Is there much difference between the MPS4 and MPS4s

[W8BGS]

3 hours ago, davey_83 said:

I'm going to have to be that guy - unless you have means of adjusting the front and rear camber beyond the standard camber bolts *rear, paying hundreds and hundreds of pounds for an alignment is a waste.

 

These aren't like BM's that you have to weigh down to do an alignment, road test come back check again. If what can be adjusted on a standard Z has been and is all green on a hunter, what else can be adjusted?

 

From before you said the steering feel issue was resolved...... Have you checked and adjusted the tyre pressures correctly coming out the winter? 

I get what you are saying and it is one of my concerns. I know the rear as standard isn't adjustable and was wondering exactly what can be done on a standard car. I think the issue I have with it feeling very different to another standard Zed means I know it can handle differently and maybe I have a part, which on further inspection is damaged and by replacing it will feel as I want it to. I don't drive the car too hard and will never track it. 

 

I did get it to feel a tad better than it was, but still not comparible with the other one I drove. 

 

I have sent CG and email and will see what they suggest. I also just checked out the String Theory site and looks like alignment is the only thing that can be done with non height adjustable suspension. I will drop them a message and see what they say too. 

[W8BGS]

5 hours ago, Shunter8 said:

I’d second a recommendation for String Theory. Used them back in November and had a full corner weight and alignment done on my 350Z at the time and cost me £400, definitely money well spent and that was just with HSD Dualtechs and standard arms 

Nice, to be fair they are closer too. 

 

I'll drop them an email. 

[davey_83]

9 hours ago, Ekona said:

If you think that all that matters is whether or not a machine says the alignment is in the green, then this isn’t the thread for you. 
 

Yes, places discussed above are expensive and for most people unnecessary, but if you want an expert to set your car up in a specific way then that kind of work does cost. Also if you think that places like CG simply give you an alignment then you’re missing the point entirely: I can assure you that there’s a lot more that goes into a session than that. 

 

I'm happy to learn, what else gets set up on a car with stock suspension? 

[msitpro]

@Ekona surely -

 

rough corner weights based on factory weight balances and overall curb weight

knowledge of OEM and current spring rates

knowledge of OEM handling characteristics

knowledge of OEM alignment spec

knowledge of OEM wheel and tyre spec vs current

awareness of any change of ARBs

 

...can be used to get a very good alignment and setup for road and track use, short of professional race outfits. (the latter having real corner weight scales)

 

I used all of the above to choose spring rates, camber, toe and arb settings. My local garage used MY alignment spec that I learned and researched would be a good setup, and it works well. (in my opinion - and I have had some shocking setups that DIDN'T work well at all before understanding the effect of some changes I had made over the years)

 

Of course, I have adjustment on all of these so have tested and tested. Some of these adjustable parts the OP likely doesn't have.

Edited May 13, 2021 by msitpro

[msitpro]

Having said the above - could be somebody's preference to pay £400-650 and not have the 'hassle' of learning it themselves.

 

£400-650 actually isn't bad at all, as long as the end result is good.

[W8BGS]

Exactly as above. Remember I am in the first instance comparing my stock suspension set up with another 370z (with more miles) stock suspension set up. I don't need to spend thousands on adjustable everything as it would be lost on me as the car is a weekend toy that is never tracked or driven overly hard. 

 

I have heard back from CG and its booked in with them. They are booking 1st week of Aug for anyone interested. 

 

They have quoted £355 Inc Vat and stated it will take around 4 hours. 

[GranTurismoEra]

What are they going to for you specifically?

 

 

[W8BGS]

1 hour ago, GranTurismoEra said:

What are they going to for you specifically?

 

 

This was the reply. 

 

Typically vagueness at speed is down to front toes which is easily sorted. 

 

All cars go through the same process of evaluation drive, inspection of all suspension components to ensure they are healthy and not contributing to any handling issues and then a geometry to suit your requirement and mode of use. Cost for the session is £355.00 inc. VAT and takes around 4 hours to complete.  

 

[nissanman312]

1 hour ago, W8BGS said:

This was the reply. 

 

Typically vagueness at speed is down to front toes which is easily sorted. 

 

All cars go through the same process of evaluation drive, inspection of all suspension components to ensure they are healthy and not contributing to any handling issues and then a geometry to suit your requirement and mode of use. Cost for the session is £355.00 inc. VAT and takes around 4 hours to complete.  

 

Thats the half day which is all you need i suspect 

 

They are good lads they will see you right 

 

Will you share your set up here please so others can see what they do on the stock suspension 

Edited May 13, 2021 by nissanman312

[W8BGS]

2 hours ago, nissanman312 said:

Thats the half day which is all you need i suspect 

 

They are good lads they will see you right 

 

Will you share your set up here please so others can see what they do on the stock suspension 

Sure I will do, although I am currently considering coilovers, so it may not be stock in Aug. As much as I don't really want the car lowered, I am also pretty fed up of the arch gap. If the height is adjustable I can leave it close to OEM height, just a tad lower and have the adjustability of the coilovers. 

[nissanman312]

7 hours ago, W8BGS said:

Sure I will do, although I am currently considering coilovers, so it may not be stock in Aug. As much as I don't really want the car lowered, I am also pretty fed up of the arch gap. If the height is adjustable I can leave it close to OEM height, just a tad lower and have the adjustability of the coilovers. 

Yeah mine is close to stock height I think 

Cg lifted it quite a bit 

 

Its still catches on a real bad road tho 

I'm looking into lifting a touch more 

[W8BGS]

I heard back from String Theory and they sound really good. £200 + vat and they said no time limit, it takes as long as required to get it right. I like that. I just don't think they are as forensic with checking the existing components as Centre Gravity. A bit torn who to visit now. 

[Ekona]

Just over £100 in it, I’d still go CG. But that is a good price from ST, not sure you’ll be disappointed whoever you choose. 

[W8BGS]

Yeah CG have sent me another email and it all sounds good. 

 

We can certainly have a chat as to what the best next step is - the issues you're having sound geometry related - adding ride height and corner weights along with stiffer springs isn't necessarily going to help the problem but only exacerbate it. At least with a proper geometry first you can be sure of what the car can do and how it should feel before emptying your wallet into upgrades that are perhaps not necessary. 

 

They have also said Eibach are local, so on the day if rear adjustment is needed they will have rear arms and camber bolts available. 

 

 

[W8BGS]

This was the reply back from ST

 

The 370Z should feel pretty sharp, they have relatively quick, positive feeling steering typically and a nice double wishbone front suspension design which works well.

Without actually seeing or driving your car it's really hard to make any promises BUT having the car aligned properly makes a big difference, even if it's within factory specifications that can be quite a broad range and create 2 very different driving cars, even though technically both could be "within spec". Short answer is yes absolutely we can make it drive better, proper answer needs a few questions answering...

What tyres are you running on the car?

Are the wheels standard or aftermarket? Same question for tyre size.

When you had the alignment done was it by a proper workshop that was aiming to improve it, or was it just a typical tyre shop "get it in the green box" type job?

Have the tyres worn at all unevenly over the miles?

Has the car always been the same or do you think it's got any worse?

So, a proper alignment with your weight in the car on the flat patch would be £200+ vat, that'll get whatever time is required to make it perfect. If there's anything actually wrong with the car then we'll need to discuss that when it comes to it, but if it's not had any issues with MOT and it's a standard Japanese car with 72k miles then odds are it's probably perfect underneath. I'm not going to suggest modifications since it sounds like you just want your car to feel nice, which it should and could!

Tyres make a huge difference, let me know what actual tyres you have on the car and the questions above and we'll go from there.

 

Both places sound like they can sort my issue and both seem places I would be happy to take my car too. 

[nissanman312]

Good responsible replies from both 

 

 

[Ekona]

It sounds like to me that ST are offering a “simple” geo, whereas I know from experience that CG go into a lot more detail when checking the car over. Of course you’re going to pay more for that service, so really it’s up to you. 
 

FWIW a day at CG is a hell of a learning experience too, the guys are more than happy to involve you in every step along with letting you wander around the workshop while they’re doing it (should you so desire). In my two days there I learnt more about general suspension/alignment workings than years of reading and prior experience had taught me. 

[W8BGS]

12 hours ago, Ekona said:

It sounds like to me that ST are offering a “simple” geo, whereas I know from experience that CG go into a lot more detail when checking the car over. Of course you’re going to pay more for that service, so really it’s up to you. 
 

FWIW a day at CG is a hell of a learning experience too, the guys are more than happy to involve you in every step along with letting you wander around the workshop while they’re doing it (should you so desire). In my two days there I learnt more about general suspension/alignment workings than years of reading and prior experience had taught me. 

Thanks, I am going to go with CG. 

 

It sounds like you learnt a lot, unfortunately for me they are working with Covid restrictions, hopefully I will be fine come Aug, but at the moment they have a load of restrictions, all test drives are alone etc. Hopefully I will get to watch them work their magic. 

[Ekona]

Now that’s a shame about the test drives, albeit understandable in the current climate. Their test route is absolute genius, and all within about 10 mins of the workshop

[dave_7]

On 14/05/2021 at 22:54, Ekona said:

It sounds like to me that ST are offering a “simple” geo, whereas I know from experience that CG go into a lot more detail when checking the car over. Of course you’re going to pay more for that service, so really it’s up to you. 
 

FWIW a day at CG is a hell of a learning experience too, the guys are more than happy to involve you in every step along with letting you wander around the workshop while they’re doing it (should you so desire). In my two days there I learnt more about general suspension/alignment workings than years of reading and prior experience had taught me. 

you'e making me want to go there now 

[W8BGS]

I had the MPS4 fitted today and Christchurch Tyres did a front wheel alignment. The car definitely feels better. The tyres feel a lot firmer, which is good. The alignment is better now too. They said some of the front suspension parts are looking a bit crusty and the rear was seized, but I didn't think the rear was adjustable on the Zed? Either way I am looking forward to the drive to Seywell Circuit next Sunday now and also my trip to Centre Gravity in Aug. 

[Olly350z]

The rear is adjustable, I'd imagine your toe bolts are seized hence why you still have toe on one side. Maybe time for a freshen up on the suspension 

[W8BGS]

19 minutes ago, Olly350z said:

The rear is adjustable, I'd imagine your toe bolts are seized hence why you still have toe on one side. Maybe time for a freshen up on the suspension 

Ah OK, yeah I think they did say the rear was seized. Freshen up the suspension probably a good idea, but after just spending £740 on tyres I can't afford anything major. 

 

I just spotted these. Do you think they will do the trick? 

 

https://www.torqen.uk/nissan/370z/suspension-steering/arms-links/12799-370z-moog-rear-adjustable-alignment-cambertoe-kit-k100152.html

 

Anything more will have to wait otherwise until it goes to Centre Gravity in August, but if I can fix cheaply before then, then it's wise to get it sorted ASAP. 

[Ekona]

You’ll need to get that sorted before going to CG, else it’s a waste of time if they can’t adjust everything fully. 

[W8BGS]

1 minute ago, Ekona said:

You’ll need to get that sorted before going to CG, else it’s a waste of time if they can’t adjust everything fully. 

Agree. 

 

Do you think the Moog or Eibach would do the trick. 

 

https://www.torqen.uk/nissan/370z/suspension-steering/arms-links/9778-370z-eibach-pro-alignment-rear-camber-bolts-572265k.html

 

I assume Eibach is the way to go as long as they are fine with the rest of the set up being OEM.