Why are we all so dumb

[DoogyRev]

41 minutes ago, ATTAK Z said:

Just a thought ... would it not be better for we oldies in UK to contract the virus now,  whilst the carers can cope, rather than later ? ... serious question

 

26 minutes ago, The G Man said:

My Mrs, now a retired biomedical scientist, was musing the exact same thing last week Hugh.

 

What happens if you go round licking hand rails to infect yourself, then get the virus and recover . .  then the medical teams can't cope . . .  then you get it again?

[ATTAK Z]

2 minutes ago, DoogyRev said:

 

 

What happens if you go round licking hand rails to infect yourself, then get the virus and recover . .  then the medical teams can't cope . . .  then you get it again?

Not sure that will happen. Won't you then be immune after one dose ?

[The G Man]

You need to look at how a virus works.  You will not get Covid 19 again, you might get covid 20, or in other words a different virus.  Same idea that you can’t catch aids twice.

 

The experts in charge, pick a virus when it comes to winter flu, that they think will be the most common, then use the antidote that works with that particular virus, we both had flu jabs last year, we both got the flu, just a different strain.

 

Corona virus covid 19, is a particularly virulent virus and, new.  It’s a mutant of something that already exists, but completely different.

 

Hope that makes sense?

 

[The G Man]

*antidote was the wrong word, vaccination was what I should have said

[coldel]

From what I have read they are deliberately trying to do delay the spread at the moment so that people catch it as late in the year as possible as we are still in high Flu season and resources are already stretched. Also by delaying it they have more time to react and put resource in place for the inevitable increase in cases. 

[The G Man]

Not sure that it’s delay due to ‘high flu’ season.  My understanding is that it’s the next phase to stave off a massive impact on emergency services and resources.  Not a ‘deliberate’ action to do anything other than follow the infection/ contamination model.  Contain, delay, mitigate 

[The G Man]

Also, we are about to reap 10 years of ‘austerity’ with a massive impact on our NHS

[The G Man]

.......and still people voted for these bastarts 

[DoogyRev]

3 hours ago, The G Man said:

You need to look at how a virus works.  You will not get Covid 19 again, you might get covid 20, or in other words a different virus.  Same idea that you can’t catch aids twice.

So what you saying is we all all be good until China create COVID-XX (not 19) 

[DoogyRev]

3 hours ago, ATTAK Z said:

Not sure that will happen. Won't you then be immune after one dose ?

What if having COVID-19 make you 50% more susceptible to having COVID-XX? (or what ever the next virus fad is)

[coldel]

6 hours ago, The G Man said:

Not sure that it’s delay due to ‘high flu’ season.  My understanding is that it’s the next phase to stave off a massive impact on emergency services and resources.  Not a ‘deliberate’ action to do anything other than follow the infection/ contamination model.  Contain, delay, mitigate 

The NHS is dealing with flu season still, so the point of “catching it now” is not a good one as they are already stretched. Delay and slow is the aim so that people catch it over a longer period of time to spread the load. If we all went out of our way to catch it now the NHS would collapse in on itself.

[GranTurismoEra]

If you really want to catch Coronavirus and get it out of the way early as opposed to later when services are overstretched. They are paying people £3500 as human guinea pigs. If you die there must be a get out clause of them not having to pay a penny. Small print 

[The G Man]

6 hours ago, DoogyRev said:

So what you saying is we all all be good until China create COVID-XX (not 19) 

What I’m saying is that your own body’s immunity will prevent you catching C19 again,  it won’t stop you catching a different strain

[The G Man]

1 hour ago, coldel said:

The NHS is dealing with flu season still, so the point of “catching it now” is not a good one as they are already stretched. Delay and slow is the aim so that people catch it over a longer period of time to spread the load. If we all went out of our way to catch it now the NHS would collapse in on itself.

Yes, but even if it weren’t high flu season, delay would still be used if, like now cases are building.  My point is, flu season or not, it’s part of the process.

[ATTAK Z]

2 hours ago, coldel said:

The NHS is dealing with flu season still, so the point of “catching it now” is not a good one as they are already stretched. Delay and slow is the aim so that people catch it over a longer period of time to spread the load. If we all went out of our way to catch it now the NHS would collapse in on itself.

Yeah I understand that, but I was considering an early infection for us oldies only (whilst the number of infected and the 'load' on the carers is low)

[coldel]

1 hour ago, The G Man said:

Yes, but even if it weren’t high flu season, delay would still be used if, like now cases are building.  My point is, flu season or not, it’s part of the process.

Aye I agree, but the initial point to this discussion was 'do I catch it now' and in short I think the answer is no. The NHS is traditionally under stress this time of year still due to the back end of flu season, its already having to deal with a fast changing situation with the virus. The last thing we need are people trying to get it, as in effect that undermines the whole point of delay - we need to allow time for the health services to corroborate globally, work out what this is, how to combat it and resource up accordingly - all at the same time as dealing with day to day health issues which are at their peak at this time of year. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by coldel

[The G Man]

That feeds into what the original thread is about, dumb people 

 

Unfortunately, there are about 17.4million dumbasses in the country that we know of 

[GranTurismoEra]

Whats the survival rate for age ranges over 50....I wouldn't be in a rush to catch it 

[scobie140]

If your young fit and healthy then you would be aswel getting now and get it over with since you will be able to just self isolate, moan, feel sorry for yourself and then soldier once you've ridden the storm. Its really just the older, weak and those with under lying health issues that will cause strain on the NHS. Treat it like when kids get the chicken pox?

I am by no means an expert  I just think the media is hyping this into more of an issue than it is when the majority of the population doesn't fall into the vulnerable category. 

[coldel]

Given the anti-immune drugs I have to take for my chronic arthritis I have the immunity of a 90 year old, so even at 44 years old I am a little worried 

[NeeZ]

Just got this 

[Stutopia]

8 hours ago, scobie140 said:

If your young fit and healthy then you would be aswel getting now and get it over with since you will be able to just self isolate, moan, feel sorry for yourself and then soldier once you've ridden the storm. Its really just the older, weak and those with under lying health issues that will cause strain on the NHS. Treat it like when kids get the chicken pox?

I am by no means an expert  I just think the media is hyping this into more of an issue than it is when the majority of the population doesn't fall into the vulnerable category. 

It's easy to dismiss it as panic, but Spanish flu was running around 2-3% mortality and took out 20-50 million people. Yeah we've moved on a helluva lot since then but I wouldn't feel great about getting it, feeling awful, recovering ok, but having spread to a neighbour or relative in their 70s. If it was as easy as deciding those with the best chance of survival should get and the the others shouldn't, there'd be no fatalities.

[DoogyRev]

4 hours ago, SuperStu said:

It's easy to dismiss it as panic, but Spanish flu was running around 2-3% mortality and took out 20-50 million people. 

There have been plenty of virus's in the past, swine flu, Sars, bird flu  . . etc, more commonly looking at history they seem to start in China. My questions are . . . .

• Is this just a case of the world becoming smaller? i.e travel is more accessible?
• Should the world start to become a bigger place by imposing travel and immigration restrictions?
• The reliance of China to the world economy is very apparent (cheap labour etc), should countries do more to be self sufficient?

Thoughts?

[Stutopia]

7 hours ago, DoogyRev said:

There have been plenty of virus's in the past, swine flu, Sars, bird flu  . . etc, more commonly looking at history they seem to start in China. My questions are . . . .

• Is this just a case of the world becoming smaller? i.e travel is more accessible?
• Should the world start to become a bigger place by imposing travel and immigration restrictions?
• The reliance of China to the world economy is very apparent (cheap labour etc), should countries do more to be self sufficient?

Thoughts?

I don’t think you can put the international travel genie back in the bottle, its just an accepted thing now. Nor should we, the benefits are huge (economically and culturally). Though there were no jumbo jets in 1918, it still spread around a bit.

 

Same on the trade thing, so long as its dirt cheap to get stuff made there (therefore dirt cheap to consumers) it wont change. No one buys more expensive things on the off chance it will provide ongoing support to continue methods of production in local areas, in case they’re needed during a pandemic. That kind of long termism needs to be dictated by the state. We’ve collectively pooed our pants over scares on bog roll, which isn’t even essential (in the most severe sense of the word) and is the worst possible reaction.

 

You mention other recent things like SARS, bird flu, MERS - I believe these have come over from animal contact - I’d start looking at places where its more common to keep animals alive for sale to the public. Who needs a full live chicken to buy down the shops? When you can get one packaged up with all the unnecessary bits removed somewhere where there’s half a chance of enforcing hygiene standards.

 

Also, we find it a bit “queasy” in the West imposing restrictions on people’s movement etc in case they get hurt feelings, but evidence suggests that since China pushed the panic button, its had a significant impact https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/world/asia/china-coronavirus-cost.html

 

Big Don had it down as a Democrat hoax last week, he’s declared a national emergency and $55bn fund today. That sort of attitude scares me more than flu.

[gangzoom]

16 hours ago, DoogyRev said:

There have been plenty of virus's in the past, swine flu, Sars, bird flu 

 

I was the most senior medic physically in a reasonable sized hospital when H1N1 (swine flu) reached its peak, I remember to this day the conversation I had with the senior ITU doctor at the time as I sent a 37 year old patient up to ITU with respiratory failure (ARDS) needing ventilation. His exact word were 'That is our last ITU bed, including ventilating in theatres, don't call me for the next one you get, you can try Newcastle (150 miles away) but I doubt they have space, good luck'. That was at 3am, I don't quite know how we made to 9am without another case of ARDS that night.

 

Covid19 is looking roughly 10 times worse demand on ITU/critical care. 

 

Here in the UK we are currently almost exactly 2 weeks behind Italy, this is a quote from two Italian Professors involved with the current crisis.....

Quote

Intensive care specialists are already considering denying life-saving care to the sickest and giving priority to those patients most likely to survive when deciding who to provide ventilation to.

 

In layman terms, what they are talking about is essentially saying if you are old, have a medical problem already and get Covid19 and come to hospital you will not be given life saving treatment as available resource should be reserved for those who may have better chance for surviving..........

 

Bare in mind we are not in a Sci-Fi film, and Italy has a BETTER health care system, more ITU beds than the UK, and this statement has been published in the Lancet - one of the best medical journals around. 

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30627-9/fulltext

 

As I say, here in the UK we are 2 week behind Italy. Managing H1N1, SARAS, Ebola was is like having a 2 week holiday in a 5 star Caribbean resort compared to Covid19. There is a @*!# shower coming, and there is nothing anyone can do about it .

Edited March 14, 2020 by gangzoom