First time machine polishing advice

[Jack94]

So I've always been a detailing enthusiast but been too scared to attempt machine polishing, mainly due to the horror stories you hear of people burning through paint or clear coat after generating too much heat/friction from a rotary polisher. 

 

However after doing some research into DA polishers they look far safer and can't really cause any damage unless you're doing something really wrong.

I'm looking to buy one ready for when the better weather arrives, so I can give my new R8 a good once over. There's not really any defects in the paint, I'd just like to get it looking as good as possible, so I think a single stage polish with a mild compound should be sufficient?

 

I'd love to hear people's reccomendations on which DA polisher, pads & 1 stage polish to go for 🙂

 

Here's my plan-

1. Pre wash: Bilt hamber auto foam
2. Decontaminate: Bilt hamber korrosol & auto finesse oblitarate
3. 2 bucket wash: Autoglym bodywork shampoo & conditioner
4. Clay bar: Bilt hamber auto clay
5. Dry: Towel/blow, autoglym rapid detailer as drying aid
6. Single stage DA machine polish: ???
7. IPA wipedown: Bilt hamber cleanser fluid
8. Wheel sealant: Gtechniq C5
9. Arch liner dressing: Chemical guys bare bones
10. Ceramic coating: Gtechniq C1 crystal lacquer

 

Happy to consider any suggestions for different products or extra steps. 

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Jack94

[ilogikal1]

For first time polishing, it might take a bit of trial and error to get the right pad/compound combo for the paint - German paint is typically hard, but it's always best to start with the least aggressive combo and work your way up until you get the cut you're after.

That said, I'd probably start with a medium combo and go in with Scholl S30+ on an orange Lake County Hydrotech pad, as a starter and possibly move up to S20 and/or blue pad if needed - don't step up both at the same time, either change the pad OR the polish first (although it doesn't really matter which you step up first, I typically prefer to change the polish before the pad personally).

 

I'm a fan of Scholl polishes because they don't contain fillers but are well lubricated and do contain deminishing abbrassives so they finish down well (when worked properly). Similiarly I prefer flat pads to dimpled/hex pads simply because I find it easier to manage clogging and working the polish evenly on a flat pad, but others may have different preferences.

 

Other than that, standard advice really - work the polish properly and thoroughly before moving on or adding more polish and focus on working on smaller areas rather than trying to cover too much of the panel at once; less is more especially when you're still learning what works for you and the paint. Focus on technique and controlling the machine properly at first, and consider smaller spot pads (and backing plate) when tackling curves or smaller areas - you always want to keep the pad flat on the surface at all times.

Provided you're sensible, pay attention to what you're doing and take your time you can't really get it wrong.

 

Oh, and practice on horizontal panels first. Those machines are heavier than they look when you're working on vertical panels!

[Jack94]

Lots of very useful info in there, thanks very much! 

 

I don't think I'll need a very aggressive compound because the most I'll be trying to remove is very light swirl marks, so I think the S30+ will have more than enough cut. Worked properly should that leave a nice finish ready for sealing? Or would I need to do a final pass with a lighter compound? 

 

From what I understand, fillers help reduce the appearance of imperfections, which I thought would be a good thing? 

 

Interesting you prefer flat pads over dimpled/hex, are there benefits/drawbacks to each or is it simply personal preference? 

 

I think I'll definitely need some smaller pads on some of the more intricate areas, unsurprisingly most demonstration videos only show a flat bonnet being done 😂 

 

Are some machines better than others or are they all pretty much the same? The Meguiars one seems popular but isn't cheap. 

[mr v6]

I'd get yourself onto Detailing World, have a good read. Just remember, some of them on there think you need a 40 stage wash & decontamination session lasting 3 weeks.. You really don't need as many products as you think if you're starting out. I've got an old school Kestrel DAS6, had it for about 12 years & it's never missed a beat. I have a couple of 4" pads, 6" pads & 2 polishes, that's more than enough for me for my usage. A couple of tins of wax, a clay bar & a few other bits, you certainly don't need a whole lockup full of the stuff.

[ilogikal1]

57 minutes ago, Jack94 said:

Lots of very useful info in there, thanks very much!

No problem at all, happy to help. Just remember to post pictures of your work to show your gratitude.

 

59 minutes ago, Jack94 said:

I don't think I'll need a very aggressive compound because the most I'll be trying to remove is very light swirl marks, so I think the S30+ will have more than enough cut. Worked properly should that leave a nice finish ready for sealing? Or would I need to do a final pass with a lighter compound? 

 

From what I understand, fillers help reduce the appearance of imperfections, which I thought would be a good thing?

S30+ finishes down really well even on soft paint so you shouldn't need anything lighter to finish - you might want to consider a finishing pad (red one of the LC Hydrotech range) but I wouldn't say it was essential, especially on harder paint, to be honest. That said, if you're planning on polishing regularly (or other cars even) then there's no har in having one to hand, even if you don't use it this time.

 

Fillers serve a purpose, especially where you're looking to get a good finish without removing as much paint, but in my opinion unless there's a reason to rely on fillers it's better to get the paint perfect and not have to rely on fillers. The biggest downside to fillers is that they will both reduce the durability of your LSP/protection and ultimately the swirls will reappear sooner than if you correct them. It's a trade off but there's no right or wrong answer.

 

You don't mention what LSP you're planning to use in your first post, but things like coatings don't work well with fillers and it won't bond, so the coating will fail much sooner. Similarly most sealants will strip the fillers due to the solvents anyway. Waxes and fillers get on better, but again the wax is bonding to the fillers rather than the paint so tends to fail sooner than when applied to bare paint.

You did mention an IPA wipedown after polishing though which will also remove any fillers, for reference.

 

1 hour ago, Jack94 said:

Interesting you prefer flat pads over dimpled/hex, are there benefits/drawbacks to each or is it simply personal preference?

As with many, many dtailing products, if you ignore the marketing; simply personal preference to be quite honest. Any differences, largely beyond how you clean them, will be imperceptible. I find unworked polish tends to gather in the dimples/hex so the polish isn't worked evenly, compared to a flat pad where the polish has nowhere to hide as it were.

 

1 hour ago, Jack94 said:

Are some machines better than others or are they all pretty much the same? The Meguiars one seems popular but isn't cheap. 

They are much (or in most cases when talking about DAs, literally) the same machine under the casing. Pretty much all of the machines on the market are actually the DAS6 - the exceptions being the Rupes and Flex offerings. Megs is, I believe, "based on" rather than the same machine in a Megs casing, but you're basically paying for the name.

The main difference is between the DAS6 and DAS6 Pro - the latter having a slightly more powerful motor. The standard 6 is a good machine that will serve you well, the Pro is just a little bit more powerful but won't be revolutionary in its difference. There's also the Pro Plus model these days, which looks different and is based on the Rupes - again, slightly more powerful but not revolutionary.

 

Choose one you like the look of and is priced at what you're willing to pay, you won't be missing out on anything over any of the others - just try to stick to the known brands, if it does develop a fault you're either relying on it being replaced/fixed or being cheap enough to be disposable.

[zelda]

I bought a Vonhaus DA polisher 4 years ago and it's been great for my needs. Best part about it is probably the cable length, which IIRC is about 5m.

[Jack94]

14 hours ago, mr v6 said:

I'd get yourself onto Detailing World, have a good read. Just remember, some of them on there think you need a 40 stage wash & decontamination session lasting 3 weeks.. You really don't need as many products as you think if you're starting out. I've got an old school Kestrel DAS6, had it for about 12 years & it's never missed a beat. I have a couple of 4" pads, 6" pads & 2 polishes, that's more than enough for me for my usage. A couple of tins of wax, a clay bar & a few other bits, you certainly don't need a whole lockup full of the stuff.

 

Thanks yeah I'm not a member but do regularly browse detailing world when I'm looking for product reccomendations etc. 

Tonnes of useful info on there but I agree some of it is OTT.

I've already got an arsenal of supplies so I think the only things I'll need to buy are the machine, some pads & some polish.

 

13 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

No problem at all, happy to help. Just remember to post pictures of your work to show your gratitude.

 

I'll be sure to post up some photos once it's all done and sparkling 😄

 

13 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

S30+ finishes down really well even on soft paint so you shouldn't need anything lighter to finish - you might want to consider a finishing pad (red one of the LC Hydrotech range) but I wouldn't say it was essential, especially on harder paint, to be honest. That said, if you're planning on polishing regularly (or other cars even) then there's no har in having one to hand, even if you don't use it this time.

 

Perfect. Ideally I'm just looking to use one product and one type of pad for my first attempt, although I might try hex and flat varieties of the same pad just to see if I prefer one or the other. I'm guessing it'd be a good idea to get some smaller pads for the more intricate areas too? Will one of each be sufficient?

 

13 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

Fillers serve a purpose, especially where you're looking to get a good finish without removing as much paint, but in my opinion unless there's a reason to rely on fillers it's better to get the paint perfect and not have to rely on fillers. The biggest downside to fillers is that they will both reduce the durability of your LSP/protection and ultimately the swirls will reappear sooner than if you correct them. It's a trade off but there's no right or wrong answer.

 

 

That makes complete sense, and in that case I agree that removing the imperfections is better than hiding them! Plus if I'm going to all the effort to apply a coating, I'd like it to last as long as possible. 

I thought a ceramic coating was an LSP?

 

13 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

They are much (or in most cases when talking about DAs, literally) the same machine under the casing.

 

I thought this might be the case. From the reviews I've read the DAS6 Pro is the same machine as the standard DAS6 just improved, but worth the extra money (still less than half the price of the megs offering). The Pro plus is bigger and has a larger throw, which I guess makes bigger panels quicker/easier to deal with but it's not suitable for smaller areas because the smallest backing plate you can put on it is 5".

 

13 hours ago, zelda said:

I bought a Vonhaus DA polisher 4 years ago and it's been great for my needs. Best part about it is probably the cable length, which IIRC is about 5m.

 

Thanks for the input, the Das6 Pro comes with a 6 metre cable 🙂

[ilogikal1]

11 hours ago, Jack94 said:

I thought a ceramic coating was an LSP?

 

It is. That was me not reading all proper and/or failing to pay attention.

Having read it properly this time (!) you'll defintely want to avoid relying on fillers to get the best out the coating.

 

11 hours ago, Jack94 said:

I'm guessing it'd be a good idea to get some smaller pads for the more intricate areas too? Will one of each be sufficient?

 

I'd go for 2-3 pads (in total), to be honest. It's possible to do it with just one pad, but you won't get round a full car before you need to clean the pad - usually at that point, I chuck the pad in a bucket to soak whilst I move onto using the second or third pad and then wash them all properly when I'm finished; whilst washing a pad can be done reasonably quickly, because they're dense foam they do take forever to dry afterwards (although, again, there are ways around that if you're determined - including, but not limited to, using the machine to spin dry or if you've got the time and space to allow the pad to air dry over night, for example).

That might give you a good reason (excuse) to try out flat versus dimpled/hex pad though by getting one of each.

I definitely recommend getting a couple of spot pads for the smaller areas, it's so much easier than trying to find a work around.

 

If you're using spot pads you'll most likely be fine with 2 large pads and one (or two, if you have a lot of fiddly areas) spot pads to do the whole car in one go.

 

Just to touch on the machines again, if it helps at all, I've had a Kestral DAS6 for over a decade and used quite a lot of "different" machines over the years; I've never been tempted to change it out for anything else I've used except for the Rupes.

[Jack94]

20 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

It is. That was me not reading all proper and/or failing to pay attention.

 

Okay phew, you had me confused there for a moment. 

 

20 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

If you're using spot pads you'll most likely be fine with 2 large pads and one (or two, if you have a lot of fiddly areas) spot pads to do the whole car in one go.

 

Definitely sounds easier to have a few pads and swap them as you go rather than having to stop and properly clean/dry a single one. 

Do you use anything specific when cleaning the pads after use? 

Everyone seems to rave about the Scholl Neo honey spider pad used with S30+ but they don't offer it in smaller sizes sadly. 

If using multiple sizes of pad is it important to stick with the same brand/model to get consistent results? 

 

20 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

I've had a Kestral DAS6 for over a decade and used quite a lot of "different" machines over the years; I've never been tempted to change it out for anything else I've used except for the Rupes.

 

You mentioned the Rupes and Flex machines are different to DAS6 machines before, how so? 

 

Also got a couple more questions (apologies if they're stupid ones)... 

 

My R8 has carbon fibre side blades, can they be polished using the same product/process? 

Similarly are there any differences when polishing a painted plastic bumper compared to a painted metal (in my case aluminium) panel? 

 

[ilogikal1]

On 02/02/2023 at 16:02, Jack94 said:

Do you use anything specific when cleaning the pads after use?

Nope, I just use any liquid soap and water - massage the soap through the pad until it's clean, rinse through thoroughly to remove the soap and then leave to dry.

 

On 02/02/2023 at 16:02, Jack94 said:

If using multiple sizes of pad is it important to stick with the same brand/model to get consistent results?

Again, nope. No one will be able to tell the difference, it'll just determine how much you have to work at it to get the result you're after really.

 

On 02/02/2023 at 16:02, Jack94 said:

You mentioned the Rupes and Flex machines are different to DAS6 machines before, how so?

Rupes DA is more simlar to the DAS6 Pro Plus - it's got the larger throw and the typical rotary-style look to it, etc - however Flex and Rupes and Flex make their own machines whilst all the DAS6 and DAS6 Pros (at least the ones I know of) are all made in the same factory, or at least using the same parts and assembly instructions.

 

On 02/02/2023 at 16:02, Jack94 said:

Also got a couple more questions (apologies if they're stupid ones)... 

 

My R8 has carbon fibre side blades, can they be polished using the same product/process? 

Similarly are there any differences when polishing a painted plastic bumper compared to a painted metal (in my case aluminium) panel?

There are no stupid questions.

 

Yes, carbon fibre can be polished in the same way, just go gently at first as it's possible (perhaps likely) that the gel-coat/top-coat will be a different hardness to the paint. All the same principals apply though.

 

Not really any difference when using a DA to be honest - there's a small need to be more aware of heat build up when using a rotary on a plastic panel than on a metal one, but a you'll struggle to generate any heat related issues with a DA unless you're really, really, trying.

[Jack94]

20 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

Nope, I just use any liquid soap and water - massage the soap through the pad until it's clean, rinse through thoroughly to remove the soap and then leave to dry.

 

Sounds simple enough! I saw you can buy specific pad cleaning devices but guessed this was just a marketing ploy. 

 

20 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

Again, nope. No one will be able to tell the difference, it'll just determine how much you have to work at it to get the result you're after really.

 

Okay great, in that case I might get a scholl neo honey spider pad to see what all the fuss is about. 

 

20 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

Yes, carbon fibre can be polished in the same way, just go gently at first as it's possible (perhaps likely) that the gel-coat/top-coat will be a different hardness to the paint. All the same principals apply though.

 

Not really any difference when using a DA to be honest - there's a small need to be more aware of heat build up when using a rotary on a plastic panel than on a metal one, but a you'll struggle to generate any heat related issues with a DA unless you're really, really, trying.

 

Good to know it's the same principles with carbon or plastic.

I guess when working with any new surface it's safest to start off with the least aggressive combo until you work out how hard it is, then you can always step things up. 

[Azurez33]

Seems like you’ve already got the low down from one of the pros! 

 

I too have been on a journey for knowledge and to get better at detailing like the pros, I’ve found like everything you’re never happy  enough 😂 

 

Always wanted a rupes nano foot, they are meant to be one of the best! I’ve got the poorboys da and seems to do the job, paired it up with a range of hex logic pads and they work pretty well for me! 

 

ive never tried washing the sponges with hot soapy water 😂 I’m always scared of washing up liquid unless doing a full reset! I bought the chemical brothers pad cleaning compound and brush, maybe I just wanted to pay them money 😂

 

Like illogical said just go easy on the carbon, I just go in the middle of the compound  ranks if it doesn’t remove the imperfections carefully move up the scale 😂

 

this was before and after a couple of passes, think like the man said the top coat is a lot softer than on car paint 

[Jack94]

1 hour ago, Azurez33 said:

I’ve found like everything you’re never happy  enough 😂 

 

That's my problem too! I'm a perfectionist so I'm never happy unless something is absolutely spot on 😅 

 

1 hour ago, Azurez33 said:

Always wanted a rupes nano foot, they are meant to be one of the best!

 

The Rupes nano definitely does seem to be rated as one of the best, and very versitile with the changeable heads, battery or corded etc.

Very expensive though and not sure I'd have need for half the bits included. 

 

The hexlogic pads seem really popular so might get one to try out and see how I get on 😊 

 

1 hour ago, Azurez33 said:

I bought the chemical brothers pad cleaning compound and brush, maybe I just wanted to pay them money 😂

 

 

Yep I think you may well have just bought into their marketing hype, I might end up doing the same, we shall see 😂 

 

That carbon certainly looks a lot better after a couple of passes 😍 

 

Do you guys use masking tape to cover up trims etc when doing a whole car? 

[Azurez33]

3 hours ago, Jack94 said:

 

That's my problem too! I'm a perfectionist so I'm never happy unless something is absolutely spot on 😅 

 

 

The Rupes nano definitely does seem to be rated as one of the best, and very versitile with the changeable heads, battery or corded etc.

Very expensive though and not sure I'd have need for half the bits included. 

 

The hexlogic pads seem really popular so might get one to try out and see how I get on 😊 

 

 

Yep I think you may well have just bought into their marketing hype, I might end up doing the same, we shall see 😂 

 

That carbon certainly looks a lot better after a couple of passes 😍 

 

Do you guys use masking tape to cover up trims etc when doing a whole car? 

You’re not alone haha! 

I think the other thing is it’s not just the masses saying this is the best one go for this, it’s industry tried and tested. I will get one in the future but for now have to do with what I’ve got! 

 

yeah they seem really popular, I’d say fairly priced, not sure about functionality over similar products, not sure if the “hex” is more of a gimmick rather than a purpose, I’ve always wondered if it was channeling to spread product as opposed to other brands more surface contact? 

 

yeah I think I did too tbh! but now I have a fancy brush for cleaning my pads 😂😂😂 I think the brush will be more useful than the spray- again it states it helps soften any product left over and reduce damage to your pad - whether there’s any truth I don’t know! 
 

yeab really does come through much better! Got to spend some more time on it though but it’s not a necessity haha! 
 

I think best way to learn is by time on the equipment, and painful as it may be making mistakes along the way, there’s hundreds of people who say do this do that but the functionalities stay the same 😂

[ilogikal1]

Pad cleaning machines are awesome but not essential - they're an expensive, non-essential appliance that clean pads in seconds without any real effort.

 

Pad cleaning detergent is one of those things I won't pay the detailing tax for (like APC, which actually is a perfectly viable alternative), but if it works for you and you're happy to spend out for it I'm not going to sit here and tell you you're wrong either.

What I will say though, regarding "softening" left over product, putting spent pads in a bucket of water to soak whilst you finish up (or pack up) will prevent any product from hardening in the first place.

 

I couldn't agree more with the notion of trying different things to find what works for you, so long as you're happy with something then it doesn't really matter if anyone else likes it or not - case in point, some people on here swear by Auto Glym products because they can pick them up from Halfords, other people like decent products instead.

 

 

11 hours ago, Jack94 said:

Do you guys use masking tape to cover up trims etc when doing a whole car?

When starting out, I would tape up religiously. As I've got more confident with the machine I find I tape up less these days and it tends to be key areas or where I know residue will be a pain to remove (prevention > cure, and all that).

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again; washing up liquid doesn't remove LSPs. It just doesn't.