New second-generation 2022 Subaru BRZ

[neo]

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/subaru/brz/35386/new-second-generation-2022-subaru-brz-revealed

[Stutopia]

I rather like it, particularly the ass end. Shame the head unit and glove box we’re pulled from a different universe, before being fitted but its not too bad.

[Ekona]

I’d buy it. Happily. 

[Shunter8]

If I’m being honest, can’t say I’m a massive fan of it. Not saying it’s a bad looking car, but doesn’t reach out and grab my attention. 
Tail lights/boot lid just reminds me of the USDM Civics (not sure what Gen) but looking at it that’s just the first thing that comes to mind....Civic. Although can also see some Lexus-esque styling notes too, which again Lexus are nice cars but this is meant to be a Subaru, doesn’t really stand out as one to me. 
 

Not that my opinion matters as I’ll never be a potential customer buying one new anyway as way out of my budget. But if I was, it wouldn’t be the one I’d be running for, I’d be browsing about for what else is in a similar price range instead.

[Ekona]

Exterior design will likely be Toyota, hence the Lexus-lite style I would imagine. 

[andy james]

I like that a lot. 

[stanski]

For a car that handles like a go cart I just think it's let down by the styling. 

I suppose you can say they are being sustainable and environmentally friendly by reusing design elements from about half a dozen cars starting from the mid 90s! 

 

The interior dash really looks like they went to IKEA in the broken parts section got all the bargain wardrobe units with missing hinges and shoe horned them in the make a glovebox and dash! Sorry looks pants really does. 

 

It's a filler special keep things going till the next model I suppose?

[GranTurismoEra]

only getting the 86 in UK. The Subaru had better styling shame it wasnt as popular. Its naturally aspirated again and only 228 hp. The GR Yaris will eat it .

 

Its probably toned down because of the 2 liter Supra

 

Interior is a no no. Looks cost saving

[stanski]

34 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said:

only getting the 86 in UK. The Subaru had better styling shame it wasnt as popular. Its naturally aspirated again and only 228 hp. The GR Yaris will eat it .

 

Its probably toned down because of the 2 liter Supra

 

Interior is a no no. Looks cost saving

Why are they not selling in the UK? Is it emissions like with the Jimmy? Why don't they take out the back seat and black out the rear windows call it a van to get around it? 

[GranTurismoEra]

Not sure I think the Subaru wasnt overly popular. The 86 should still be released in the UK with slightly different styling. 

 

The rear looks like a Civic/NSX. 

 

I think the 86 will use a different set up to the Subaru. The Subaru having more power. Possibly a different engine.

 

Just hope they dont start imposing restrictions on imports

Edited November 22, 2020 by GranTurismoEra

[Ekona]

It’s emissions based: Subaru don’t sell enough crappy hybrids to offset the CO that the BRZ would put out which would raise their overall CO output. Toyota can do this with ease. 
 

I can’t believe the new 86 will have a different drivetrain at all compared with the new BRZ. It’ll be a styling and slight suspension change like the early cars (which, btw, I much preferred how the BRZ handled over the 86). 

[stanski]

1 hour ago, Ekona said:

It’s emissions based: Subaru don’t sell enough crappy hybrids to offset the CO that the BRZ would put out which would raise their overall CO output. Toyota can do this with ease. 
 

I can’t believe the new 86 will have a different drivetrain at all compared with the new BRZ. It’ll be a styling and slight suspension change like the early cars (which, btw, I much preferred how the BRZ handled over the 86). 

It's a shame about Subaru they kind of lost their way. They had the boy racer rally car of choice (that fetch silly money now) but maybe wanted to get away from that image and were the 4x4 farmers alternatives to the usual Ranges and Volvo estates? My mate has been a lifelong fan, he still has an early Forrester prodrive edition, goes like stink but looks understated. I don't even know the last time I saw a Subaru dealer are they still here?

[GranTurismoEra]

They are still there. Hopefully they dont try to leave like Mitsubishi

[hmale4yu]

you think they could nail the styling at least 

 

It's a no from me 

[GranTurismoEra]

Lets see what Toyoda does in coming months. That should do well and glad to see many of them on the road still. Shame about the power. At least do a TRD version with as much power as Hyundai 276 hp and turbo charged...for EU. 

 

Thats asking a lot and changes the characteristics of the car

[Shunter8]

1 hour ago, GranTurismoEra said:

Lets see what Toyoda does in coming months. That should do well and glad to see many of them on the road still. Shame about the power. At least do a TRD version with as much power as Hyundai 276 hp and turbo charged...for EU. 

 

Thats asking a lot and changes the characteristics of the car

I think they’re still trying to keep it as a newer AE86 of which turboing would move too far away from its heritage. Although I do get your point too as from what I’ve read it is underpowered compared to its rivalry. 
 

Can’t say I’ve ever been near one or driven one so can’t comment on its performance so it’s hard to judge what power and form of induction it needs to be, but it’s a balancing act of them trying to stay true to the evolution of the 86 and making it competitive to its current competitors. 

[Ekona]

Accept it for what it is and revel in it, rather than worry about it trying to compete with others and you’ll really enjoy it. Think of it as a coupe MX5, delicate and fun rather than a speed bruiser. 
 

I’ve driven a couple of BRZ86s and they’ve all put a smile on my face. Anyone who says they’re too slow and need more power just doesn’t get it. 

[Stutopia]

11 hours ago, Ekona said:

Accept it for what it is and revel in it, rather than worry about it trying to compete with others and you’ll really enjoy it. Think of it as a coupe MX5, delicate and fun rather than a speed bruiser. 
 

I’ve driven a couple of BRZ86s and they’ve all put a smile on my face. Anyone who says they’re too slow and need more power just doesn’t get it. 

Amen to this brother. 
 

The only time I wish for more power is trying to get around things on back roads. 

[Ekona]

Likewise with the MX5, but audacious use of late braking, low weight and excellent visibility means I usually find half a chance somewhere  

 

Does hurt being out accelerated by a diesel MPV though...

[GranTurismoEra]

With my CRZ needs to be very powerful diesel to getaway. Around 240+ hp due to extra weight and turbo lag. Thats why a Turbo wouldn't hurt a BRZ. Times have moved on from NA.

 

Realistically how much longer can they make NA in EU with the 86. Most likely the last generation. 

 

They will have to look at Hybrid alternatives similar to the ISF Lexus or exclude it from EU. It would only add a few horses but make it more driveable especially in town at lower speeds without burning all the petrol accelerating from lights.

 

Have remember competition and what people are getting for £28,000-£33,000 pounds

Edited December 15, 2020 by GranTurismoEra

[Stutopia]

What is the competition at sub 33k? I30N, Fiesta ST, Type R, MX5, ??? only one of them is a sports car and it has no boot or back seats. If you’re all about speed, the Type R wins by miles (against more expensive options too), no point in trying to compete with that, got to differentiate.

[Ekona]

Exactly Stu. It’s offering a choice, not a direct competitor, exactly as the first one did. And we should be grateful for that in this last decade of pure ICE power trains. 
 

I don’t hate turbo cars, but revving out an NA lump to the death is one of life’s great pleasures. Outside of the super car bubble, no FI lump comes close to that feeling of having to work an engine to get the best out of it. 

[GranTurismoEra]

On 15/12/2020 at 08:36, Stutopia said:

What is the competition at sub 33k? I30N, Fiesta ST, Type R, MX5, ??? only one of them is a sports car and it has no boot or back seats. If you’re all about speed, the Type R wins by miles (against more expensive options too), no point in trying to compete with that, got to differentiate.

GR Yaris is faster than the Type R thanks to all wheel drive at 1200kg and can run borderline 14 seconds quarter mile. Apparently can be mapped to run a bit better

 

Depends what you want out of a car. Personally I wouldn't spend 30k on the 86.....i dont feel its worth more than 24k at best. So used approved it is. 

 

The GR Yaris is more bang for buck in terms of what youre getting. its a smaller engine but the suspension, drive systems and R and D make up for it hence price.

 

NA visceral type experience ive already got a 370 its just on the heavy side....not an easy car to recover if you lose footing....compared with the lighter 86. The 86 has its advantages

Edited December 16, 2020 by GranTurismoEra

[stanski]

To add my 20p experience to the mix.

Maybe it's time to acknowledge how good the MR2 Roadster was.

They tried to take on Mazda's mx5 speaking as someone who has owned both, they are similar but different animals.

The Mx5 is fun and predictable hence safe as long as you don't do anything really stupid.

The MR2 was a more hard edged car in my view and I had one of the very first new ones (in Manchester area) back in the day. You could steer it with the accelerator pedal a lot of the time, it was great fun but it would bite you very easily very quickly and without warning. So the hairdresser image is unfair.

I think they had Bridgestone (tyres of death) as standard. When I switched to Toyos it was a much better car exactly as I did with the 350z.

The reason I mention the MR2 is when the GT86 first came out I went to test drive it as a serious potential purchase. The moment I drove it my memories of the MR2 Roadster flooded back. It had exactly the same instant response and go cart handling, putting a big grin on my face, but sadly let down by the cheap interior and fake drain pipe engine noise piped into the cabin. 

In 2001 the plastic interior of the MR2 was actually ok and for a rag top practical but having something even worse in the 2017 or whenever it was is no excuse in a GT86. So I agree it's no way a £30k car! I said it before it's a fill in model to keep the Subaru plant alive but glad Toyota still make light cars like this. They need a new MR2 and I would consider one over a GT86 if they did. 

Sorry to any GT86 or BRZ owners. 

[Stutopia]

3 hours ago, GranTurismoEra said:

GR Yaris is faster than the Type R thanks to all wheel drive at 1200kg and can run borderline 14 seconds quarter mile. Apparently can be mapped to run a bit better

 

Depends what you want out of a car. Personally I wouldn't spend 30k on the 86.....i dont feel its worth more than 24k at best. So used approved it is. 

 

The GR Yaris is more bang for buck in terms of what youre getting. its a smaller engine but the suspension, drive systems and R and D make up for it hence price.

 

NA visceral type experience ive already got a 370 its just on the heavy side....not an easy car to recover if you lose footing....compared with the lighter 86. The 86 has its advantages

The Yaris does promise a lot, albeit not technically inside the arbitrary 33k price set, without omitting the obligatory circuit pack. But even if it weren't, what are you advocating? Toyota should have put a turbo in the 86, so it can compete better with their own Yaris? Right now they're two totally different offerings, at quite different price points. Why would they place them both in the one slot? 

 

More broadly speaking there's a case that literally every single NA car in the world should be FI, but not all are. It can't be because all car manufacturers are too stupid to figure out boost = faster for same displacement. There must be other reasons, beyond being able to talk about 0-62 / quarter miles / bhp / torque / other pub chat metrics, for selecting different aspiration types on different cars.