Z to a Cayman 987?

[docwra]

51 minutes ago, pintopete58 said:

My 1971 ford pinto would eat anything off the lights even my mates R1 YAMI Couldn't get near it so don't tell me I no nothing about cars  . It's all good fun

Im not going to state the obvious ........ but you cant make a claim like that without backing it up. An R1 does a 1/4 in a flat 10 seconds, so does a Bugatti Chiron. 

Im sure there are some 1971 Pintos out there that will do a 10 second quarter but Im pretty sure they also cant actually turn a corner, or brake more than once.
Have you got any more spec for us? 

[davey_83]

41 minutes ago, docwra said:

, Ze Germans have always had the performance car game wrapped up IMO.   
 

 

Not so, anyone who remembers TOTB over the many many years would disagree with you and so would the results. It was JPN for the longest time.

 

The R33 GTR was a milestone car at the nurburgring being the fastest production car ever in its day, now the fastest every day hot hatch is the Civic type r and has been for a number of years - reasonable money cars.

 

Ten of the Best (TOTB), is a performance road car event aimed at finding the best all round car and drivers in Europe. Handling, top speed and a 1/4m drag strip are used to determine the best of the best, Ten Of The Best! 

 

German whitewash...... not even close.

 

 

 

https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/124692-90s-jdm-appreciation-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1818514

Edited March 15, 2023 by davey_83

[ilogikal1]

YouTube bingo! And to “prove” heavily modified cars built for a purpose are… I don’t even know what the point you’re trying to make is anymore, fairly sure it’s got nothing to do with whether a Cayman is a valid alternative to a Z for daily though.

[pintopete58]

8Like my mate says. 

I've owned bikes and you haven't. 

Your judging things you Know nothing about when you pull off the lights you need to get the front wheel down before you can give it  some that's why my 71 pinto embarrassed people like you 

[docwra]

1 hour ago, davey_83 said:

 

Not so, anyone who remembers TOTB over the many many years would disagree with you and so would the results. It was JPN for the longest time.

 

The R33 GTR was a milestone car at the nurburgring being the fastest production car ever in its day, now the fastest every day hot hatch is the Civic type r and has been for a number of years - reasonable money cars.

Very much so, I went to 2 of them and was on speaking terms with Mick Begley, Ron Kiddell, Andy Barnes, Simon Norris etc, we used to send a team from SXOC back in the day. 
But as @ilogikal1 says, these cars were incredibly heavily modified, you wouldnt ever see them on a trackday and they are as far away from an OE Cayman or Z33 as an F35 jet. 
So yeah, if you want the Jap scene featured the most heavily modified cars but the Germans made the best OE stuff by far. 

IMO the fastest real life hot hatch is the RS3/Golf R and has been for a while too. Cant remember where they build them though 🤔
 

Edited March 15, 2023 by docwra

[docwra]

34 minutes ago, pintopete58 said:

8Like my mate says. 

I've owned bikes and you haven't. 

Your judging things you Know nothing about when you pull off the lights you need to get the front wheel down before you can give it  some that's why my 71 pinto embarrassed people like you 

I have owned bikes, I have raced people on bikes and if you've got any kind of ability once the bike is into 2nd its going to leave the car behind. Unless youre only racing to 50mph or need to go round a corner. 
FWIW a Chiron will just beat an R1 over 1/8 mile but a Ferrari Enzo wont, terminals are about 100mph 

Anyway, tell us more about this amazing Pinto, you must know what it did a quarter in?

[davey_83]

8 minutes ago, docwra said:

Very much so, I went to 2 of them and was on speaking terms with Mick Begley, Ron Kiddell, Andy Barnes, Simon Norris etc, we used to send a team from SXOC back in the day. 
But as @ilogikal1 says, these cars were incredibly heavily modified, you wouldnt ever see them on a trackday and they are as far away from an OE Cayman or Z33 as an F35 jet. 
So yeah, if you want the Jap scene had the most heavily modified cars but the Germans made the best OE stuff by far. 

IMO the fastest real life hot hatch is the RS3/Golf R and has been for a while too. Cant remember where they build them though 🤔
 

 

Yes those were the days and the heavyweights for years and years were the JAP stuff in all aspects. Hugely modified or not the German stuff was nowhere to be seen.

 

Since the DCT/DSG era yeah for sure German 2 pedal clone boxes are the quickest thing on the road. But holy hell are they boring as dish wash, evidently speed isn't the measure of bestness otherwise EV would be king but they aren't and never will be as they have no passion much like most of the German clone boxes imo.

 

Again the 987 S is a fantastic car for its 44k new prices value when it came out, the Z34 for 27k again is a fantastic car for its price point - pretty sure we're all in agreement with that. 

[docwra]

STOP THE PRESS - @davey_83 and me agree about something 😲😲😲

I bigtime miss the old jap days - I bought my first 200SX in 2000 so watched the scene go from lads trying Laguna lip spoilers and Saab intercoolers right through to LS swaps and spaceframe builds but the early days were always the best, I particularly loved Santa Pod as you could never tell what the next car up was going to do - remember the Fensport Corolla? Man I loved that car 😍 

As a bit of a trackhead youre dead right on the 2 pedal, 4WD stuff as well, they are really, really quick but almost intuitive to drive and nowhere near as much fun - what the point of decent times if your heart rate doesnt go up? 
 
On the last bit: the Cayman is still arguably the best street car Ive driven (admittedly the 981 but 987 is pretty damn good) and I still miss my Z33 all the time, even on track in much more capable cars, they are indeed exceptional value for what youre getting. 

[davey_83]

Exactly, you watch at Santa Pod and I'd a tasty looking GTi-R was on the line, you'd a brave man to bet against it. Fensport was so desperate to get his hands on the new shape Corolla he imported a 5 door as couldn't wait for the UK 3dr to be released - absolute monster of a thing that was too. 

 

You're a bit late, as I had wrote about price point form the get go.

 

With regards to your comment re the RS3 and Golf R, yes in a straight line however the lesser powered French and Jap stuff monster them both round a track with ease.

 

981 S again talking a 50k+ car new, brilliant car however possibly a tad disingenuous to begin to compare against a 2009 27k when new car directly 🤷🏽‍♂️

Edited March 15, 2023 by davey_83

[docwra]

Price point WAS different, a 987 is the same money as a decent Z33 now and a cooking 981 is the top end of 370Z Nismo money. Hence the comparison I guess.   

[GranTurismoEra]

7 hours ago, docwra said:

Youve not driven a Cayman either, have you?  
And I wont even mention a Peugeot RC-Z being a rival to a 987S  

Fair comment as far as Stuttgart Drift goes but you only have to go to a trackday to see what the better cars are dynamically even though they generally cost more - your average Touristfahrten is probably 70% BMWs and Porsches, include Golfs and youre hitting 80%. 

Ive said it many times before, Z33's (and Z34's to a lesser extent) are great cars for the money but they dont measure up to a Cayman, until recently 2nd hand prices have definitely reflected that.   

 

I havent but ive seen numerous track videos...Im sure i can find videos where these Caymans and Boxsters are overtaken by Z with basic ecutek mods.....also if you look at the power/torque figures between both cars. Taking away weight and engine position. Youre making it seem like its miles away. Like the Z is a 200hp hatchback against a 320hp mk8 Golf R....Not the case here.

 

Advantage in the bends maybe. If that's the case youtuber track drivers like nismozeta in Poland etc should be getting smoked every time by 981 Caymans which offer similar power.   Yet hes keeping up with more powerful cars and equivalent Porsches. Sure he needed mods but it didnt cost within range of the stock Cayman. 

 

 

 

 

[GranTurismoEra]

@davey_83 like for like both cars match 295 bhp**typo and 325 bhp 987 S and 981 S..350 hr 276 bhp and 370 328 bhp..the gts is 340 hp so is the nismo. Release timings are off on the 350 to the 987/986. So you got a point but thats why i compared the 987 instead. The HR having more power than the 987 S. The R is a different fish and now £40k

 

@docwraThey can be heavily modified but basic mods and driver ability those Caymans arent going far. 

 

If you want to say Caymans are better drivers cars than Z i already agreed 15 posts ago...

 

Dont forget since 981 electric steering etc has been put in the Porsche. Sure its not all bad but each car has pros and cons. 

 

Also GT spec 370Z with some handling mods is actually better for the track in terms of weight compared to the Nismo. 

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by GranTurismoEra

[docwra]

40 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said:

Advantage in the bends maybe. If that's the case youtuber track drivers like nismozeta in Poland etc should be getting smoked every time by 981 Caymans which offer similar power.   Yet hes keeping up with more powerful cars and equivalent Porsches. Sure he needed mods but it didnt cost within range of the stock Cayman. 

The biggest difference on track is always the driver, unless you put Nismozeta in another car youre not going to get a fair comparison. 
Youre also comparing modded with OE, which we all know doesnt fly regardless of cost and having checked his spec list hes not held back on whats hes put on that 370Z either 😲

Sure, on paper the cars might seem pretty similar but we drive on tarmac, not paper 😉 
Get a test drive in a Porsche and see what you think 👍

[GranTurismoEra]

His mod list exceed the price of a stock Cayman S? I doubt it.

 

LSD

4.08 Gears

Double Oil Coolers

Modified ABS

Suspension mod

Short shifter. 

Assuming the car costs 40k+ in Poland due to EU taxation. Still short of Cayman price. These mods are not exceeding £10,000

 

Stock vs Stock no one can argue but its not night and day. The reason mods are being talked about against a stock Porsche is cost to buy and R and D on both cars are vastly different. Porsche would have spent way more developing Boxster,Cayman and 911 compared to the Z and GTR. To bring the car up from GT "barge" to track car sports car it requires light mods. Nissan know this..RND shortfall is substituted with aftermarket mods......When the field is even.......

 

Nissan only pumped £250 Million in the new Z according to leaked documents. Its costs over 4 times that to develop something close to the New Z4 let alone a Cayman from scratch.

 

Thats probably what happened with the 370Z. Shortfall on Research and Development but it's still a capable car on the track. 

 

I dunno about test drives i have my eye on something else lol....also not sure about spending £5000 on repairs year 1. We will see though

 

[davey_83]

14 hours ago, docwra said:

Price point WAS different, a 987 is the same money as a decent Z33 now and a cooking 981 is the top end of 370Z Nismo money. Hence the comparison I guess.   

 

Just this moment gone to check 987 anything less than 100,000 on the clock all well above a good 350z for similar condition/mileage. Again the 986 was the rival to a 350z, not a 987 👍

 

"German cars always been the fastest" - false

 

"Best on track" - false

 

"987 had for the costs of a good 350z" - you guessed it

 

I bet you can't lie straight in bed 🤣 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by davey_83

[Ekona]

I can’t believe that anyone is seriously arguing that a 987 isn’t better than a Z33 (or a Z34, for that matter) in any way that matters. Yes it should be better because of the initial cost, but still it’s better. 
 

Whether the individual prefers it or not is a different kettle of fish, of course. 
 

And yes, the Z33 is great value for the money. The 987 just happens to be even better right now. 

[Stutopia]

Wow, this thread has got some gold in it.

 

FWIW, MX-5 is better than both.

 

Cheaper to buy + slower + worse interior + cheaper parts + less pretty = BETTER

[davey_83]

8 hours ago, Stutopia said:

FWIW, MX-5 is better than both.

 

Cheaper to buy + slower + worse interior + cheaper parts + less pretty = BETTER

 

Yes another fantastic little car and said to be the best in class for its price point ☺️

[docwra]

14 hours ago, davey_83 said:

 

Just this moment gone to check 987 anything less than 100,000 on the clock all well above a good 350z for similar condition/mileage. Again the 986 was the rival to a 350z, not a 987 👍

 

"German cars always been the fastest" - false

 

"Best on track" - false

 

"987 had for the costs of a good 350z" - you guessed it

 

I bet you can't lie straight in bed 🤣 

 

 

Seriously? 
A 987 is a facelift 986 with a roof and some more power, they were both on sale the same time as the 350Z which - incredibly - could also be had with or without a roof.
While the Porsches cost more new, its exactly what I said - youve posted some 987s for £12 - 15K and oh look:

15K 350Z https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303034848578
17K 350Z https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202302284719221 
12K 350Z https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202303135202602

The cheapest 987 is £7500, cheapest 986 is less than £5K. And what about 981's, did you miss that bit?

As for the rest (including calling me a liar, WTF is that all about?) I CBA as I know youre wrong, anyone that drives seriously knows youre wrong, and you probably know youre wrong too, I cant understand why you feel the need to repeatedly prove it.    

Edited as I missed a bit on 986, cheers Eddie

Edited March 16, 2023 by docwra

[Eddie_r32]

Doc a 987 isn't a 986 with a roof, you know this.

 

And Ekona to flat out say a 987 is a better car than a z is idiotic, they are different cars once a mid engined sports car other is a traditional GT car. An s class is a better car than a 987.

[GranTurismoEra]

10 hours ago, Stutopia said:

Wow, this thread has got some gold in it.

 

FWIW, MX-5 is better than both.

 

Cheaper to buy + slower + worse interior + cheaper parts + less pretty = BETTER

 

Enough said! Horses for Courses. Lets put the 987 as an HR rival. Due to the timing and specs. Well kinda. 

[davey_83]

1 hour ago, Eddie_r32 said:

Doc a 987 isn't a 986 with a roof, you know this.

 

 

I paused there after reading his comment and didn't want to risk another dishonest discussion

Edited March 16, 2023 by davey_83

[GranTurismoEra]

1 hour ago, Eddie_r32 said:

Doc a 987 isn't a 986 with a roof, you know this.

 

And Ekona to flat out say a 987 is a better car than a z is idiotic, they are different cars once a mid engined sports car other is a traditional GT car. An s class is a better car than a 987.

 

So is the Cayman S an out and out sports car at 1475 kg? 😮... ooof...

 

Haha...Like Rihanna said

 

"shutup and drive, drive, drive" 🤣🤣

[Stutopia]

1 hour ago, davey_83 said:

 

I paused there after reading his comment and didn't want to risk another dishonest discussion

 

That's a bit rich given endless threads about conspiracies based on little more than fantasy. Careful who you accuse of being dishonest.

[davey_83]

23 minutes ago, Stutopia said:

 

That's a bit rich given endless threads about conspiracies based on little more than fantasy. Careful who you accuse of being dishonest.

 

You're right, it's not dishonesty it's a clear lack of basic understanding. How can one begin to compare a 350z to a 987 Cayman if you don't actually know what a 987 Cayman is. That was an absolute clanger to say it's a 986 with a tin top. It's like saying a VW Golf Mk7 is  an Eos with a hatch. For this particular discussion all his credibility went out the window with that one statement, as it's clear he doesn't know what he's actually going on about.