Martin W Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 This will betray my lack of technical knowledge. I went off to buy some screen washer this morning and popped the bonnet open after the 2.5 mile round trip. Noticed gurgling and Pink coolant spurting out of a little hole in the metal top plate which has a black cap marked 'coolant' Im going to let things cool b4 checking the Oil level. Anyone tell me why there is a hole at the top of the coolant system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FIDDYZ Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Cause its where the hot coolent overspills to from the rad... If it was sealed the bottle would prob explode think... You got too much coolent in there or you running hot? Strange for it to spurt over the top... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 can't say I remember what is was like pre-turbo!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Cause its where the hot coolent overspills to from the rad... If it was sealed the bottle would prob explode think... You got too much coolent in there or you running hot? Strange for it to spurt over the top... I don't have a bottle!! - its a (steel?) cylinder. I'm beginning to susepect it was there as part of the turbo conversion. No obvious place to check the coolant level !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FIDDYZ Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The plastic bottle that is normaly there (that your chrome bottle has replaced) has a outlet... I thought there was supposed to be markings for High and Low on the tank. Am guessing (and its only a guess) is that you are running very hot if its venting... What are your guages saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Well I just tried running for 5 minutes. Water temp came up to just below halfway quite quick but stayed there.... this is what it normally does Gonna let it cool again. Then check oil levels I've pinged the APS distributor, coz theres no obvious way I can see of checking Coolant level.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Martin, your plumbing set up will depend who did your tt conversion. If you are running big power then you are best with a pressurized header, non presurized expansion/return bottle and a non pressurized cap on the radiator. With the above set up you would top up the coolant from the header. Some more pictures should identify what set up you have and where to top it up. I check my oil and coolant every day mate. Both checks must be carried out from cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Had a look at your photobucket album and as you are not running big power your set up appears to be only running a "cannister and radiator. From cold, fill the "cannister" to the correct level and top the radiator to the top. If the overflow from the radiator does not dump to atmosphere then be careful when topping up the radiator that the coolant does not run from the radiator to the "cannister via the small diameter black hose or you will end up with a full "cannister and a full radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 here's a close up of the replacement 'canister'. Nothing obviously there to say 'Hey this is me - the correct level' . BTW the boost is limited to produce 385bhp peak, so its not 400+ if thats what you meant by big power. (having to multi task today - cutting the lawn, so am dotting her there and everywhere...) Logic tells me that the top of the canister - which is bolted using the 2 bolts on the front of the engine bay drivers side. must surely be somewhere at the same sort of height as midway in 'height off ground' between the MIN and MAX levels of the stock coolant bottle, and I shouls therefore top it up to that level. Another thought - Water is not compressible, so If the coolant level was very low, and there was steam in there this morning, this could build up to higher pressures than normanl and force coolant out through what must be a pressure releief valve ?? - or do i talk billhooks ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 OK - topped up - Went for 15 miles - stopped halfway Water temp gauge at its usual just below horizontal mark Opened bonnet - coolant dribbling out. Headed for home. Water temp gauge starts fluctuating - heading a third of the way towards RED, then falls and fluctuates and ends the journey exactly level. Oil Temp throughout all this at its usual 85 degrees. Coolant now gushing out all over the drive So I started out thinking a dodgy relief valve later on this morning, but does this sound like a intermittently on the way out water pump could be at fault?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam@Z1auto.com Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 the water pump is driven off the timing chain - I've never once seen one go bad, and you would know if it was at at fault (bearings would be very loud) I'd recommend doing a compression check Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 dicky thermostat ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam@Z1auto.com Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 dicky thermostat ? water temp indicated as normal on the gauge, so thermostat was opening if the heat works, thats also an indicator that the thermostat is opening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M13KYF Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 dicky thermostat ? water temp indicated as normal on the gauge, so thermostat was opening if the heat works, thats also an indicator that the thermostat is opening not all the time Headed for home. Water temp gauge starts fluctuating - heading a third of the way towards RED, then falls and fluctuates and ends the journey exactly level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 It went in for a check first thing anyway. Too risky not to really. Bogs me off that its now a 4 day wait till they can fit me in !!! What I can't figure is if its not a Pump issue, and there'ss no loud noise as mentioned above, that leaves thermostat (aka sender?) or the Little hole which must be a pressure relief valve. 1 question which might at least help my understanding is - if hypothetically I'd lost all the coolant, which i had not and there was no coolant in the system, with a normal Oil temp level, what would you expect the Water temp indicator to show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Okay, let's take a step back. Is your heater working as normal ? Where was all this coolant gushing from. (Please be exact) Water pumps have been known to fail (broken impellor) but highly unlikely in your case. Thermostat failures are rare, but this may be your problem. Radiator pressure cap failures are fairly common ( this can be checked with a pressure tester) I need to know a bit more about your plumbing Where do ALL the pipes/hoses to the "canister" come from? (please be exact) Where does the small black "overflow" pipe go to that comes from the top of the radiator? You will also now have air locks which is yet now another issue. I can only help you with an informed diagnoses if your replies are accurate. Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Okay, let's take a step back. Is your heater working as normal ? Where was all this coolant gushing from. (Please be exact) Water pumps have been known to fail (broken impellor) but highly unlikely in your case. Thermostat failures are rare, but this may be your problem. Radiator pressure cap failures are fairly common ( this can be checked with a pressure tester) Where do ALL the pipes/hoses to the "canister" come from? (please be exact) Where does the small black "overflow" pipe go to that comes from the top of the radiator? You will also now have air locks which is yet now another issue. Alex. Didn't think to check the heater, It was about 70 degrees F here yesterday. The spurts /leaks came from a machined hole in the top of the chrome coolant cylinder which can be seen in the photos. I put the car in for a compression check at 8a.m. so i can't answer more I'm afraid. Turbo installer said to fill via rad with chrome tank open. which implies only 1 pipe connecting the 2? - at the bottom - and yes I understand the airlock issue. No leaks around Rad cap, just from the top of the replacement coolant filler, whcih is in exactly the same place as the original, but smaller, so as to allow space for the Air intake pipes to put one of the Air filters in the nose at the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Okay, let's take a step back. Is your heater working as normal ? Where was all this coolant gushing from. (Please be exact) Water pumps have been known to fail (broken impellor) but highly unlikely in your case. Thermostat failures are rare, but this may be your problem. Radiator pressure cap failures are fairly common ( this can be checked with a pressure tester) Where do ALL the pipes/hoses to the "canister" come from? (please be exact) Where does the small black "overflow" pipe go to that comes from the top of the radiator? You will also now have air locks which is yet now another issue. Alex. Didn't think to check the heater, It was about 70 degrees F here yesterday. The spurts /leaks came from a machined hole in the top of the chrome coolant cylinder which can be seen in the photos. I put the car in for a compression check at 8a.m. so i can't answer more I'm afraid. Turbo installer said to fill via rad with chrome tank open. which implies only 1 pipe connecting the 2? - at the bottom - and yes I understand the airlock issue. No leaks around Rad cap, just from the top of the replacement coolant filler, whcih is in exactly the same place as the original, but smaller, so as to allow space for the Air intake pipes to put one of the Air filters in the nose at the front. Martin, Okay, on your description of your set up, this is how it is meant to work. The "canister" appears to only be a reservior which is not meant to hold pressure. I do not think that you have a relief valve fitted in your canister but I may be wrong. The only part of the sysem that is pressurised is the radiator, waterways in the engine, the hoses and the heater matrix. The cooling stystem will build up pressure as it heats up and the thermostat will open to allow the coolant to circulate and cool your engine. If there is excess pressure the radiator pressure cap will open to allow that pressure out and at the same time coolant will be removed from your radiator to the canister. If the canister gets to full then it will come out the hole on the top of your canister and be lost for good. I did not mean in my previous post that the radiator cap may be leaking, I meant that it may be faulty in that it is releasing to soon. You require a cap with at least 108kPa (1.1kg/cm2). Don't know why you have asked the garage to carry out a compression check as that will not identify your problem. If you are thinking along the lines of an internal coolant leak and you wish to check that out then what you will require is a coolant pressure test or going a bit further a Cylinder Pressure Test and to do that you or the garage will require one of these. This is a time consuming and technical job and I doubt if a Nissan garage would have the tools or the expertise to carry this test out accurately. The test has to be done to each individual cylinder with the valves closed. If you have entrusted the garage with your car, why don't you just tell them the problem that you are having with the car and ask them for a quotation to rectify the loss of coolant issue. Okay.........Back to DIY basics.... First step is to confirm if the car is loosing water and then overheating or overheating and then loosing water. If there are no leaking hoses etc then this could be something as simple as an air lock, faulty radiator cap, faulty thermostat, choked radiator or matrix. worst case may be head gasket or crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 words let me down. maybe I shoul dhave said 'pressure test' by which I meant I assume they will put a known pressure in place of the Rad Cap, which is nowhere near the source of the 'spurts' ( The chrome replacement for the stock bottle) which appears to have a machined hole almost dead centre. Its this that is spuirting. Its the sort of test Ive had Kwikfit do before years ago. The more I hink about it, I can't get why a chrome bottle (which the distributor says does not have a 'valve') should blow before the Radcap.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 words let me down. maybe I shoul dhave said 'pressure test' by which I meant I assume they will put a known pressure in place of the Rad Cap, which is nowhere near the source of the 'spurts' ( The chrome replacement for the stock bottle) which appears to have a machined hole almost dead centre. Its this that is spuirting. Its the sort of test Ive had Kwikfit do before years ago. The more I hink about it, I can't get why a chrome bottle (which the distributor says does not have a 'valve') should blow before the Radcap.!! It is not blowing before the radiator cap. The radiator cap is opening and the coolant and pressure is being released to the canister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin W Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 The radiator cap is opening and the coolant and pressure is being released to the canister. I just go on showing my ignorance.. There's no obvious connection between the Chrome expansion tank and the radiator, so I assumed the hose runs from the bottom of the tank to the rad. Turbo shop said to fill from both Rad first and top up the Tank. so i assumed there is only one connector, and this order is necessary to allow levels to equalize in both rad and tank. I haven't got a car at present to look at - will examine with interest when it sback. Local garage owner is a Z fanatic, so will pick his brain when its sorted.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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