TT350 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 So, I'm thinking for years, I've felt like a woman,.... Just kidding. What's your thoughts on transgenderism? I know we have a very left wing majority on here, and that's fine. So why do you feel it's ok for, example, a young adolescent (as many are) to decide he or she is the wrong gender. Given that, at that age, immaturity and ignorance should be enjoyed. Innocence. Not pondering on such massive, fundamental and far reaching decisions. I think they should at the very least, reach young adulthood. And parents, IMO, owe it to their children to be wise enough to realise that. I am a monumentally different person than I was even at 25. That news about the school going gender neutral had my pondering this. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 It’s not like they’re all getting stuff chopped off/added on as tweens, live and let live for me Clive. Much like the abortion brouhaha in the US, I find it really hard to get my head around getting worked up about what decisions someone else makes. Don’t believe in it, don’t do it, easy; but if other people want to do something, what’s it go to do with anyone else 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Tones to unpack. As a parent to young children I think teaching children about same sex couples just doesn't need to happen. Why not let kids be kids? it would seem special treatment being given to the minority at the expense of rational thinking towards the majority. Gender is a state of mind apparently and one's mind can be impaired. There's no limit and imo no truth towards self identification. The world of sports is going to/has already felt the impact of self identification. Young teenage boys, competing in women's wrestling is only going to end one way. Men do things better than women and women do other things better than men. Everyone is looking for love and fulfillment, to which the LBGT community is only to happy take on vulnerable members imo. Agreed lots of people look back at their teenage years and think wow, what was I doing.? Did I really prioritise that over this. Is the suicide rate among the LBGT community so prevalent because at some point they realise they made a mistake? Doubt the data would be forthcoming and difficult to show as this relys on truth on a survey, allowing for embarrassment. Definitely no hate needs to be pointed in any direction, however understanding and help to stamp out negativity towards one another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) Personally I would have no problem with my 7 year old son being taught that some people are different to others. Which then when it comes to actual sex education when he is much older that all types that do exist, are real, and are out there, are included. Its there, it's how the world is. The world is not 100% populated by heterosexual couples. Even if it is 'only' 10% or a minority it is fundamentally wrong to ignore that in education, are we not meant to educate? Where do you stop? Should we on the same grounds cease teaching about war? Its horrendous, its about murder and killing, yet is glamourised as 'we are the goodies they are the baddies' when it is taught. Religious studies why are we teaching this at school? Why is this forced onto children before they can form their own opinion? Science, is changing regularly, what we understood yesterday could be superseded tomorrow, is it really the truth? 100 years ago in a classroom should we have taught the idea that this car engine thing will work is hilarious, its slower than a horse... In terms of suicide in LGBT community, it is true it is higher, but its been shown in many studies by experts that 'i have made a mistake' is not part of it. Suicide is often linked to loneliness, segregation from society, a feeling of hoplessness - simply sealing young adults off from this understanding will only make it worse, not better. Ultimately kids aged 12-13 and above have phones, have access to the internet, they are going to see this, I would rather they had at least some balanced view of this part of our community from a qualified teacher than reading crap put out by unverified groups on the internet. Edited July 12, 2019 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanski Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Interesting topic on this forum but its always been a club willing to express honest options and unlike other forums staying cool about it. We had a guy who 'changed over' to a woman at my old job. It was handled very well by the company and everyone treated her as before. There was the initial shock factor but that lasted a day or 2 then life carried on as normal. It takes some b@lls to do that and stay in the same company. I would have expected a move to a new job elsewhere as the new person start fresh? Either way people get on with life. I can understand the lbgt community trying to highlight injustice and asking to be treated equally ,well I treat them no differently to anybody else. I expect there will always be the small minded muppets who dont like anything other than what is considered so called normal these days but there always will be. Its when some idiot politicians start ramming stuff down peoples throats , like the school curriculum fuss recently , I start to get annoyed? There is no need live and let live dont make stuff a choice of this or that , you end up making the prejudice. Just remember since the advent of 24 hour news channels we have a tonne of stuff in the press that years ago nobody would care or be bothered about but you need to fill that empty space. Hence the massive fuss over Nike Trainers (off topic slightly) being racist? Really? It was probably some young graphic designer naively thinking hey thats a cool looking Amercan flag would look great on our trainers, didnt even bother checking Wikipedia because that is the Gods honest truth! The world is doomed if we lap all this rubbish up. Anyway happy Friday live well people dont fight each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Just now, stanski said: Its when some idiot politicians start ramming stuff down peoples throats , like the school curriculum fuss recently , I start to get annoyed? There is no need live and let live dont make stuff a choice of this or that , you end up making the prejudice. It was actually the other way around, teachers and ex-students in numerous consultations were saying that this sort of teaching was missing, that when it was attempted it was badly done due to lack of resource. There was a lot of pressure from the teaching community and various groups on the government to introduce this for years, it actually took something like 20 years of pressure to get them to fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanski Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 46 minutes ago, coldel said: It was actually the other way around, teachers and ex-students in numerous consultations were saying that this sort of teaching was missing, that when it was attempted it was badly done due to lack of resource. There was a lot of pressure from the teaching community and various groups on the government to introduce this for years, it actually took something like 20 years of pressure to get them to fold. Oh right well I never knew? See that's what's 24 hour news does for you. Damn where is my wiki page now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 I believe it's possible to confuse and influence young minds, gender is nothing more than a state of mind - imo it'll cause a pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Pandemic? Please don't tell me you're actually comparing gender identity to a disease. You're right though, gender identity is a state of mind. It's a very individual thing, and I won't ever pretend to understand it, but at the same time whatever someone feels is a totally personal thing that no-one can say is right or wrong. We've spent years telling young people what they should or shouldn't think, what's the harm in educating them that some people (including maybe themselves) feel differently inside to others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) The OP thinks there is a ”left wing majority” on here. Interesting. If left wing = tolerance I think somebody should tell the Labour party. And I still see posts on here using ”gay” to describe things pejoratively. As far as I'm concerned, the golden rule in life should be if a person wants or feels they have to do something that a) makes them happier and b) isn't hurting anyone else, let them get on with it. Education and tolerance are the key to a good life and a happier World. I'd rather live in a country where transgenderism is accepted and featured in education than in one of the numerous countries where it can land a person in prison or dead. Edited July 13, 2019 by sipar69 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ekona said: Pandemic? Please don't tell me you're actually comparing gender identity to a disease. You're right though, gender identity is a state of mind. It's a very individual thing, and I won't ever pretend to understand it, but at the same time whatever someone feels is a totally personal thing that no-one can say is right or wrong. We've spent years telling young people what they should or shouldn't think, what's the harm in educating them that some people (including maybe themselves) feel differently inside to others? Stress is the no. cause of illness, I would consider depression and anxiety illnesses because everywhere you look there's less and less truth in the world, ergo the following: 'Post-truth' named 2016 word of the year by Oxford Dictionaries. ... Thedictionary defines “post-truth” as “relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief.” I remain young children 4-6yrs old don't need to know about gender. It's answers to questions not being asked. Sorry to repeat, but minds can be influenced and confused, gender is a state of mind - again only my opinion. Edited July 13, 2019 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) I remember as a 15 year old in school sitting in art class discussing this with fellow classmates. The teacher admitted she had transgender and gay friends. All the students thought she was weird and the whole concept was disgusting. The teacher however was shocked and thought we were ignorant and out of touch. In todays world as far as primary school they are teaching year 2s gender studies and about societies need to accept it. The muslim kids parents arent having it hence the protests and pulling kids out of school. My opinion is to let kids be kids. You bring up your kids the way you see fit. Children shouldnt be politicized but it may be necessary to explain to them the madness going on. Yes theyve always been in society. Its just now you must "tolerate" or be "tolerant". I hate that word. Might as well say put up with lol. Live and let live But you must explain to Sally why Scott can leave school in July and return in September to be known as Stacey. Good luck to all you parents. Maybe parents are afraid of the influence on their own kids. Really and truly the concern is about your own kids. Also we knew there were gay kids in school as far back as year 8. I sat next to one. The threat of suspension to anyone caught bullying is enough to buck your ideas up. So a long absence and return to school meant the parents werent messing about neither was the school. Majority didnt come out till they were in sixth form. Same with transgenders in order to avoid the bullying as most of the trouble makers didnt stay on for sixth form and had left. Edited July 13, 2019 by GranTurismoEra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 no one in this forum was taught about gender in school at a young age, does anyone honestly hate or would bully, mind to share a seat on the bus with a trans or walk across the road to get away from a trans person? No I would like to expect a trans person just the same as a straight person would be able to have **** taken out about how the look, how they talk, their height etc etc oh wait, not allowed - special treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 maybe gender studies is an attempt by the government to raise awareness and acceptance or reduce bullying and violence against a group that has long been on the outside of society. Only time will tell if it has made a difference or caused more anger and an increase in right winged views. It can have a reverse effect as well unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, davey_83 said: ...everywhere you look there's less and less truth in the world, ergo the following: 'Post-truth' named 2016 word of the year by Oxford Dictionaries. ... Thedictionary defines “post-truth” as “relating to or denoting circumstances in which objective facts are less influential in shaping public opinion than appeals to emotion and personal belief.” [/flat Earth irony] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 It's the world we live in, my truth and your truth are both truths. Feelings, personal understanding and opinions trump's facts it would seem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 38 minutes ago, davey_83 said: It's the world we live in, my truth and your truth are both truths. Feelings, personal understanding and opinions trump's facts it would seem. Yeah, unless you plan to navigate your ship on truth or fly a plane on truth, facts are under appreciated by the masses 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 So far not educating children effectively about this has resulted in high suicide rates, hatred, violence towards and rejection of anyone that has a gender feeling that doesn't align with the old fashioned view of a binary system. Not teaching has not worked. Time for change...that said, I get that from a religious point of view being played out in muslim communities that because this is against values written in their book by default they have to protest, they have no choice not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) Show me the evidence that a lack of education to the public, directly has an effect towards the higher levels of suicide among the trans community. Is it possible to cause a hate crime by accident? How many genders are there? Maybe an assumption is being made of rejection and/or hate, when really it isn't? Again honestly would anyone on this forum make fun off or bully a trans person? Was your education lacking a gender info class? I'm being facetious, but I believe a the push for this is being pinned on 'the children have to learn about this inorder to reduce the suicide rate' from my personal experience, children already are the most inclusive towards people that are different. If knowing that trans lifestyle is being taught to school children makes you feel more accepted in society, you need another means of love and self worth. It's a movement that isn't going away, we do all need the catch up but I remain children have no need to learn about gender. Gender identification is in the mind, a mind can be influenced. Edited July 13, 2019 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, coldel said: So far not educating children effectively about this has resulted in high suicide rates, hatred, violence towards and rejection of anyone that has a gender feeling that doesn't align with the old fashioned view of a binary system. Not teaching has not worked. Time for change...that said, I get that from a religious point of view being played out in muslim communities that because this is against values written in their book by default they have to protest, they have no choice not to. The protest isn't towards trans people, it's towards the need for a mindset to be taught to children at such a young age. There's a difference, otherwise they would have been protesting towards pride events to which they haven't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) By that rationale you could oust any subjective subject from school; no need to “teach” art or music, people can make what they like of those subjects. Or even going right back to pre-school and nurseries all across the country; ban that teaching of “free play” nonsense, kids shouldn’t need to learn how to interact with other children until they want to. When did any education become a such a terrible thing in your life that you would deny anyone else of some knowledge? Edited July 13, 2019 by ilogikal1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 I agree by that rationale nothing about the world around you should be taught until you are old enough to be deemed capable of making your own decisions. Basically let kids play in the playground until they are 18 then go for it...makes complete sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Only one at a time though. Can’t let be influenced by other kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) Edited July 13, 2019 by TT350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 I treat everyone, on an individual basis, with respect and thoughtfulness. That's the only way I know how to be. So, I can't say I don't like lefties, I can't say I like all right wing people. I'm a really mild person and I don't want to force my ideals on anyone else. I don't know why our kids have to have it forced on them, at an age where they should have no great, existential questions. Just let them enjoy being young. Let their early sexual conquests be awkward and funny to look back on. I remember when I was 6. You know what I identified as? AnF14 Tomcat. Then an F15 Eagle. My mate and I would chase each other round the playground getting a lock on (non sexual) then throwing a tennis ball at one another. A few years older at about 13, I wanted to be an Astartes, warrior of the imperium. A 7'6" genetically enhanced super soldier in impenetrable power armour. I'd still really like to be one. And the F14 is my favourite fighter jet. Such a beautiful craft. But, I'm so glad I never had my teachers force me to question if I was in the right body, putting the right piece of equipment into the right hole. Yeah, there were tons of girls I wanted to rail. And Ms Bidoulph was so erotic and sexual it was unreal. Always wore shiny tan stockings with a seam up the back and a short pencil skirt and silk blouses. Damn. But NO! I had no one say to me "Are ya SURE ya don't fancy boys, and are ya SURE you wouldn't rather be a girl?! There was a gay dude at school. He was a proper mincer, but no one took the Mickey. He hung out with the fittest girls, whereas none of us got a look in. Well, I didn't. Years later, he's left his religion where his dad was very high ranking. Hes left his fake marriage and is now mincing up and down the isles for British Airways. He knew he was gay. We knew he was gay. Now everyone knows hes gay. And everyone is happy. No one has been forced to take all that on at 6 years old. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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