xStric9x Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Mine has done it since I have had the pop charger. Since installing it its had a service which included plugs. Are you running plenum spacers? Revs seem to be the same as mine. I just stalls sometimes after the car starts and blips the throttle itself, the revs drop too far, say to around 500 revs then it either saves itself or dies. No other issues with it No bud just the popcharger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigphil Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Most regular cause for the low idle is sticky throttle butterfly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H5 Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 A/C on. Did the ECU reset. Seemed to work for one start and then it just stalls on subsequent starts. Tried to do the throttle pos reset and idle air reset and they seemed to do their thing, but still when you start it, the idle blips, and when it drops, it drops too far. If you catch it on the way down and tap the throttle it stops dropping and contiues to run as normal. Its weird. I think it might be an air leak somewhere, or god forbit a knackered MAF. I think if it was the MAF though, it would do it all the time and not just when it was warm. Might put my stock airbox on at the weekend and see if it still does it Mine did that for a few days, then sorted itself out..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beavis Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Mine is fine with the A/C on or off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xStric9x Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Mine is fine with the A/C on or off +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Idles about 600-700 but doesn't dip below if i blip the throttle. +1 No problems here either with pop charger, no near stalls just a steady 600-700 rpm. +2 Had Standard plenum, Kinetix plenum & Motordyne spacer used with it with no probs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWZ Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Mine is absolutely fine when cold - starts up and revs about 1500rpm as it did before. The problem is only when the car is warm and it sounds as if I have exactly the same problem as Chris. The guy at K&N said that this sounds right (he fitted one to a 350z last year so he told me) and the problem is caused because not enough cold air is getting in as the filter is now inside the box which houses it & it is has the carbone fibre cover. I wonder if it's worth taking the carbon fibre cover off, warm the car up, open the bonnet and start the car up and see if there is a difference - that way there will definitely be more cold air available to the filter - I think I'll try this first. If it doesn't make any difference then I might put the oem back on and see if it's back to normal. BTW the resets didn't make any difference at all, even the ECU reset didn't appear to learn anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xStric9x Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Mine is absolutely fine when cold - starts up and revs about 1500rpm as it did before. The problem is only when the car is warm and it sounds as if I have exactly the same problem as Chris. The guy at K&N said that this sounds right (he fitted one to a 350z last year so he told me) and the problem is caused because not enough cold air is getting in as the filter is now inside the box which houses it & it is has the carbone fibre cover. I wonder if it's worth taking the carbon fibre cover off, warm the car up, open the bonnet and start the car up and see if there is a difference - that way there will definitely be more cold air available to the filter - I think I'll try this first. If it doesn't make any difference then I might put the oem back on and see if it's back to normal. BTW the resets didn't make any difference at all, even the ECU reset didn't appear to learn anything. All else fails sell it and buy a popcharger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FIDDYZ Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 You fitted the scoop yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FIDDYZ Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Isn't the set up you have at the moment the same as a pop chrager though ie.. cone and shield? I've never had this problem with the popcharger. Nope, the filter is now enclosed in its own box and the only opening is a hole about 3 inch in diamater at the front... This is where the scoop and pipe fits into so the filter is getting very little air, hot or cold... You can get away with out fitting the scoop by putting a bumper guide in but no point when you have the scoop as part of the kit! Taking the carbon fibre top off whilst there is no scoop in may help but it will still be warm air... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWZ Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yeah I was thinking the same thing Mike! Out of interest what is the difference between a K&N Typhoon & a popcharger - do they both have the same noise increase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWZ Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Good point 3fiddy! Scoop going in on Saturday. Thanks btw guys - been interesting this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xStric9x Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Isn't the set up you have at the moment the same as a pop chrager though ie.. cone and shield? I've never had this problem with the popcharger. Nope, the filter is now enclosed in its own box and the only opening is a hole about 3 inch in diamater at the front... This is where the scoop and pipe fits into so the filter is getting very little air, hot or cold... You can get away with out fitting the scoop by putting a bumper guide in but no point when you have the scoop as part of the kit! Taking the carbon fibre top off whilst there is no scoop in may help but it will still be warm air... I stand corrected I wouldn't of thought there would be that much difference in noise tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I dont think the hot air theory stands up to iterrogation. Everyone would suffer from it if it was that. Cold air feed or not, pop chargers dont have it and we both show the same symptoms. I'd be inclined to sway towards Phils explaination in that is a sticky butterfly as it has to be something that no one else has. Question is how do we clean the butterfly? I thought people had done this before and knackered them and were told not to clean them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWZ Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Chris - have you got the same kit as mine - the K&N typhoon and have you got the scoop fitted? I might be inclined just to take it to K&N as they're only up the road from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FIDDYZ Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Nope, no real difference in noise... The only thing I would say about the popcharger is that they can suffer a little more for heat soak and this was found in tests... But again who trusts tests!! Each car has a different setup and HP ranges in these cars anyway! After a few long runs and a day at millbrook, the box around the typhoon was warm to the touch, not boiling like the plenum so its made out of some type of alloy that releases heat... Even so, djtim has heatwrapped his typhoon box and chrome pipe and fitted a carbon scoop into the bonnet to force more cold air in.... I have been doing a good bit of reading up on filters recently and you will be amazed how much crap gets through these airfilters and into the engine... Extract from my 350z that has supported test data.. Points in bold are quotes in the thread All air filters are made of inexpensive media....every single one. The difference in media is significant. Inexpensive, I guess in terms of other products and materials that may be true. With respect to cotton gauze, it was never designed to be an engine air filter media and the test results available certainly support that claim. Once again, I can provide anything you feel is important in helping you to understand this. Gauze is used because it's cheap and the vast majority of companies can't design and engineer performance filter media. Simply a me too concept. At the end of the day, whether you use foam, or cotton, or what have you, they all limit flow when they are dirty - there is no way around that, even if you use the greatest filter in the world. Technically, that true. As loading occurs, the restriction level will rise in every filter tested. The important factors here are how much and how quickly this restriction rises and how it affects engine efficiency. Let's look at another vital factor. While these filters load (get dirty) we understand that this restriction level changes, but what happens to the particulate that begins to accumulate? Inspect a cotton gauze filter closely and ask yourself where can all this dirt be stored? Particles don't hang out here forever. Forces begin to act on these nomads and then they leave. There is only one place to go and that's into the combustion chamber/cylinder and into the oil. So let's examine a quality filter media that's appropriate for engine air filtration. The media must be designed with many factors in mind. In a high performance filter, end users expect low restriction and quality air flow. I think it's safe to say that they would also prefer not giving up quality engine protection if a choice was presented. So, low restriction is paramount. How can we design and engineer a media that will allow incredibly high flow (easy) and still offer uncompromising engine protection (hard)? That engineering task lies in the amount of void, size, depth and structure of these fibers. There have to be many voids that allow for air to travel through this random fiber structure and also provide every opportunity to trap micron size particulate and HOLD it for a reasonable length to allow normal maintenance to rid these variable voids of this particulate. Cotton gauze is very poor in terms of this vital responsibility. Now we have a little better understanding of how this new media can provide maximum air flow and low restriction and still protect your engine. Each type also works just fine, and have been proven for years and years, for millions of miles. Why is the filter necessary at all? What was it designed to do? I don't think each type works just fine. While we addressed that a compromise exists, let's work towards mitigating this level of compromise. If we agree that the filter is necessary, why not maximize each category of measured performance? Will the gauze filter cause a catastrophic failure? How can we be sure? Based on years and a wide variety of testing filtration, it is clear that more potentially damaging particulate is allowed to enter your engine when equipped with a gauze filter. In actual testing, that number can be from 15 to 21 times more dust than when equipped with a quality filter media. It's reasonable to assume that this can only have a negative effect on internal components and thus longevity. Why deal with it when it's no longer necessary? The best air filter is a clean air filter. That's generally true! How often is our filter clean? How do we measure clean? How often are owners removing these oiled gauze filters and performing this required maintenance in order that the filter remain clean? Why deal with this process and the uncertainty if it's no longer necessary? Whether you use a dry type, or a wet type, or a foam type - each one is widely used in real life, motorsports, etc, and at the end of the day the "preferences" come from exactly what you're doing - marketing. You would be stunned at what we have found in terms of the issues even prominent race teams have been dealing with over the years. These compromises have certainly impacted their platforms. Unfortunately, they had no real alternative. Marketing has nothing to do with an engineering evaluation. It's time to ignore marketing and approbation and analyze these facts and make a decision that's in your best overall interest. Improvements in product technology occur each day. I'm sure you spend quite a bit of time seeking out the finest cutting edge products and technology for your clients. It's up to us to take advantage of them if we perceive a benefit. In any case, it's vital that owners are provided with accurate information in order to make an educated decision. -------------------------------------------- I think the supported tests recommend r2c filters (http://www.r2cperformance.com/) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigphil Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I dont think the hot air theory stands up to iterrogation. Everyone would suffer from it if it was that. Cold air feed or not, pop chargers dont have it and we both show the same symptoms. I'd be inclined to sway towards Phils explaination in that is a sticky butterfly as it has to be something that no one else has. Question is how do we clean the butterfly? I thought people had done this before and knackered them and were told not to clean them? cleaning the butterfly is not a problem as long as you dont move the butterfly by hand. Simply remove the throttle body and spray plenty of carb cleaner around the pivot points. You will clearly see when you remove the throttle body the build up of sticky residue which prevents the butterfly from closing properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWZ Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Cheers Mark! Don't get me started on clean air filters...what drove me to fit the k&n was my oem filter's state. I took it out to clean last week after a p1 service (which I guess they don't replace) - anyway, it had all sorts of crap in the box ranging from leaves to a fag stump !!! I kid you not!!! Anyway, I've been reading a lot from google on this stalling issue - k&n offer a 10 year warranty on these kits so I'm gonna fit the scoop and if no difference will defo be knocking on k&n's door for them to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Chris - have you got the same kit as mine - the K&N typhoon and have you got the scoop fitted? I might be inclined just to take it to K&N as they're only up the road from me. No mate, I have a pop charger. Hence why I am saying its not the filter that is causing this. My guess is the butterfly valve. cleaning the butterfly is not a problem as long as you dont move the butterfly by hand.Simply remove the throttle body and spray plenty of carb cleaner around the pivot points. You will clearly see when you remove the throttle body the build up of sticky residue which prevents the butterfly from closing properly. Thanks Phil will give it a go when I get the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWZ Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 cleaning the butterfly is not a problem as long as you dont move the butterfly by hand. Simply remove the throttle body and spray plenty of carb cleaner around the pivot points. You will clearly see when you remove the throttle body the build up of sticky residue which prevents the butterfly from closing properly. Thanks for your feedback Phil, always helpful. My only question is, surely we would have the same problems when the car is cold for this to be the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 cleaning the butterfly is not a problem as long as you dont move the butterfly by hand. Simply remove the throttle body and spray plenty of carb cleaner around the pivot points. You will clearly see when you remove the throttle body the build up of sticky residue which prevents the butterfly from closing properly. Thanks for your feedback Phil, always helpful. My only question is, surely we would have the same problems when the car is cold for this to be the problem? Well as far as I see it, we have different filters but the same problem. Cold strt is fine, revs blip, drop and then level off. When warm, revs blip, drop, but dont recover. I get the feeling that the airflow drops too much as the valve closes and it cant twist it open quick enough to recover. The fact that sometimes mine does recover suggests that somethings sticking. Either that or the warm idle needs uping a bit to cope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigphil Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 cleaning the butterfly is not a problem as long as you dont move the butterfly by hand. Simply remove the throttle body and spray plenty of carb cleaner around the pivot points. You will clearly see when you remove the throttle body the build up of sticky residue which prevents the butterfly from closing properly. Thanks for your feedback Phil, always helpful. My only question is, surely we would have the same problems when the car is cold for this to be the problem? No because the cold start is opening the throttle more so will compensate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FIDDYZ Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Maybe not as when the car is warm, the sludge will warm up so it will move more? Just a guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris`I Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Someone come and clean my butterfly valve and we'll know for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWZ Posted October 11, 2008 Author Share Posted October 11, 2008 Fitted scoop today and the problem has been fixed No more stalling when the car is warm. Thanks to everybody for their help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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