Yet another option to kill off motoring - the Dystopian thread

[stanski]

1 hour ago, alexgv1 said:

Once they stop taxing cars for CO2 and NOx emissions they will start taxing them for iron and rubber particles emitted from brakes and tyres respectively. Something which is also present on electrical cars. These are much larger in diameter than exhaust emissions particles and somewhat as harmful towards air quality. So I expect to see the tax system changed to this by the time we’re all supposed to be electric. No escaping it unfortunately and of course it will all be our fault for driving electric cars then (despite people trying to be green and following government recommendations/tax incentives). 

Exactly the same way people changed over to diesel because the Government told them it was eco friendly so technically can we sue the government for bad advice and poor taste in cars? 

[stanski]

32 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said:

Too many old people who just use electricity to make their tea and watch Eastenders who would complain about paying more for their leccy though.

 

Really the only solution is to charge people who use the roads for using the roads based on how much they... well, use the roads really.

 

Of course blanket toll roads overnight would be a similar political suicide so I maintain it won’t just happen in one day.

 

The fast charger tax is an interesting one though.

Dont give the Government any ideas!!!

 

I like your old people tea and EastEnders reference, that would be a high end technical and scientific evaluation in The Sun or Daily Mail.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by stanski

[stanski]

Not often I agree with the Daily Mail but this guy says exactly what I think.

 

https://mol.im/a/8955439

 

God help us all.

[hmale4yu]

This is roughly the road ahead

 

Stage 1: Phasing out of Diesel [2010-present]

Step 2: Phasing in hybrid, phasing out NA Petrol era  i.e. forced induction engines over NA + above [2015-present]

Step 3: Phasing In electric + above [2020-2025]

Step 4:  EV push continues  + £charging then banning petrol/diesel/hybrids  [2025-2030]

Step 5*:  Autonmous vehicles phased in + EV  [2030-2035]

Step 6*: Fully Autonomous [2040+]

 

*6G will be able to provide a fast enough infrastructure to make self driving vehicles communicate with one another and operate. By 2040 I think society will have changed to the extent that we may have smart cities that people don't really venture out of much so this may provide less of a reason to drive out of region. Hard to predict. Imagine asking someone from 1980 what life would be like in 2000. They would envisage prob the role of the computer but many wouldnt know the repercussions of mobiles, internet etc 

 

 

[ShortPaul]

5 hours ago, stanski said:

Dont give the Government any ideas!!!

 

I like your old people tea and EastEnders reference, that would be a high end technical and scientific evaluation in The Sun or Daily Mail.

 

 

What do mean by old and a love a nice cup of tea

[stanski]

22 minutes ago, hmale4yu said:

This is roughly the road ahead

 

Stage 1: Phasing out of Diesel [2010-present]

Step 2: Phasing in hybrid, phasing out NA Petrol era  i.e. forced induction engines over NA + above [2015-present]

Step 3: Phasing In electric + above [2020-2025]

Step 4:  EV push continues  + £charging then banning petrol/diesel/hybrids  [2025-2030]

Step 5*:  Autonmous vehicles phased in + EV  [2030-2035]

Step 6*: Fully Autonomous [2040+]

 

*6G will be able to provide a fast enough infrastructure to make self driving vehicles communicate with one another and operate. By 2040 I think society will have changed to the extent that we may have smart cities that people don't really venture out of much so this may provide less of a reason to drive out of region. Hard to predict. Imagine asking someone from 1980 what life would be like in 2000. They would envisage prob the role of the computer but many wouldnt know the repercussions of mobiles, internet etc 

 

 

You maybe right however the idea computers will solve everything for us even after the micro pc revolution from the 80s until now is still not here. I know I work in that game and in 1983 when dad got me a Commodore Vic 20 that set me on the path I ended up taking in the computer industry.

There was this great excitement  of the future explosion of what computing could do yet in 2020 I am still waiting for it? Showing my age but I remember when they first showcased voice control, recognition, mobile phones and of course mid 90s when the web arrived and all the stuff until today. 

AI and those small self learning robots well are they mass produced and used daily in 2020 no! 

Nobody knew social media would arrive and take such a massive part in the world (good or bad). 

Nobody knew everything would be manufactured to cost in countries like China, so all the autonomous cars using those cheap sensors and cables and CPUs with code written and tested by poorly paid programmers in countries like, China, Hungary, Phillipines wherever the labour costs are cheap and you trust your life to that.  Don't even consider hackers they never existed until the 90s.

 

It's like British Leyland for the modern age. Conflict of interest, cost cutting and something always gives. 

Nobody predicted a pandemic in 1980 or in fact people serious considering leaving cities and living in the countryside because of BroadBand (something unheard of until recent times).

 

So you can keep your 600 mph hyperloop, sorry I just don't trust them to make that safe and reliable..look at Boeing for instance. 

 

Anyway ignore me I have a skewed version of IT compared to everyone else who enjoys it as a consumer.

 

Sticking with the ICE (remember when that meant In Car Entertainment) 

[hmale4yu]

I think it was mentioned in another thread but the years of being a petrol head are p much numbered. Can even argue that the 90s supercars had something that the modern ones don't. On a more attainable level, I think there will be a last opportunity to own something enjoyably silly from 2022-2026 - I can see some big petrol cars just dropping like mad and there is potential to own something special before we all have to accept the shift towards EV 

[stanski]

1 hour ago, hmale4yu said:

I think it was mentioned in another thread but the years of being a petrol head are p much numbered. Can even argue that the 90s supercars had something that the modern ones don't. On a more attainable level, I think there will be a last opportunity to own something enjoyably silly from 2022-2026 - I can see some big petrol cars just dropping like mad and there is potential to own something special before we all have to accept the shift towards EV 

That's what I think, time to get that big engined mad thing you can't afford now for peanuts money near that date. 

[hmale4yu]

2 hours ago, stanski said:

That's what I think, time to get that big engined mad thing you can't afford now for peanuts money near that date. 

 

Potentially somewhat exotic cars the like the Alfa giulia quadrifoglio/gta, facelifted Lexus RCF, LC could suffer huge depreciation as a result of an accelerated shift to EV esp with where we are now. I can see R8s heading this way

 

I think that how these EV cars will eventually work eventually is that they will "switch" to self-driving mode once they come within a smart city or when an urban  area gets congested. The technology will allow computers to figure out how many cars on the roads and exact speed they, travelling at etc and in turn ensure the self-driving cars give way to one another.  I think that normal driving would mean travelling out of smart areas (which would incur a toll). There well be a (financial) incentive for drivers to leave the car in self-driving mode as opposed to sport/track/normal drive.  

[Davectr]

3 hours ago, hmale4yu said:

 

I think that how these EV cars will eventually work eventually is that they will "switch" to self-driving mode once they come within a smart city or when an urban  area gets congested. The technology will allow computers to figure out how many cars on the roads and exact speed they, travelling at etc and in turn ensure the self-driving cars give way to one another.  I think that normal driving would mean travelling out of smart areas (which would incur a toll). There well be a (financial) incentive for drivers to leave the car in self-driving mode as opposed to sport/track/normal drive.  

And that’s when it’s time to quit driving and use public transport! It’s thoughts like this that make me glad I’m getting old, by the time all this happens I’ll only need a car to pick up my prescriptions . 
Also glad I live nowhere near a big city, so will have freedom of the open road a little longer

[Ponsonby]

4 hours ago, Davectr said:

And that’s when it’s time to quit driving and use public transport! It’s thoughts like this that make me glad I’m getting old, by the time all this happens I’ll only need a car to pick up my prescriptions . 
Also glad I live nowhere near a big city, so will have freedom of the open road a little longer

Our mobility scooters (electric) will be self driving and will take us home when we forget where we live.

[stanski]

4 hours ago, Davectr said:

And that’s when it’s time to quit driving and use public transport! It’s thoughts like this that make me glad I’m getting old, by the time all this happens I’ll only need a car to pick up my prescriptions . 
Also glad I live nowhere near a big city, so will have freedom of the open road a little longer

Exactly. Thankfully I live in a backwater we still have steam trains here!!

I don't think any of the fancy automation will be along as quickly as they expect. 

How long has the local smart motorway taken to be completed? The ones near me have been going on for years and thats just sticking overhead gantries and cameras on.

Don't worry we will finally have the Brexit deal and nuclear fusion plants in operation by then.

Who knows we may all be wrong leccie cars and auto driving is the way forward as long as they don't ruin my favourite Scottish Highland A roads and I can still zip along there. Post lockdown of course.

[ATTAK Z]

A couple of recent posts differentiate between big cities and rural areas and to me, that's important. As usual the government is deciding national policy on the basis of problems encountered in London. I have no need nor any wish to travel to London or any big city for that matter. Fortunately all my journeys are for pleasure only, so I'm affected little by the current proposals for toll roads and electric vehicles. Furthermore, as (I think) the oldest member of our club, I doubt very much I'll be driving anything much after 2030   .

[stanski]

18 minutes ago, ATTAK Z said:

A couple of recent posts differentiate between big cities and rural areas and to me, that's important. As usual the government is deciding national policy on the basis of problems encountered in London. I have no need nor any wish to travel to London or any big city for that matter. Fortunately all my journeys are for pleasure only, so I'm affected little by the current proposals for toll roads and electric vehicles. Furthermore, as (I think) the oldest member of our club, I doubt very much I'll be driving anything much after 2030   .

When they sort out hover boards we won't need to worry where your Renault Zoe gets its next charge. 

[Stutopia]

19 hours ago, stanski said:

Not often I agree with the Daily Mail but this guy says exactly what I think.

 

https://mol.im/a/8955439

 

God help us all.

Careful. Agreeing with the daily fail is not just a disciplinary matter, it means you're dangerously close to disconnecting from reality.

[stanski]

4 minutes ago, SuperStu said:

Careful. Agreeing with the daily fail is not just a disciplinary matter, it means you're dangerously close to disconnecting from reality.

I am sorry mate, I did consider the implications of admitting that in a public forum and completely tarnishing my already feable reputation but thought it was worth the risk if I went to confession immediately afterwards and repented for my sins.

[galaxyg]

On 16/11/2020 at 18:41, stanski said:

They don't actually want you to buy cars anymore just lease them like everything else bleeding mobiles started all this stuff!

Totally agree. I think many industries, cars included, have looked enviously at the mobile phone industry's "endless payment endless bi-annual upgrade" business model and realized how much profit can be made by a subscription model and a shocking waste/turnover of perfectly useable products. By introducing so much more tech into cars, they can make them obsolete so much quicker.

[hmale4yu]

21 hours ago, Davectr said:

And that’s when it’s time to quit driving and use public transport! It’s thoughts like this that make me glad I’m getting old, by the time all this happens I’ll only need a car to pick up my prescriptions . 
Also glad I live nowhere near a big city, so will have freedom of the open road a little longer

 

Another stab to the chest is that highly sophisticated GPS connected to cars will make illegal or dodgy a parking a thing of the past (or a fine in the post I mean automatically deducted from your bank account) as the cars journeys incl where they are parked would be logged and cross referenced to the road network. This wont happen overnight but I think from 2040/45 this will be inevitable 

[gangzoom]

Automounous driving is going to come much sooner than 2030. 

 

 

[galaxyg]

2 hours ago, gangzoom said:

Automounous driving is going to come much sooner than 2030. 

Does anyone here actually know anyone that wants a self-driving car? I don't.

[stanski]

26 minutes ago, galaxyg said:

Does anyone here actually know anyone that wants a self-driving car? I don't.

For the elderly, partially sighted or very long boring trips on a single straight road (ha not in the UK) yes it would be useful. Then again if you are travelling a long way in a straight line a train might be better subject to pandemic conditions of course?

Personally I don't want a self driving car we are all car enthusiasts so the idea of that part of the experience being taken away, you might as well sell your car and use taxis?  At least you can have a chat about the worlds problems!! What will Alexa or bleeding Google talk to you about? 

[coldel]

22 hours ago, ATTAK Z said:

A couple of recent posts differentiate between big cities and rural areas and to me, that's important. As usual the government is deciding national policy on the basis of problems encountered in London. I have no need nor any wish to travel to London or any big city for that matter. Fortunately all my journeys are for pleasure only, so I'm affected little by the current proposals for toll roads and electric vehicles. Furthermore, as (I think) the oldest member of our club, I doubt very much I'll be driving anything much after 2030   .

 

I actually think the policy is counter-intuitive to a city like London though  as usual with this farcical lot in charge they are picking numbers out the air and headlining policies which have no substance, as is the trait of populist leaders.

 

The majority of car owners park on the road, the majority do not have big houses to generate their own electricity, the majority do not have driveways. Many people walk, cycle or use public transport network. Many people live in flats their cars parked well away from the property. There are 5 lamp posts on our cul-del-sac road, there are around 50 cars parked. You cannot scale up bay charging as the spaces are needed for residents with ICE cars to park. There are 262 charge points in Richmond Upon Thames, in a borough of 185,000 people after a seriously concerted effort to scale up over the last few years.

 

If anything, this policy totally suits out of major city places, where people have to drive because amenities are so spread out. Where housing is cheaper and you get more for you money and more likely to have space to have housing with driveways/park outside.

[stanski]

I don't think we can predict what the future holds, technology and attitudes to these things change weekly, as do the politicians.

 

https://youtu.be/dDPPe2UCWCM

 

 

[ilogikal1]

2 hours ago, galaxyg said:

Does anyone here actually know anyone that wants a self-driving car? I don't.

Some people don't enjoy driving and do so only as a means of transport, not for fun like most people on here.

Self-driving cars will appeal to those people for their commute where public transport isn't a particularly viable alternative - stick the self-drive on and spend your commute working (if you can) instead of driving, it makes more sense than volunteering your personal time to commute to and from an office each day... assuming that's ever going to be a thing again, of course - but also for those seasonal journeys such as taking the immediate family to see extended family at Christmas, for example; stick the car on auto-pilot and spend a couple of hours playing games with the kids instead of driving - I can see that in particular appealing to the masses (who don't hate their family, at least).

 

1 hour ago, coldel said:

 

I actually think the policy is counter-intuitive to a city like London though  as usual with this farcical lot in charge they are picking numbers out the air and headlining policies which have no substance, as is the trait of populist leaders.

Nail/head; this announcement is little more than vote whoring to the greenists. There's very little action to suggest that this (or the other 9 points in the 10-point Climate Change Plan) is actually being considered as a real thing.

[stanski]

I have said it before where is Mr Fusion?

I mean even Delorean had that in the 80s where did we go wrong since?