Nice write up about EV experience in an E Golf

[stanski]

2 minutes ago, coldel said:

Point is, where EVs are most needed i.e. in cities, most people do not own driveways. Therein lies the challenge.

Which is why they need to consider all these ideas about in road charging as you drive etc ,but lets face it, how many roads have pot holes , they cant sort those out so why spend a fortune digging up roads to put charging cables in when in 6 months they will be dug up again for water/gas etc or just pot holed. Its the lack of forward and collaborative thinking that pees me off. Its ok to live the utopian ideal in California for these things but life is different elsewhere.

 

Re Government taxes, if they invent a car that runs on fart gas you can bet they will tax you!

 

What about that news item doing the rounds about banning personal ownership of cars after they have got rid of petrol cars in 2035 or whenever the date is?  Ffs! Adolf would be proud of that kind of thinking!

[coldel]

Yes EVs will be taxed along the same lines as ICE cars are now once they become the market share leader. The tax relief right now is just to stimulate the market to switch over. 

 

Not heard the removal of legal right to ownership, that does sound very draconian and not sure if its even legal, surely its against the 2nd amendment/constitution my right to own a vehicle! 

[stanski]

39 minutes ago, coldel said:

Yes EVs will be taxed along the same lines as ICE cars are now once they become the market share leader. The tax relief right now is just to stimulate the market to switch over. 

 

Not heard the removal of legal right to ownership, that does sound very draconian and not sure if its even legal, surely its against the 2nd amendment/constitution my right to own a vehicle! 

Here you go.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49425402

 

[coldel]

It is all political tit for tat though. Take car ownership away but the investment in public transport has not been sufficient for decades. Blow tens, potentially hundreds of billions on HS2 whilst local services literally fall to pieces. London's public transport is poor when you look at its peers in other countries which are cheaper and better. So where does the government recover the billions it gets in taxation from vehicle ownership in future? 

 

As usual, its very early stage, no practical planning, ideological thinking without any sort of way of implementing it.

Edited August 29, 2019 by coldel

[GranTurismoEra]

@coldel where do you currently park? There must be petitions already for car park charging. If its private you would probably need to reach out to the developers or whoever owns the area to put the charging points up? I think within time they will start putting them up in residential areas 

[coldel]

Park on public street. There are three chargers about ten mins walk away that are usually sat with Smart cars on them all day but otherwise its a drive over to Sainsbury's for a few there.

 

There is no petition for EV charging, I am sure proper charging terminals will arrive in a decade or two though   

[coldel]

Actually the petitions that are active are around the Heathrow expansion, so yes we all must get into EVs immediately or the world will end and our children will die but its ok for the government to sign off on an extra 700 planes a day to fly over populated areas in the name of commerce.

[stanski]

I am just wondering how we will be able to sue the fire service, ambulance or police for not turning up because they either had to stop for a 30.min charge of their vehicles, or not turn up at all.

[ilogikal1]

1 hour ago, stanski said:

I am just wondering how we will be able to sue the fire service, ambulance or police for not turning up because they either had to stop for a 30.min charge of their vehicles, or not turn up at all.

They’ve cunningly been reducing the quality of their services over the last decade or two to combat just that problem by time they’re made to switch to electric. 

 

 

[Ebized]

Would I have an EV?  Only if they are completely self-charging, ideally with a back-up cable should the electric motor(s) fail - rather like the sensible cars that have a spare wheel rather than a bottle of gel when the need arises.  At least I can say when one is bought, I am 100% eco friendly not having to plug-in or fill-up for my journeys.  And fortunate as I am to have a  driveway and garage, I am buggered if I am covering my roof with "look-at-me' solar mirrors or put up a bloody great wind turbine to justify no use of the National Grid.   

 

But what also puts me off most EV's (the lack of 'proper' engine noise aside) and many other new cars atm, is the move towards touchscreens - the Teslas being a prime example.  I put them in the same bracket as dashboards with multiple manual/digital operations - the new A class Mercedes being an example - which has been slated by the motoring press for good reason IMHO.  The H&S lobby bang on about mobiles distracting drivers and that is absolutely right if they are not hands free, but if used genuinely as hands-free then is that really any different than chatting, playing eye-spy with the kids etc in the car?   For me, touchscreens in cars fall in the same category as hand-held phones.

 

An alternative then.....?

 

I recall the frustrating voice connection with the 350s bluetooths - and the endless grumbles from other 350 owners frustrated by madam bellowing back "pardon" when trying to add a new contact.   Years on and being an Apple user, there is now Siri - works OKish (the Porsche is better than our Polo), but I really feel that voice activation is the way our in-car communication should be going: i.e. talk to activate info/changes/send texts etc rather than hoping you have hit the right button or a point on a touchscreen. A simple fingerprint entry on start-up would avoid voice recognition issues.  I hate the touchscreen feature on our Polo in particular with a passion - maybe it was just not designed for my jumbo fingers but by God, using it on the move really does take your eyes off the road.   So I don't use it.....on the move.

 

And once the Government sees tax revenues from road users going downhill as more EVs hit the road, coupled with demands by those who only have on-street parking wanting charging points installed in those roads, you can bet new tax regimes will be brought in to keep the Treasury coffers topped up! 

 

So, a self-charging car with voice activation will help get me in the EV mood and maybe that may not be too long to wait, but in the meantime I will stay with a proper driver's car and enjoy the Chrono and sports exhaust combination that gives me a real and is not being outlawed until well after I meet my maker.  But I will try switching off a few more lights at home to help the NG meet the increasing demand from the growing plug-in crowd.

[coldel]

I think we should all thank our lucky stars we are around at a time when we can enjoy sweet sounding cars that were designed for driving before they get taxed/politicised off the roads and replaced with the EV drone experience. I also agree with the horrendous move to touchscreen tech, its a disaster waiting to happen beggars belief that it is deemed ok when so many laws are being mooted around anything that distracts you from the road be it a device or even eating/drinking.

[GranTurismoEra]

6 hours ago, coldel said:

Actually the petitions that are active are around the Heathrow expansion, so yes we all must get into EVs immediately or the world will end and our children will die but its ok for the government to sign off on an extra 700 planes a day to fly over populated areas in the name of commerce.

if you really want to keep your v6 or gas guzzling sports car post 2030 you may need to install an integrated electric motor to switch on as soon as the enforcement officers get behind you. Hide your exhausts and only come out at night.

 

With an electric motor you too are doing your bit for the environment. 

 

Really, what will you tell your kids if you dont comply with the new rules?

 

 

[GranTurismoEra]

@Ebized A self charging ev would have been thought of but im sure theres a logical explanation for why there isnt one on the market. Or anything that comes remotely close is a petrol hybrid aka Prius, Auris, CRZ, NSX and some hypercars to name a few.

 

Regenerative braking, one pedal driving, solar panelled cars from Holland costing £130,000 are available. Just not in the traditional format.

 

PS the solar panel car from Holland has been touted as the next big thing for the 5% ers. Pure electric and high starting price, but Fisker already did something similar years ago or tried to. but it wasnt purely electric getting a shocking 20 mpg.

Edited August 29, 2019 by GranTurismoEra

[gangzoom]

22 hours ago, GranTurismoEra said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-7402405/Electric-vehicles-depreciate-twice-quickly-petrol-cars.html

 

 

Since when have petrol cars only depreciated by 24% at 3 years?

 

Infact if you bought a used Nissan Leaf in the last 24 months you will have almost certainly not lost more than 10%.

 

I also love the quote about batteries lossing 10% charge at just 3 years.

 

I didn't realise the daily mail was now considered a reliable source for fact

Edited August 29, 2019 by gangzoom

[stanski]

19 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

Since when have petrol cars only depreciated by 24% at 3 years?

 

Infact if you bought a Nissan Leaf in the 24 months you will have almost certainly not lost more than 10%.

 

I also love the quote about batteries lossing 10% charge at just 3 years.

 

I didn't realise the daily mail was now considered a reliable source for fact

The daily mail is always correct because it uses hard facts from Wikipedia!

[stanski]

2 hours ago, Ebized said:

Would I have an EV?  Only if they are completely self-charging, ideally with a back-up cable should the electric motor(s) fail - rather like the sensible cars that have a spare wheel rather than a bottle of gel when the need arises.  At least I can say when one is bought, I am 100% eco friendly not having to plug-in or fill-up for my journeys.  And fortunate as I am to have a  driveway and garage, I am buggered if I am covering my roof with "look-at-me' solar mirrors or put up a bloody great wind turbine to justify no use of the National Grid.   

 

But what also puts me off most EV's (the lack of 'proper' engine noise aside) and many other new cars atm, is the move towards touchscreens - the Teslas being a prime example.  I put them in the same bracket as dashboards with multiple manual/digital operations - the new A class Mercedes being an example - which has been slated by the motoring press for good reason IMHO.  The H&S lobby bang on about mobiles distracting drivers and that is absolutely right if they are not hands free, but if used genuinely as hands-free then is that really any different than chatting, playing eye-spy with the kids etc in the car?   For me, touchscreens in cars fall in the same category as hand-held phones.

 

An alternative then.....?

 

I recall the frustrating voice connection with the 350s bluetooths - and the endless grumbles from other 350 owners frustrated by madam bellowing back "pardon" when trying to add a new contact.   Years on and being an Apple user, there is now Siri - works OKish (the Porsche is better than our Polo), but I really feel that voice activation is the way our in-car communication should be going: i.e. talk to activate info/changes/send texts etc rather than hoping you have hit the right button or a point on a touchscreen. A simple fingerprint entry on start-up would avoid voice recognition issues.  I hate the touchscreen feature on our Polo in particular with a passion - maybe it was just not designed for my jumbo fingers but by God, using it on the move really does take your eyes off the road.   So I don't use it.....on the move.

 

And once the Government sees tax revenues from road users going downhill as more EVs hit the road, coupled with demands by those who only have on-street parking wanting charging points installed in those roads, you can bet new tax regimes will be brought in to keep the Treasury coffers topped up! 

 

So, a self-charging car with voice activation will help get me in the EV mood and maybe that may not be too long to wait, but in the meantime I will stay with a proper driver's car and enjoy the Chrono and sports exhaust combination that gives me a real and is not being outlawed until well after I meet my maker.  But I will try switching off a few more lights at home to help the NG meet the increasing demand from the growing plug-in crowd.

Colin I have to agree.

 

I hate touch screens or those Audistylie fake speedos! Yes they look pretty but are we all really 12 years old and need to be entertained the entire time(like their chavvy flash and swipe indicators) sorry off topic!

 

What we need is a V6/V8 engine to charge the battery and some huge electric motors to pull the skin off your eyelids when you put the foot down. They have this self charging lark the wrong way round haha!

 

I dont really like voice control probably because of my northen eee by gum accept the voice woman dunnneee understand meee...

 

I am old fashioned I want a proper button even a knife switch will do.

 

Tech luddites please make a line here.

[GranTurismoEra]

1 hour ago, gangzoom said:

Since when have petrol cars only depreciated by 24% at 3 years?

 

Infact if you bought a used Nissan Leaf in the last 24 months you will have almost certainly not lost more than 10%.

 

I also love the quote about batteries lossing 10% charge at just 3 years.

 

I didn't realise the daily mail was now considered a reliable source for fact

Looking on Autotrader Nissan Leaf loses up to £13000 in value post 12 months. At 36 months it being sold at £12-15,000 for the mid and low spec. More likely top spec leaf will retail at £20,000 post 36 months low mileage for the £40,000 new leaf top spec. The mid range model at £36000 new and lower spec at £30,000 new. 

 

Tesla Model S is being sold at £39-62k 2016 models. Not sure how much they were brand new. Guessing 60-90k depending on model. Teslas holding better value due to brand popularity in this sector. 30% depreciation is good. But thats Tesla. Other brands depreciate far more.

 

Daily Mail may be the butt of jokes, but that particular article wasnt far off.

 

The unwanted Nismo 370z loses up to £15,000 in the first 2 years from £40,000 extreme case 37.5% but the Germans such as the older M2 lost up to £12,000 after 2 years and 20,000 miles

 

30 - 39% percentile range depreciation is more realistic on petrol cars 3 years old and 30k miles. 

 

I appreciate people like what they like. I was interested to see what other brands apart from Tesla can offer. Nissan offer 300 mile range which is good. 

 

Im not a huge fan of electric cars but I appreciate what they do. Its just not feasible for most people until the proper infrastructure is in place especially those without a cushty driveway or charging points they can see from their living room overlooking the street.

 

Im not arguing for or against. Just giving an opinion never claimed anything as fact. 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by GranTurismoEra

[gangzoom]

What you need to account for with a Leaf/Zoe is the massive discounts RCI supported via crazy PCP/Lease deals back in 2015/16.

 

I had one on PCP for ,£0 deposit and £200/month. On my paper work it showed around £8k of 'discounts' financed by Nissan to enable those kind of figures. This is what killed Leaf/Zoe residuals, not people worrying about batteries running down as the article implies.

 

However buy a cheap used Leaf now and your loss hardly any money. 2p per mile motoring, no services costs, reliable, fits the bill perfectly for some one looking for a £10k family 2nd car.

 

Aside from Leaf/Zoe if you look at i3/Ioniqi/Tesla residuals your see they are rock solid. 

 

The amount of anitEV news really is crazy, and the articles posted on this thread shows that really well. But big oil was never going to just go down without a fight, but long term they haven't got a chance. Even Chris Harris has now ordered a P Model 3.

[coldel]

I would happily get into an EV family car, they are soulless functional machines so suit the role perfectly  

 

Main barriers at the moment are the initial outlay is still not worth it and there is no overnight charging facility for the majority who live in major cities. It just isnt a practical ownership. Yes some EV articles I agree are overly against them, but conversely have seen plenty which are overly positive that ignore all the real barriers that exist for many car owners. 

 

First thing first is to switch our actual energy supply to renewables. Next the production and disposal process of EVs needs sorting out too that is currently ignored in any carbon footprint measure in any articles I read. Then more research is done into alternative forms of transport aside from EV which is more scalable - its all good and well electrifying cars for the 'haves' of the world when billions of africans, south americans, and other poorer parts of the world still drive around in big diesel mercs. Getting a large proportion of the UK into EVs by 2050 is not really going to have much, if any, notable effect on global warming if the rest of the world is doing something else.

[stanski]

Is there really no service cost for an Ev? 

 

Being naive here do they have 'normal brakes' still or just the regen ones?

 

Surely they have bearings that wear out and steering and some sort of cooling system for the drivetrain?

 

Presume its going to be a check the tyres, check the software, top up washer bottle and offski you go?

 

I agree that if the UK went fully renewable green tomorrow it would make sod all difference to the world, whilst everyone else is still pumping crap out, not least the energy involved to mine for the minerals and ores required to manufacture the batteries and other components unique to EVs ,then ship them and the finished cars around the world in cargo ships powered by sails? Ooh hang on no diesels....

 

Its good to see peoples opinions on this thread and yes the press does seem to focus on either end of the spectrum, bad and good about EV, rather than a more down to earth review, which only people who own these cars today can really do, because they face the issues not mentioned in press articles and also ways around them by planning and common sense.

 

Sadly I will always be a petrolhead and as much as I accept the EV eventuality I do feel sorry for kids who have never or will never experience what we did growing up with the stinky gas guzzlers with all their foibles yet great fun at the same time. Being able to drive how we choose and not having some stupid computer telling us the slightest deviation from the expected route.

 

Welcome to 1984 Mr Orwell would be proud ( rather than 1984 Duran Duran, big hair etc...)

 

 

[ilogikal1]

33 minutes ago, stanski said:

Is there really no service cost for an Ev? 

It’s not even remotely true that there’s no service costs on EV’s.

 

Or if he’s going to continue to claim that then it’s equally true that there are no (EV) service costs on ICE vehicles....

 

They still use traditional braking systems (rotors, pads and all) but due to the regen systems EV’s tend to use up the brakes less frequently... than an equivalent 2+ tonne vehicle without regen. 

 

At the end of the day it’s still machine and it requires maintenance, just different maintenance to ICE vehicles when it comes to the motor... but pretty much only the motor!

[GranTurismoEra]

Initial Outlay of most brands still more expensive than the gas guzzling used car run over 2 years. 

 

Even the Honda E with its range of 125 miles they want to price at £30,000

 

On a more positive note my brothers favourite Porsche Taycan just got 7:42 on the Nurburgring. Porsche boast no power fade in comparison to Tesla with lots of consecutive launches. That caused a bit of a storm online. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.carscoops.com/2019/08/porsche-taycan-prototype-shows-how-it-copes-after-30-consecutive-launches/amp/

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by GranTurismoEra

[gangzoom]

17 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

At the end of the day it’s still machine and it requires maintenance, just different maintenance to ICE vehicles when it comes to the motor... but pretty much only the motor!

37K in our Tesla, amount paid for 'dealer servicing' = £0.

 

£450 for 4 tyres and thats yet.

 

Even the windscreen wipers have been fine. Cabin air filter I will replace my self next year for £5 third party item, I already have a third party sourced HEPA filter as well, again a 10 minute job. 

 

Battery coolant change at 50K, and air-con regas next year, but am struggling to think of any else.

 

Brake pads are hardly worn, 95% of slowing down via the motor and not friction brakes. 

 

oh 12V battery will need changing at some point I suppose......

 

Compared to an similar performance petrol SUV, the maintenance costs are tiny.

Edited August 31, 2019 by gangzoom

[gangzoom]

16 hours ago, GranTurismoEra said:

On a more positive note my brothers favourite Porsche Taycan just got 7:42 on the Nurburgring. Porsche boast no power fade in comparison to Tesla with lots of consecutive launches.

 

The Taycan is great, and pricing is suppose to about £90K start so bang in line with the current 911. The quick one though that did the 'ring time will be £150k+ before options, so Roadster 2.0 money, but still if you can afford it hard to think of a better car for the money. 

 

It will be interesting to see how many Porsche shifts versus the 911/Panamera, Porsche is now mainly a SUV brand, and I can see them becoming mainly an EV brand very soon. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by gangzoom

[Ebized]

1 hour ago, gangzoom said:

 

It will be interesting to see how many Porsche shifts versus the 911/Panamera, Porsche is now mainly a SUV brand, and I can see them becoming mainly an EV brand very soon. 

You could well be right - in the photo taken at Porsche Silverstone all the spaces in front of the temporary black hoarding are having chargers fitted, in addition to ones they already have.....