Electric Vehicles are coming

[ATTAK Z]

I'm not a fan but we will shortly be inundated with electric vehicles, so I thought I'd start a thread to enable us to keep up to date. Let's kick off with what VW are doing.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by ATTAK Z

[davey_83]

No we won't, not by owners of this forum anyways. 

[AntelopeSam]

I would love an electric vehicle, would proberbly go for a motorbike first as I could still keep an 'ICE' bike for touring/weekends away and not run out of space. (I'm not ready to fully commit) 

 

My main problem with them though is almost all electric vehicles are hideous, there seems to be a dedicated effort from every manufacturer to make electric cars stand out as being electric/futuristic in there styling.

I would be more interested in a conversion kit, and I'm sure I can't be alone. I can't justify spending 40k on a new car, but if there was a electric motor and battery pack I could buy to convert my second car for £3/4k I'd be seriously contemplating it.

 

Please feel free to delete my comment if it's not what the thread should be about! XD

[Bullet]

7 minutes ago, AntelopeSam said:

I would love an electric vehicle, would proberbly go for a motorbike first as I could still keep an 'ICE' bike for touring/weekends away and not run out of space. (I'm not ready to fully commit) 

 

My main problem with them though is almost all electric vehicles are hideous, there seems to be a dedicated effort from every manufacturer to make electric cars stand out as being electric/futuristic in there styling.

I would be more interested in a conversion kit, and I'm sure I can't be alone. I can't justify spending 40k on a new car, but if there was a electric motor and battery pack I could buy to convert my second car for £3/4k I'd be seriously contemplating it.

 

Please feel free to delete my comment if it's not what the thread should be about! XD

I think thats exactly the way to go, There are millions of cars on the road and instead of scrapping them it would make far more sense to convert them.

[ATTAK Z]

1 hour ago, AntelopeSam said:

Please feel free to delete my comment if it's not what the thread should be about! XD

This thread will go wherever people want to take it and no comments should be deleted as far as I'm concerned. All contributions are very welcome

[andybp]

in 2011 I killed the engine in my Z a year after I bought it and I was torn between replacing with another VQ an lS V8 or going electric but an ev conversion with enough  power to do the Z justice was more than an LS V8 conversion faced with that decision now with current technology I would defiantly go electric 

[AntelopeSam]

I was seriously considering doing the swap to my series Landy a couple of years ago, it seemed most swaps were made by taking the drivetrain from a scrapped Nissan leaf or two but this was only giving maybe 60 miles of range (retaining the 4speed gearbox and transfer case). Buying a motor & cells was around £10'000 at the time)

If only the government gave the same kind of grants for upgrading to electric as they do for buying new. Is it still a £5000 grant? 

[Andy_Muxlow]

I think we are in the golden age of fossil fueled vehicles  with in a few years they will be disappearing slowly. I just hope there will be the infrastructure to cope with all the electric vehicles. I have to park around 30 to 50 yards from my house how are we going to sort out charging points for people like us I wonder? 

[ShortPaul]

I personally have zero interest in electric cars

[scallaway]

I'd take electric cars seriously (for want of a better word) if they didn't take so long to charge! The last thing I want to have to do on a long jouney is factor in another half hour just to be able to travel a full tanks worth again.

 

I get that you can charge the car at home (albeit, very slowly), but that all goes out the window when you want to go further than say London to Manchester. I'm defintely a fan of driving, but I'm not a fan of waiting!

[HEADPHONES]

 

There you go

Part2

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by HEADPHONES

[GranTurismoEra]

https://www.motor1.com/news/369872/bmw-i-hydrogen-next-revealed/

 

I think other alternatives to pure electric have been sort since the mid 90s. Only issue right now is expense to produce the cars

 

I respect the tech behind electric vehicles. Im still a young petrol head, besides ive driven a hybrid for more than a year. Ive done my bit for ultra low emissions lol

Edited October 10, 2019 by GranTurismoEra

[coldel]

What most people miss is that the end to end process has to be Green. No point having an EV if you are burning stuff to create electricity and when it gets to a higher point on the S curve of adoption that we suddenly have tens of million of unchargable batteries, there is a process for smelting down and reusing the metals but the rest is still waste (and the disposal process requires huge amounts of energy again has to come from renewables not burning stuff). At the moment you have the US pulling out of the Paris agreement and shutting down renewable energy projects whilst 'saving' miners jobs and Russia/China who just don't give two hoots. 

 

Yes, get excited about the next shiny Tesla or BMW but there is much more work end to end to be done than in the car design sector as far as I can see.

[AntelopeSam]

There is a large blurred area around EV's

 

I was reading the other day that in Hong Kong it's better for the environment to run a new ICE than an EV. As they have no natural resources close by, to get the fuels to the power stations was more polluting than filling up with unleaded... Yet these cars were still subsidised.

[coldel]

1 hour ago, AntelopeSam said:

There is a large blurred area around EV's

 

I was reading the other day that in Hong Kong it's better for the environment to run a new ICE than an EV. As they have no natural resources close by, to get the fuels to the power stations was more polluting than filling up with unleaded... Yet these cars were still subsidised.

Given its cheaper now to produce wind power than nuclear or fossil fuel stations you would think Hong Kong would be perfectly placed to tap some of that?

[gangzoom]

On 10/10/2019 at 09:34, coldel said:

What most people miss is that the end to end process has to be Green.

 

 

I didn't realise you guys were part of the Rebellion Extinction crowd!!

 

This was the road test video that got my attention when I first looked at EVs back in late 2014.......EVs for me has simply meant I can get the best of both worlds, a large (very large) practical family car, 0-60 mph performance that matches anything I've owned before, but with running costs cheaper than a Datsun Cherry.

 

If you want/like fast cars, EVs are simply the next step.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by gangzoom

[gangzoom]

On 09/10/2019 at 21:03, AntelopeSam said:

I was seriously considering doing the swap to my series Landy a couple of years ago, it seemed most swaps were made by taking the drivetrain from a scrapped Nissan leaf or two but this was only giving maybe 60 miles of range (retaining the 4speed gearbox and transfer case). Buying a motor & cells was around £10'000 at the time)

If only the government gave the same kind of grants for upgrading to electric as they do for buying new. Is it still a £5000 grant? 

 

You wouldn't even get 60 miles transferring a 24/30kWh Leaf drive train into a Landy, your be lucky to see 40 miles I suspect.

 

The Government grant on new cars is down to £3500, I suspect it'll go complete in a few years.

 

EV new prices have actually gone a bit nuts, £40K+ for Leaf, £30K+ for a small Hyundai hatchback, £40K for the cheapest Model 3 (was suppose to be sub £30K), and for anything with a big enough cabin for families/kids your looking at £70K for an Audi/Tesla/Merc SUV.

 

Surprisingly Mini seems to have come up with a sensibly priced EV, the new Mini Electric is going to be £24K brand new with 140 miles of range.  

[ilogikal1]

And just how many times have you gone from 0-60 since buying it?

[Flashback]

For me hydrogen power is the best way forwards, what better emission to end up with than water.  Once again though the cost in producing the fuels is a current challenge.

[gangzoom]

The only advantage hydrogen had over EVs is refueling time, and these days with proper 100KW+ rapid chargers and good efficiency EVs even that advantage is now gone.

 

A 911 and Model 3 takes essentially the same time to do a 800km+ trip across Europe.

 

If your consider a brand new P Model 3 is the same cost as a new BMW M3/AMG 63, but quicker in real world (and lap times according to TopGear), and you have running costs of sub 5p per mile including fuel/service/tyres versus triple that amount on just fuel costs for a M3, I'm not entirely sure why anyone would buy a new BMW M3 instead of Performance Model 3.

 

Oh 250KW+ rapid chargers are now been deployed, on a car like the Model 3 your be able to add 160 miles of range in under 10 minutes.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by gangzoom

[gangzoom]

1 hour ago, ilogikal1 said:

And just how many times have you gone from 0-60 since buying it?

Why would I keep count? I've done 40k, so probably quite a few times :).

[ilogikal1]

11 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

Why would I keep count? I've done 40k, so probably quite a few times :).

Largely because you keep banging on about, it's obviously an important part of your driving experience, so why wouldn't you? However I can honestly say that I have never, not once, done 0-60 on the open road in normal driving conditions, and certainly not in any manner that would mean being able to do it under 3 seconds is worth spunking 6 figures on! Generally speaking, those roads you can legally reach 60 means that you're rarely stopped at a standstill without a queue of traffic in front of you....

 

I mean, we'renot  talking about well handling cars that you could use on a daily basis here, we're talking about launching which, outside of the drag strip, means precisely f**k all to your average motorist.

 

23 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

Oh 250KW+ rapid chargers are now been deployed, on a car like the Model 3 your be able to add 160 miles of range in under 10 minutes.

Given that there are only 2 150KW chargers in the whole of the UK currently, you might as well claim that the millitony KW chargers are now a thing and they'll charge 400 miles of range in 2 seconds for all the use it'll be.

However, regardless, I'm pretty sure 10 minutes to go 160 miles is still more than <5 minutes to go 400+ miles, so where exactly have EV's made up that advantage?

[gangzoom]

6 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said:

However, regardless, I'm pretty sure 10 minutes to go 160 miles is still more than <5 minutes to go 400+ miles, so where exactly have EV's made up that advantage?

You haven't looked up how hydrogen fuel stations actually deliver their fuel have you?

 

If you think you can just rock to a hydrogen fuel station and add 400 miles of range in sub 5 minutes you literally have no idea what your going on about, for a start there aren't even a 400 mile range hydrogen fuel cell car for sale anywhere in the world.

[Flashback]

32 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

The only advantage hydrogen had over EVs is refueling time, and these days with proper 100KW+ rapid chargers and good efficiency EVs even that advantage is now gone.

 

A 911 and Model 3 takes essentially the same time to do a 800km+ trip across Europe.

 

If your consider a brand new P Model 3 is the same cost as a new BMW M3/AMG 63, but quicker in real world (and lap times according to TopGear), and you have running costs of sub 5p per mile including fuel/service/tyres versus triple that amount on just fuel costs for a M3, I'm not entirely sure why anyone would buy a new BMW M3 instead of Performance Model 3.

 

Oh 250KW+ rapid chargers are now been deployed, on a car like the Model 3 your be able to add 160 miles of range in under 10 minutes.

 

From an article on EV chargers:

Ultra-Rapid DC chargers provide power at 100 kW or more. These are typically either 100 kW, 150 kW, or 350 kW – though other maximum speeds are possible. These are the next-generation of rapid charge point, able to keep recharging times down despite battery capacities increasing in newer EVs.

For those EVs capable of accepting 100 kW or more, charging times are kept down to 20-40 minutes for a typical charge. Even if an EV is only able to accept a maximum of 50 kW DC, they can still use ultra-rapid charge points, as the power will be restricted to whatever the vehicle can deal with. As with 50 kW rapid devices, cables are tethered to the unit, and provide charging via either CCS or CHAdeMO connectors.

So really its not negligible at present as that's still 5-10 times as long as filling up on either petrol or hydrogen.

Either way both can become viable options over time, but I think hydrogen would be much easier to scale as we already consume over 70 millions tons of hydrogen daily. 

Many of the arguments for either still revert back to having a sufficient and sustainable power supply, ultimately a green one or we're just robbing Peter to pay Paul.  Realistically none of them are right now, petrol or electric via either method. 

[Flashback]

6 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

You haven't looked up how hydrogen fuel stations actually deliver their fuel have you?

 

If you think you can just rock to a hydrogen fuel station and add 400 miles of range in sub 5 minutes you literally have no idea what your going on about, for a start there aren't even a 400 mile range hydrogen fuel cell car for sale anywhere in the world.

Toyota launched its first production fuel cell vehicle (FCV), the Mirai, in Japan at the end of 2014 and began sales in California, mainly the Los Angeles area, in 2015.^[15] The car has a range of 312 mi (502 km) and takes about five minutes to refill its hydrogen tank.