coldel Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 Seems like a good time to start one What an absolute farce. One guy unilaterally making the whole championship outcome pretty much illegitimate because he decides he can arbitrarily decide the rules during a race - I really find it hard to see any sort of fair outcome on this one for anyone. Had Masi just gone with the rules, all cars would have been given the opportunity to unlap and the race would have finished under a safety car. Lewis champion. Had he not allowed any to unlap, which was announced at one point by him during the safety car, RB would have appealed the result as no way would Verstappen got past the cars between him and Lewis and been able to pass. He chose instead to allow some to unlap, not others, which gave a tactical advantage to RB to win. We are now stuck in a totally bizarre situation whereby Mercedes are appealing effectively against the sports own governing body, and asking the sports own governing body to overturn something they have done themselves. I really cannot see where this can go other than a decision tonight of which whoever loses out appeals... What a complete mess... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran O'Quick Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 It's been unwatchable for a while. So many stupid rules and rolls of the dice - might as well be Dungeons and Dragons. Sat down to watch it today and then thought, meh, it will probably be decided by a safety car. Hard to give a care about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 I’m glad they threw out the protests, as I wouldn’t want a championship decided that way. Having said that, that was an absolutely shocking decision that Masi made at the end, clearly the wrong designed for one purpose only. Whether that purpose was purely entertainment or to give Max a title only he and his bosses know, but it was clearly a very poor choice. What I want to know is why he changed his mind on unlapping, and then why only some cars which is against the written code. We need to see the actual decision on that right now. Congrats to Max, but I think Lewis has done himself some serious credit with how he handled the events post race. He must’ve been gutted, but still congratulated both Max and Horner. Says an awful lot, that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 1 hour ago, coldel said: I really cannot see where this can go ..... ...... a new race director next year 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 (edited) There are rumours that Checo was under fuelled ... hmmm Edited December 12, 2021 by ATTAK Z 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran O'Quick Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 Not as bad as the rumours that Williams were helping Mercedes with the crash... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marzman Posted December 12, 2021 Share Posted December 12, 2021 (edited) Shocking, embarrassing, unfair, and infuriating. I'm a huge Lewis fan, but I have to admit that Max deserved to win the title this year, just not like this. Its a shame for him that this win will be tarnished with such controversy. Masi has been a liability all season and what he has done today is borderline criminal. I have to think he got a call from the American owners of F1 to bend the rules to create the drama, and the subsequent publicity - it's guaranteed to get them more viewers (whilst pissing off the genuine fans). How Lewis stayed calm in the aftermath i'll never know. I'd have done a Days of Thunder and driven my car at full speed into the cars in Parc Ferme before setting fire to the race stewards building. W*****s. Edited December 12, 2021 by marzman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 12, 2021 Author Share Posted December 12, 2021 I don’t think Williams helped Mercedes’ at all ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 12, 2021 Author Share Posted December 12, 2021 Yes clearly the FIA are covering their back they broke their own rules to appease RB. Crazy really. Funny thing was we all expected Max to crash into Lewis but it was the FIA that fixed it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Well done Max, great to get it right up Sky F1’s utterly biased commentary all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 8 hours ago, marzman said: Shocking, embarrassing, unfair, and infuriating. I'm a huge Lewis fan, but I have to admit that Max deserved to win the title this year, just not like this. Its a shame for him that this win will be tarnished with such controversy. Masi has been a liability all season and what he has done today is borderline criminal. I have to think he got a call from the American owners of F1 to bend the rules to create the drama, and the subsequent publicity - it's guaranteed to get them more viewers (whilst pissing off the genuine fans). How Lewis stayed calm in the aftermath i'll never know. I'd have done a Days of Thunder and driven my car at full speed into the cars in Parc Ferme before setting fire to the race stewards building. W*****s. He cant react....Hes already labelled due to personal politics and gets a lot of hate. He wants the audience to judge for themselves and not override it with post race antics. The story will stay on topic when they print it. It wont read "Hamilton acts out post race" Human nature is to take any win even if a child ran on the track and the rules state something else. I dont see race leader saying not like this, one more or redo it. You take your W and pretend nothing happened. In terms of appeal, its like appealing to Vince McMahon on why a championship belt shouldn't change hands. Its not your company 😉. "bossman wtf was that" "......*shrugs"....but boss.....*shrugs*......the rules state *shrugs*..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) Yes it was always going to end up being a case of protests waved away, there was no way the same people that effectively gave the decision were then going to change their minds and uphold a protest against themselves. I think Mercedes knew that and were just going through the matter of process to a bigger appeal. Reading the reason for dismissing the protests, seems to me they have taken another rule and just decided that it applies in this case and that the rule being protested is over-ridden. Which in effect means rule 48.13 can over ride any other regulation regarding safety cars...but I agree with Dan, the race director has decided the outcome of the race by in effect using one rule to partially apply other rules, at his own discretion, which has biased towards one team. Why wasnt Sainz given a clear run at Verstappen is the big question, why did the race director decide to set the field up in favour of Verstappen? Sorry but that is not what sport is all about. I think most fans will know Max has been called a champion under a cloud. One thing I have seen is that Lewis took it very calmly, I can only imagine the spitting rage and anger we would have seen from RB Horner and Verstappen had the rules been stuck to properly. Edited December 13, 2021 by coldel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Fantastic race/season and the better driver won. Either the first lap or the last, Max drove the socks of that car. Had Max been provided with a capable car years back, Lewis wouldn't have won half his titles. In the past he has bullied Massa, Nico and Botas on track however against a competitor he can't bully he'll come off second best and evidently so. Well done Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 Lewis has certainly bullied in the past, in moments, but I think even the most ardent Max fanboy knows both his divebombing into corners (which in effect are get out the way or we crash moments) is a step too far beyond driving aggressively, to the point he puts others in danger. Also that its a regular occurrence, rather than moments. Definitely a season of two halves, I do think Mercedes have the momentum at the moment will be interesting to see how the next season goes with arguably a better Mercedes number two in there. It will be interesting to see what the legal outcome is, if Mercedes win in the court, what actually happens? They cannot surely over-rule the championship outcome. What do they actually do about it when you find the governing body of a sport has mis-interpreted its own rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) If Lewis had won, no doubt RB would protested the first lap. So Max won the driver's championship, but the fact Mercedes won the manufacturer's championship seems overlooked. Think of the money they will make on the back of their 8th win. Maybe Mercedes might want to reflect on the fact that Lewis will work a lot harder next year to get his 8th Championship, as otherwise he will not have won all the titles in F1 there was to be won...... It's the rule book that needs sorting out! Edited December 13, 2021 by Ebized 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ebized said: If Lewis had won, no doubt RB would protested the first lap. So Max won the driver's championship, but the fact Mercedes won the manufacturer's championship seems overlooked. Think of the money they will make on the back of their 8th win. Maybe Mercedes might want to reflect on the fact that Lewis will work a lot harder next year to get his 8th Championship, as otherwise he will not have won all the titles in F1 there was to be won...... It's the rule book that needs sorting out! Yes I think RB were already lining up their protests as when the race officials first said to leave the lapped drivers where they were the RB radio went wild. Yes another manufacturers championship, if anything, that's the problem in F1 not that Lewis specifically kept winning. To be honest so many Max 'fans' out there aren't fans of him, they just want to support whoever isn't Lewis 😄 where did all the LeClerc fans go from a few seasons back 😉 I think the rule book is fine, its the dumbass wielding it that needs sorting out ! Edited December 13, 2021 by coldel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 The FIA has lacked any real form of leadership all season. The current bunch simply can't make quick, decisive consclusions and stick with it - and it's only got worse as the season has gone on too. Charlie Whiting is sorely missed, Michael Massi simply can't perform the role and needs to move on. There's simply no authority in that stewards room at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 Perez did a great job all season, great partnership, where both understand the principle of a ‘principle’ driver. Hope it’s Russell giving Max some real competition next year. The King is dead, long live the King, and to survive, F1 need to crack the US, combative racing is what’s going to do it not whiney sullen fans and drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 5 hours ago, coldel said: Why wasnt Sainz given a clear run at Verstappen is the big question, Didn't he have a lapped car in front of him? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 13, 2021 Author Share Posted December 13, 2021 Well that's the issue at hand, that the focus on the decision was all about attempting to make it look like the season had a finale for the two main actors of the show. They knew by letting all the lapped guys go through they couldn't have finished the race with a green flag lap. So 'Masi God Mode' was activated which the FIA feel is allowed which involves them moving the goalposts for the benefit of the watching TV audience rather than the benefit of sport. It's a shame as none of RB Merc Verstappen or Hamilton did anything wrong, after all the posturing by the FIA to tell the racers to have a clean race (and to be fair generally in the race they did and Hamilton drove away from Verstappen) the FIA actually were the ones that made the mistake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebized Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, coldel said: I think the rule book is fine, its the dumbass wielding it that needs sorting out ! Is it? Then why are different decisions being made by the Stewards, who are never the same from race to race? We are constantly told they have a wealth of information us viewers never get to see - maybe that is the problem - too much to consistently digest in the heat of the moment. And it is wholly wrong that the Race Director can be lobbied during the course of a race by teams. But when the rules are being interpreted differently amongst the decision makers, that clearly points to the rule book being too open to interpretation. Yes, this final race was certainly not one of Masi's finest by changing his actions, again no doubt down to the pressure by those around him in his 'office'. First and foremost, make the white lines that edge the tracks are the limit - if all 4 tyres are over, track limits are exceeded, period. The only exception should be when a car is forced over, either by others (a penalty for them), mechanical issues or safety and maybe first lap corners . There are enough cameras on board together with TV coverage around F1 tracks these days to pick out the guilty party(s). All that aside, the racing this year with the tussle between Lewis and Max has made for good viewing - let's hope the 2022 cars make the racing all the more exciting for all the drivers and fans. Edited December 13, 2021 by Ebized 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoogyRev Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 😂 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Muxlow Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 What a load of rubbish! Nuff said. Just absolute bs. It was probably just for the American markets…🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 6 hours ago, coldel said: So 'Masi God Mode' was activated which the FIA feel is allowed which involves them moving the goalposts for the benefit of the watching TV audience rather than the benefit of sport. Sadly, we may have to accept that it's no longer a sport, but rather sport-based entertainment now. (Who knew things could get worse after Bernie?! ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 My guess is if you were to ask any F1 racing driver would you want to finish the race behind the safety car or battle it out to the finish line? No driver is going to say behind a safety car, IF the track is safe to use. We've all seen incidents whereby lapped cars are allowed to overtake the safety car in an effort to resume racing order. The matter of the cars behind Max not being also allowed to form an order to then go racing. So..... Why have Sainz potentially getting tangled with the leaders who will decide the championship. With two cars battling around a lap you're going much slower than you would normally, so a fast charging Ferrari isn't going to add any value to the conclusion of the championship. Even Norris who qualified 3rd on the grid said in an interview that at the start he would hang back and not get tangled with the lead pair as they battled for the title. Either way it's split milk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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