...the 2021 F1 Chat Thread

[davey_83]

2 hours ago, coldel said:

The one in the last race was borderline. But those sort of things happen. It’s the other (at least 5 times this season) where he has dangerously gone into a corner and only the car in front giving up the place avoids a collision. He is out of control of the car heading into a corner with an opponent in front of him, that is unacceptable. 
 

And Masi did say that, but not about the overtake. 
 

Max has been penalised enough in his career, more so than most, because of his dangerous driving. If it’s in the rules then you wonder why the penalties keep coming … most on the grid know he is more dangerous than most anyone who says otherwise is completely blinkered. 

 

Yes dangerous driving is bad of course it is and rightly penalties should be given accordingly. 

 

Should Lewis have given the place back on the first, lap running off the track to maintain place position? 

[Ekona]

No, it was 50/50. Max shouldn’t have lunged, Lewis should’ve lifted more, so I’d call it even. Tbh it was actually a decent call, to be fair on Masi. 

[coldel]

1 hour ago, davey_83 said:

 

Yes dangerous driving is bad of course it is and rightly penalties should be given accordingly. 

 

Should Lewis have given the place back on the first, lap running off the track to maintain place position? 

 

He didnt run off track to maintain place position, he ran off track to avoid a collision. Max was carrying too much speed into the corner to allow Lewis enough space to continue racing and understeering once again which can be seen with the extreme entry and exit angles. Max had a nose on him into the apex (because he was going too fast) and then couldn't maintain any sort of controlled line on the exit. Lewis had two choices, be hit or evade. Max only got the position by forcing Lewis off the track. In my mind, they gave the right outcome that you have gained an unfair advantage by forcing another car off track, so there was no advantage to give back. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by coldel

[marzman]

I like aggressive overtaking... if your actions can get your opponent to yield, then happy days.  Its his extremely aggressive defending i can't stand.  Brazil turn 4 being the best example, and Silverstone as well.  He was beaten in both examples, but he chose to be too aggressive.  Silverstone he should have yielded, didnt, and ended up in hospital.  Brazil was just disgusting imho... entirely missed the corner himself 'defending' forcing his opponent off track. You just cant race against someone like that.

[coldel]

I think he just needs to learn some proper race craft, he should have by now, if he can add that to his clear on track speed he should be unbeatable if RB can sort themselves out longer term. He does though strike me as someone who doesn't learn from his mistakes, there is something of a self entitlement to his driving. I do love an aggressive driver I think all race fans do, but not one that oversteps the mark by such a margin - to be honest when I look back at the season at his divebombing and see how Lewis evades contact you only have to be in some awe as to how good these drivers are to avoid being hit with everything going at such a pace, there is a lot more skill to getting out the way than the out of control overtake!

[davey_83]

This is like gogglebox when you see the folks giving criticism towards an x factor singer however brushing off the fact that never in a million lifetimes could they ever do better themselves. 

 

I could take onboard what you're saying if this was Max Vs Jenson discussion on driver aggressiveness. Lewis is known for his hard driving style and the years has left other drivers no other choice than to a say you say be hit or evade off track. Lewis tends to do it on corner exit, Max mid corner but running off is running off. 

 

All this about Lewis being a good sport..... 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by davey_83

[coldel]

I think we can all give an opinion having watched enough of it. And that most of us who aren’t Max super fanboys align with pundits drivers and team owners in terms of how he drives, as I say only the most blinkered think he drives as aggressive as anyone else. 
 

…and yes Lewis and Toto should have gone to the awards. 
 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by coldel

[ilogikal1]

There is one good thing coming from Lewis not attending the awards though; Mohammed bin Sulayem has admitted that "rules are rules". Which doesn't bode too well for Michael Masi.

 

 

[davey_83]

They should have. 

 

Never said anyone drives equally aggressive. I'm not a super fan of Max, just not a fan of Lewis the cry baby. When he's winner it's all smiles and he thanks the fans, the team, his team mate, his competitors and praises the car. When he looses however, the team is crap, Nico has the better mechanics the car is rubbish and the crowd can do one *attitude - never any blame accepted on his behalf for poor performance. 

 

He's not a good sport and has been bully on the track. Roll on 2022's season. 

[coldel]

1 hour ago, davey_83 said:

They should have. 

 

Never said anyone drives equally aggressive. I'm not a super fan of Max, just not a fan of Lewis the cry baby. When he's winner it's all smiles and he thanks the fans, the team, his team mate, his competitors and praises the car. When he looses however, the team is crap, Nico has the better mechanics the car is rubbish and the crowd can do one *attitude - never any blame accepted on his behalf for poor performance. 

 

He's not a good sport and has been bully on the track. Roll on 2022's season. 

 

 

Yes missing the ceremony smacked of sour grapes, it was definitely a '**** you FIA' act which they should have rose above. 

 

I cannot believe you think Lewis is a cry baby, did you not see the end of the grand prix? Congratulated RB and Max, despite literally having it taken from him in the dying minutes took it on the chin. I think its clear if there are whingers of the paddock Mr Horner is right up there (and you see that in the Drive to Survive series on Amazon) - when it comes to the 'cry baby' antics as you put it, definitely RB are kings of the ring on that front deflecting their own failings the last 5-6 years in that way.

[docwra]

4 hours ago, davey_83 said:

This is like gogglebox when you see the folks giving criticism towards an x factor singer however brushing off the fact that never in a million lifetimes could they ever do better themselves. 

Considering your recent posts on another subject, anyone else struggling to breathe from the blanket of irony that has just appeared?     
Im actually crying here, thats amazing  

Regardless, are you honestly saying no-one can have an opinion on what makes a good goal, a great innings, a championship performance in a fight because we arent elite sportsmen ourselves?

Of course we can, sport is all about spectators and you dont even need to understand the rules to appreciate an exceptional performance, never mind be an expert. 
When there are pretty clearly stated rules and someone is continually breaking them it becomes impossible to ignore, I doubt Im as fast as Max but I bet I have less accidents on track.  

 

[SWoMP]

38 minutes ago, coldel said:

 

 

Yes missing the ceremony smacked of sour grapes, it was definitely a '**** you FIA' act which they should have rose above. 

 

I cannot believe you think Lewis is a cry baby, did you not see the end of the grand prix? Congratulated RB and Max, despite literally having it taken from him in the dying minutes took it on the chin. I think its clear if there are whingers of the paddock Mr Horner is right up there (and you see that in the Drive to Survive series on Amazon) - when it comes to the 'cry baby' antics as you put it, definitely RB are kings of the ring on that front deflecting their own failings the last 5-6 years in that way.

"Red Bull gives you Whinge"

[ilogikal1]

2 hours ago, coldel said:

 

 

Yes missing the ceremony smacked of sour grapes, it was definitely a '**** you FIA' act which they should have rose above. 

 

I cannot believe you think Lewis is a cry baby, did you not see the end of the grand prix? Congratulated RB and Max, despite literally having it taken from him in the dying minutes took it on the chin. I think its clear if there are whingers of the paddock Mr Horner is right up there (and you see that in the Drive to Survive series on Amazon) - when it comes to the 'cry baby' antics as you put it, definitely RB are kings of the ring on that front deflecting their own failings the last 5-6 years in that way.

 

Let's not let facts get int he way of a mediocre trolling, please. If we were to do that we only need to look at the last two two races; Max loses a race, he storms off the podium in a huff without having spoken to anyone (let alone congratulating them) except the mandated interview where he whinged. Lewis loses the championship (not just the race) and he congratulates his competitor, their team and takes the time to recognise his own teams efforts.

 

It's clear to anyone, including those simply craving attention, who the so-called "cry baby" is.

[davey_83]

3 hours ago, docwra said:

Regardless, are you honestly saying no-one can have an opinion on what makes a good goal, a great innings, a championship performance in a fight because we arent elite sportsmen ourselves?

Of course we can, sport is all about spectators and you dont even need to understand the rules to appreciate an exceptional performance, never mind be an expert. 
When there are pretty clearly stated rules and someone is continually breaking them it becomes impossible to ignore, I doubt Im as fast as Max but I bet I have less accidents on track.  

 

 

Anyone can have an opinion and that's all it is. I'm on board with comments towards character, however "needs to learn some proper race craft" not even David Coulthard could preach to Max let alone anyone on here moreover it smacks of hubris. 

 

You wouldn't get the car around a single lap while pointing the right way. 

[coldel]

1 hour ago, davey_83 said:

 

Anyone can have an opinion and that's all it is. I'm on board with comments towards character, however "needs to learn some proper race craft" not even David Coulthard could preach to Max let alone anyone on here moreover it smacks of hubris. 

 

You wouldn't get the car around a single lap while pointing the right way. 

 

So despite not being an elite footballer, a member of the general public cannot state what makes a great footballer? 

 

I think any genuine race fan knows Lewis is a more complete racer than Max, and where the advantages lie. Because they spend years watching it and see what sets racers apart. 

 

If you cannot see where Max's shortcomings in terms of race craft are, that's just a reflection of the limits of your understanding rather than any reflection of the population at large.

 

[ilogikal1]

23 hours ago, coldel said:

I think he just needs to learn some proper race craft

 

Ahem.

 

The first two words indicate the rest of the sentence is an opinion. And "anyone can have an opinion". So... what's the issue here, exactly?

 

It barely hints of hubris, let alone smacks of it. It's not like Col has gone and stated his opinion as if it were a fact. Like a person informing a virtual stranger what they aren't capable of in "the car" without any actual knowledge of ability. For example.

 

I mean, if we're getting picky and all. And by picky, I mean throwing a strop because someone else has expressed an opinion.

[Ekona]

I don’t like Lewis as a person. Way too try hard to be cool, dresses like a knob, preachy to hell, the list goes on. When he was younger he drove like a twit at times, and other racers called him out on it too. 
 

Max is far more media trained to fall into the first camp, but he’s bang smack in the second one. He’ll grow up and realise the mistakes he’s making, and no doubt become an incredible driver who gets on with it like Lewis has become. Sure, Lewis has his moments mid-race, but afterwards he’s the perfect gent for the most part as he’s got the experience. Max is a petulant child-man for the most part when things don’t go his way, buts that’s okay as he is just a kid still. 
 

Look at Vettel: hated for smugness and whinging when he was winning 24/7, but now one of the most likeable men off track currently competing. Age changes people, and that will happen with Max. 
 

How anyone can argue that Max takes far more aggressive risks on track atm than any other driver is beyond me. Lewis may be a tit off the circuit, but when at work it’s incredible to watch and how he kept his cool after the championship was lost is a credit to him and makes him an ideal role model for any young racer. 

[davey_83]

My opinion generally isn't the reflection of the populous and for good measure 😀 

 

Can you picture the scenario, you've gone to the Australian open and just witness Djokovic winning his first grand slam - he goes over to sign a few autographs and a time served screen watcher *Steve having never played the game competitively goes "mate, congratulations but your back swing down the line needs work" he would think there's a secret camera watching to capture his reaction. It's all about credentials and Steve wouldn't have any. 

 

I personally don't get it.

Edited December 21, 2021 by davey_83

[coldel]

15 hours ago, davey_83 said:

My opinion generally isn't the reflection of the populous and for good measure 😀 

 

Can you picture the scenario, you've gone to the Australian open and just witness Djokovic winning his first grand slam - he goes over to sign a few autographs and a time served screen watcher *Steve having never played the game competitively goes "mate, congratulations but your back swing down the line needs work" he would think there's a secret camera watching to capture his reaction. It's all about credentials and Steve wouldn't have any. 

 

I personally don't get it.

 

Because that person may have watched tennis for decades, seen all the best players play, seen Djokovic lose points on his back hand down the line repeatedly, then made the observation. Steve's experience watching the game, comparing players, seeing their strengths and weaknesses, makes that observation as his opinion. 

 

Having watched my team West Ham I can tell you Masuaku cannot defend to a level that Cresswell can, in fact his defensive capabilities are well down on other players in the team and its his weak point despite being a defender. But his strength is going forwards and overlapping and providing that outlet. I can tell you Kane's finishing is better than Antonio's but Antonio's hold up play is much better than Kane's, so on and so forth. 

 

Would Djokovic react weird if Steve said that, yes of course because its totally out of context. If Djokovic had lost a lot of points on his back hand in that match would Steve not be able to identify that and have an opinion on it, of course he can. 

 

[coldel]

15 hours ago, davey_83 said:

It's all about credentials and Steve wouldn't have any. 

 

...but that didn't stop members of the public with no credentials in science, medicine or human biology having opinions on how vaccines work, did it?

[davey_83]

Point being the conversation would never take place in real life, here in forum world behind a keyboard pomp is expressed without requiring credential. 

 

In an attempt to reach a resolution, you're having a sit down with Max to discuss his race craft - what advise would you give on to to improve this area of his inventory? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now only you will know honestly the first thoughts that came into your mind, mentally if a list of effective hints and tips materialised then fair play to you. If you an answer didn't naturally form in your mind, it's then a fruitless endeavour.

[davey_83]

13 minutes ago, coldel said:

 

...but that didn't stop members of the public with no credentials in science, medicine or human biology having opinions on how vaccines work, did it?

 

Evidently so, not the place or time to converse. PM me by all means if this is a genuine question.

[coldel]

8 minutes ago, davey_83 said:

Point being the conversation would never take place in real life, here in forum world behind a keyboard pomp is expressed without requiring credential. 

 

In an attempt to reach a resolution, you're having a sit down with Max to discuss his race craft - what advise would you give on to to improve this area of his inventory? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now only you will know honestly the first thoughts that came into your mind, mentally if a list of effective hints and tips materialised then fair play to you. If you an answer didn't naturally form in your mind, it's then a fruitless endeavour.

 

The thoughts didn't come into my mind because you asked the question, they have been there from the start of the conversation, which is why I made the opinion I did. 

[ilogikal1]

Let's look at it another way - and let's make it relevant... just for the novelty.

 

Picture this scenario, Gianpiero has gone to Imola and just witness Max winning his first grand prix of the season - he goes over to sign a few autographs and a time served screen watcher *Gianpiero having never raced an F1 car competitively goes "mate, congratulations but your entry lines into turn 4 needs work" he would think there's a secret camera watching to capture his reaction. It's all about credentials and Gianpiero wouldn't have any. (sic).

Apparently.

 

That's Gianpiero Lambiase, incidently. Max's race engineer. But he's never competitively driven the car so he can't possibly know anything how to drive it.

Point being the conversation would "never take place in real life" (apparantly), here in forum world behind a keyboard pomp is expressed without requiring credential. Or something.

 

 

On a side note, did I miss the memo dictating that all opinions epressed outside of the internet "require" credentials???

[davey_83]

Could be the poor way I'm putting this across. You won't be able to tell Max anything about this game so to speak that he doesn't already know. Furthermore you won't be able to give him any practical advise on how to improve his time on track beyond anything other than theory. If you honestly feel you would be able to give revelation to the current F1 world champion in any shape or form, you are wasted in your day job. 

 

No PM received, shocker - you're trying to point score rather than seek information having asked a question - you're not genuine, good day.