to it being 'only a nissan'. I read about 6 months ago the costs of parts in japan, with OEM brake pads and discs being well over £3k......set alarm bells ringing for me.

 

I also hate all the stupid secrecy. Why not tell us when it'll be released? When can we pay deposits? When will they be delivered? How much will servicing be? How much will they cost? Will the first few years servicing be included in the cost? What will the warranty cost. If you go on the GTR forum there are lots of people with orders down and no idea what they are getting for their money. Nissan have recently sent out confirmations to people expecting 2010 deliveries 6-8 months early so that their £3500 deposits become unrefundable. All still without publishing service and parts costs. What if they take your money and then announce next years services are £2k each every 6k????

 

The warranty issue is typical really. I never put any weighting on wanting or needing a uk warranty which is why I looked at importing one at first. If it had been financially beneficial to import one I would of done so. To be fair even Lambo used to replace clutches under warranty.

 

 

No car is bullet proof, so if owners think they can abuse their car and it'll withstand everything then they are stupid. And even stupider if they think Nissan will pick up the bill for them frying their own clutch and tranny. However I would like to know if, I fry my clutch or the tranny with the VDC ON, will they cover it under warranty?

 

Nissan will never convert the doubters who choose other prestige marques over Nissan whilst these pathetic issues exist.

[Chesterfield]

Very much doubt that the transmission and clutch will be done under warranty, which is bizzare given its an auto box. Manual box and the opportunity to ride the clutch, fine - but a car that changes gear itself? surely there should be some minimum lifespan.

 

Also there is no "clutch" replacement. There are however 7 (yes seven) boxes within the service schedule book for "transmission assembly replacement".

 

The running costs of this car are easily on par with the likes of Lambo/Ferrari, though you arent driving a Lambo/Ferrari.

 

Clutch at £5000 from Lamborghini dealer for a gallardo isnt that bad considering its a £120,000 car.

 

With "transmission replacements" i.e. not just the clutch as an available option, at a roumoured £9,000 from Nissan for a £55,000 car - its not lookig so rosy all of a sudden.

 

Do Lambo/Ferrari void your warranty if you use their launch control?

[Sarnie]

Very much doubt that the transmission and clutch will be done under warranty, which is bizzare given its an auto box. Manual box and the opportunity to ride the clutch, fine - but a car that changes gear itself? surely there should be some minimum lifespan.

 

Also there is no "clutch" replacement. There are however 7 (yes seven) boxes within the service schedule book for "transmission assembly replacement".

 

The running costs of this car are easily on par with the likes of Lambo/Ferrari, though you arent driving a Lambo/Ferrari.

 

Clutch at £5000 from Lamborghini dealer for a gallardo isnt that bad considering its a £120,000 car.

 

With "transmission replacements" i.e. not just the clutch as an available option, at a roumoured £9,000 from Nissan for a £55,000 car - its not lookig so rosy all of a sudden.

 

Do Lambo/Ferrari void your warranty if you use their launch control?

 

Well their is no launch control on the G. There is on the 430, not sure about the 360. Also, the clutch is a wear and tear item unless defective.

 

The lambo clutch issue was that the first 4-5 revisions of the clutch were **** poor and not down to people hammering their cars. Dom at Lambo Brum said its very easy to get a read out of your driving style to determine if you or the clutch was at fault. The point here is whether the clutch/tranny is defective or weak or if the driver is at fault.

 

If you turn the VDC off in a GT-R and engage launch control, then surely your at fault for fooking up the tranny, clutch or whatever else? If I was Nissan I wouldn't pay out on these claims either, why should they?

[bronzee]

For not that much more, there are far more interesting cars to be had in my opinion. No disrespect to anyone that has their deposits in.

[Chesterfield]

If you turn the VDC off in a GT-R and engage launch control, then surely your at fault for fooking up the tranny, clutch or whatever else? If I was Nissan I wouldn't pay out on these claims either, why should they?

 

If they are going to launch a car with a 0-60 time quoted as 3.4 but the only way this can be done is by using launch control, I would think it a little unfair to void peoples warranty for using launch control in order to have the car perform as advertised.

 

Having said that, I dont see anywhere in Nissans own litterature that this 3.4 figure is quoted.

 

I can see the clutch being wear and tear, but voiding the warranty on the transmission for using a feature of the car? Sounds like a chocolate gearbox to me.

 

Reading the forums in the US, there are more and more of these transmission failures appearing.

 

I would still be interested to hear peoples views on the second hand market for these cars. Would you buy one 18 months old? How would you know if the VDC had been turned off or not. You could be buying a car with a box about to let go, and effectively no warranty.

 

As for running costs, there are more details appearing in the US as people go over the various milestones...

 

With the habbit of rip off Britain, what do people reckon to the $1000 transmission fluid change at 6000 miles?

 

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php ... 2947&st=40

[GC350z]

I seem to remember there was a story that servicing was included in the cost of the car for a period of time. 1 year or whatever. If it's the same in the EU and prices quoted above are accurate do you guys thing second hand value cars will plummet? I'm not saying they'll plummet to be worthless. I talking about the drop after one year when potential buyers realise they'll have to foot one hell of a bill to service it. The original buyer could be taking a hit that just isn't worth it and may even find it difficult to sell on.

[Sarnie]

If you turn the VDC off in a GT-R and engage launch control, then surely your at fault for fooking up the tranny, clutch or whatever else? If I was Nissan I wouldn't pay out on these claims either, why should they?

 

If they are going to launch a car with a 0-60 time quoted as 3.4 but the only way this can be done is by using launch control, I would think it a little unfair to void peoples warranty for using launch control in order to have the car perform as advertised.

 

Having said that, I dont see anywhere in Nissans own litterature that this 3.4 figure is quoted.

 

I can see the clutch being wear and tear, but voiding the warranty on the transmission for using a feature of the car? Sounds like a chocolate gearbox to me.

 

Reading the forums in the US, there are more and more of these transmission failures appearing.

 

I would still be interested to hear peoples views on the second hand market for these cars. Would you buy one 18 months old? How would you know if the VDC had been turned off or not. You could be buying a car with a box about to let go, and effectively no warranty.

 

As for running costs, there are more details appearing in the US as people go over the various milestones...

 

With the habbit of rip off Britain, what do people reckon to the $1000 transmission fluid change at 6000 miles?

 

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php ... 2947&st=40

 

As you say, the 3.4 0-60 is not a Nissan quoted time, its just what the press have been achieving and its been taken as official, when its not.

 

The thing is, launch control wasn't supposed to be a feature of the car. It was discovered by journalists via a 'leak' from Nissan. If it was a feature to be included in the cars spec it would have a button/switch on the dash or steering wheel like the 430.

 

With regard to buying a 2nd hand one, you should be able to take the car to a HPC and have them hook it up to their systems for a pre-purchase check up, like lambo do.

 

£500 is reasonable for any service on a car of this price and performance, that £500 will more likely be £800 or so in the uk. It all depends on when the next serice is due and the cost of that........

[Digsy]

If you turn the VDC off in a GT-R and engage launch control, then surely your at fault for fooking up the tranny, clutch or whatever else? If I was Nissan I wouldn't pay out on these claims either, why should they?

 

If they are going to launch a car with a 0-60 time quoted as 3.4 but the only way this can be done is by using launch control, I would think it a little unfair to void peoples warranty for using launch control in order to have the car perform as advertised.

 

Having said that, I dont see anywhere in Nissans own litterature that this 3.4 figure is quoted.

 

I can see the clutch being wear and tear, but voiding the warranty on the transmission for using a feature of the car? Sounds like a chocolate gearbox to me.

 

Reading the forums in the US, there are more and more of these transmission failures appearing.

 

I would still be interested to hear peoples views on the second hand market for these cars. Would you buy one 18 months old? How would you know if the VDC had been turned off or not. You could be buying a car with a box about to let go, and effectively no warranty.

 

As for running costs, there are more details appearing in the US as people go over the various milestones...

 

With the habbit of rip off Britain, what do people reckon to the $1000 transmission fluid change at 6000 miles?

 

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php ... 2947&st=40

 

As you say, the 3.4 0-60 is not a Nissan quoted time, its just what the press have been achieving and its been taken as official, when its not.

 

The thing is, launch control wasn't supposed to be a feature of the car. It was discovered by journalists via a 'leak' from Nissan. If it was a feature to be included in the cars spec it would have a button/switch on the dash or steering wheel like the 430.

 

With regard to buying a 2nd hand one, you should be able to take the car to a HPC and have them hook it up to their systems for a pre-purchase check up, like lambo do.

 

£500 is reasonable for any service on a car of this price and performance, that £500 will more likely be £800 or so in the uk. It all depends on when the next serice is due and the cost of that........

 

Why install a launch control if its so destructive to the car? It may not be a publicised feature but its a feature nevertheless. And lets not be naive enough to believe that Nissan didn't realise it would be discovered, "leak" or not.

[tmJak]

I think they installed it to achieve impressive 0 - 60 times and leaked it to allow the figures into the public domain. Guess they don't wanna publicise it as it wrecks the car, and they don't want to be blamed and repair them all the time.

 

I'm not surprised about the cost of repairing the GTR, I can't imagine you can pay less for a supercar than for a executive merc / BMW and it not have a downside. Lets just hope ESR can service them for a discounted rate

[Digsy]

Nissan are playing too many games and forgetting about the paying punters methinks.

[Sarnie]

Nissan are playing too many games and forgetting about the paying punters methinks.

 

Yep. Hence why my money stayed in my pocket. I'd buy a GT-R but not until they are here in the uk, the service centres are set up and the car has all its problems ironed out, via warranty or not.

 

Nissan are dipping their toe into the supercar category but still mugging people off like its a £3k Micra. People with £60k to spend won't give it to Nissan if they carry on like this. Interestingly early G's are hitting £60k now.....................

[Chesterfield]

Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty.

 

Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission?

 

My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox.

 

Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera?

 

One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity.

[Sarnie]

Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty.

 

Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission?

 

My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox.

 

Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera?

 

One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity.

 

Don't drive with the VDC off then

 

I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill.

 

The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off.

 

If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening.................

[bigphil]

The situation with the transmission needs to be put into perspective.

The car that lunched its box showed a huge number of launches from the data log, no road car is capable of taking that sort of abuse and to be honest why would you want to subject any car to that level of abuse.

The original timed figures from the American magazine test ( first to try out the launch control) came back with a 0-60 of 3.5 without launch and 3.2 with launch, in my book that makes it plenty quick without the need for launch control.

As we understand it the launch control is there in the car for future motorsport use and was never intended to be public knowledge.

[Chesterfield]

The advice is to turn the VDC off only if the car gets stuck in mud or snow.

 

As driving with the VDC off invalidates the warranty, if someone were to get stuck in snow or mud, do they then have a choice. Abandon car, or lose warranty.

 

Note that the disclaimer in the booklet does not refference Launch Control, just VDC.

 

So if you wanted some sideways action, or you wanted to drive without VDC at a track, then you invalidate your warranty.

 

Whats more, it appears from reading US forums that apparently the number of "launches" cannot be determined, and possibly just that VDC has been turned off at some point.

 

As for cars not having issues with gearboxes that have not had the VDC turned off, that is correct, but if turning VDC off can result in a box being chewed through in just a few thousand miles, then how long wilkl the box last under "normal" conditions?

 

There is a reason for having 7 boxes listed under "transmission system replacement log" and I dont think its just for those who dare disengage the VDC.

 

I await news on the first "clutch" replacement on a car that has never been driven with VDC off with some anticipation. It will be interesting to see if the transmissions are now wear and tear items on cars used within the rules as now appear to be laid out. And more interestingly what the costs of such replacement items will be.

[bigphil]

The advice is to turn the VDC off only if the car gets stuck in mud or snow.

 

As driving with the VDC off invalidates the warranty, if someone were to get stuck in snow or mud, do they then have a choice. Abandon car, or lose warranty.

 

Note that the disclaimer in the booklet does not refference Launch Control, just VDC.

 

So if you wanted some sideways action, or you wanted to drive without VDC at a track, then you invalidate your warranty.

 

Whats more, it appears from reading US forums that apparently the number of "launches" cannot be determined, and possibly just that VDC has been turned off at some point.

 

As for cars not having issues with gearboxes that have not had the VDC turned off, that is correct, but if turning VDC off can result in a box being chewed through in just a few thousand miles, then how long wilkl the box last under "normal" conditions?

 

There is a reason for having 7 boxes listed under "transmission system replacement log" and I dont think its just for those who dare disengage the VDC.

 

I await news on the first "clutch" replacement on a car that has never been driven with VDC off with some anticipation. It will be interesting to see if the transmissions are now wear and tear items on cars used within the rules as now appear to be laid out. And more interestingly what the costs of such replacement items will be.

 

 

 

The transmision log is there to register what are in effect clutch changes.

The dealers will not be opening up boxes to change the clutch, they will be replacing the whole box unit.

We on the other hand will be doing it a bit differently and at much reduced cost.

[Digsy]

Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty.

 

Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission?

 

My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox.

 

Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera?

 

One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity.

 

Don't drive with the VDC off then

 

I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill.

 

The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off.

 

If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening.................

 

Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures....

[bigphil]

Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty.

 

Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission?

 

My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox.

 

Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera?

 

One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity.

 

Don't drive with the VDC off then

 

I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill.

 

The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off.

 

If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening.................

 

Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures....

 

 

Thats the thing though, it did achieve the 3.5 figure without the use of traction.

[Chesterfield]

The dealers will not be opening up boxes to change the clutch, they will be replacing the whole box unit.

 

Ill bet these will not be warranty items too, meaning that the gearbox itself will be classed as a wear and tear item.

 

As its apparently $20,000 in the US for a box, I dont expect we will see much change from £10k.

 

I suppose its all rumour and speculation on how much the things will actually cost in the UK, but I do find it incredibly strange that we dont yet have official figures and pricing for servicing inervals and parts from Nissan on cars that some people have deposits on.

 

I think the safe money is sitting tight until all these questions have been answered.

[Sarnie]

Do a few Launch controls in 430's or drive a Lambo hard, and you could be looking at a £5k clutch quite quickly - quite expensive. And it wont be under waranty.

 

Do it in a GTR and it spits its cogs out? I could live with the clutch being a non warranty item, but the rest of the transmission?

 

My personal opinion is that this "warranty not applicable if you drive with VDC off" is just a very easy way of getting out of claims for a chocolate gearbox.

 

Lets not forget the hype that this car has had, its a GTR for petes sake, 7:29 on the ring headlines etc. But unless you drive it like miss daisy, you cant rely on your warranty. Is this a GTR or a Primera?

 

One would assume that buyers of the GTR would not be buiying it for its shopping capacity.

 

Don't drive with the VDC off then

 

I never took it off in my zed's or G as I didn't drive them like I stole them and didn't want to be hit with a massive bill.

 

The only reason to turn VDC off is to thrash it beyond the parameters of what the VDC allows. Its a machine, it has limits. If you don't want to see what happens when you go past those limits, don't turn the VDC off.

 

If there was problems with the transmission on cars that had never turned the VDC off then yes, it may be a chocolate gearbox, but thats not what happening.................

 

Its a bit like having a big red button on the dash saying don't press me. If using launch control or turning of VDC is going to cause so much harm then don't allow it. Except then they couldn't hype their car up with unachievable figures....

 

If the big red button said press me and it'll cost you £10k, would you? I think the point is as phil said, the US car had massive numbers of launch's on its data log. Turning the VDC off isn't going to invalidate the warranty per se, but abusing it (via launch controls) when its off is going to put you at risk of big bills as the car can't stop you thrashing it like it can with the VDC on.

 

 

No manufacturer is going to say turn off the gadget that prevents the car from getting trashed, cane it around town/ a track and we'll happily pick up the bill......

 

 

 

This reminds me of when Simon smashed his zed up but wouldn't say whether the traction control was on or not.......it was obviously off but wanted the insurance to pay up.........