Stability issue on new tyres

[Redsky]

I had P zero rears on my 350 when I got it, to be fair in the dry they were really grippy, probably helped that they were pretty worn so had a lot of contact but honestly it felt like if someone spilt a drink in front of my I would spin they were utterly horrendous in the wet.

 

The P zero neros I had on a rented mustang in the US worked a fair bit better but again just felt unsure in the wet.

[350Butcher]

So much hate for a tyre that I currently have on my focus st and have run before on road cars and always got on with. 

To unsettle these on the road you lot drive a LOT faster than I do!!

 

I know it’s a 2017 test but Evo ranked it second against opposition that I read people saying are miles better than everything else. It was so rubbish it set fastest outright lap times both in dry and wet conditions............terrible, lethal tyre all a sudden 2 years later?? Really?? 

 

https://dsonqtq9c1uhr.cloudfront.net/document/global/280/190/95006-Evo-TyreTest2017-1505470066031.pdf

[Ekona]

On a FWD scrabble wagon. I really don’t like the EVO tests for that reason alone, although I appreciate they need to appeal to the mass market. Can’t argue with the figures at all, I can only go from experience. 

[pintopete58]

Hi   i have p zero front 245 35 19 and continental rear 275 35 19 and don't have any  problems 

[350Butcher]

1 hour ago, Ekona said:

I can only go from experience. 

 

With the greatest of respect I’d rather take the experience of a full time motoring journo and racing driver regarding the quality and performance of my tyres. 

 

Evo do tyre reviews every year, they’re a really good read and agree or not it’s fact from some seriously fast guys. 

[davey_83]

2 hours ago, pintopete58 said:

Hi   i have p zero front 245 35 19 and continental rear 275 35 19 and don't have any  problems 

You don't drive fast enough to unsettle Chinese retreads lol

[Ekona]

1 hour ago, 350Butcher said:

 

With the greatest of respect I’d rather take the experience of a full time motoring journo and racing driver regarding the quality and performance of my tyres. 

 

Evo do tyre reviews every year, they’re a really good read and agree or not it’s fact from some seriously fast guys. 

That’s cool, I can respect that opinion fella  Let’s not forget I think the Eagle F1s are utterly shocking in the wet too, and am convinced the RE070 give better grip which just shouldn’t be the case (it is though)! 

 

What concerns me is how many of these tests by different mags come out with such drastically different results. I appreciate there’s always a human element taken into account with regards to feel, but when you look across the tests there’s very rarely a choice that tops them all. 

[hawker1986]

I am sure that the issue raised is related to the P-zeros but I don't think entirely to do with mixing the tyres. Its because the P-zeros are rubbish and in no way similar to the MPSS. I have much less of an issue with mixing tyres front to back than others here seem to - I wouldn't mix on the same axel but so long as you have something similar I don't think front to back is a problem. I recently replaced our rear MPSS with MPS4 and have had no problems what so ever with stability with MPSS on the front - the car is rock solid. 

Same deal with the winter set going from Pilot Alpin 4 - 5 on the rear - no problems at all. The idea that you need to replace good quality tyres when they are only half worn on the front is silly - just stick with the same brand and grade and I think you will be fine (just my experience obviously don't have the same knowledge on these things as Dan ).

Edited June 14, 2019 by hawker1986

[Rikz2004]

7 hours ago, Ekona said:

That’s cool, I can respect that opinion fella  Let’s not forget I think the Eagle F1s are utterly shocking in the wet too, and am convinced the RE070 give better grip which just shouldn’t be the case (it is though)! 

 

What concerns me is how many of these tests by different mags come out with such drastically different results. I appreciate there’s always a human element taken into account with regards to feel, but when you look across the tests there’s very rarely a choice that tops them all. 

I think this is due to the size and car the tyre is being tested on. Some tyres work really well on lighter fwd cars, but stick them on a heavy rwd car and they're mediocre for example. And also some tyres work really well in some sizes but not so good in others.

 

This is probably partly the reason why michelin PS4S only come in 19 and above and they have the PS4 for 18 and below.

 

11 hours ago, 350Butcher said:

So much hate for a tyre that I currently have on my focus st and have run before on road cars and always got on with. 

To unsettle these on the road you lot drive a LOT faster than I do!!

 

I know it’s a 2017 test but Evo ranked it second against opposition that I read people saying are miles better than everything else. It was so rubbish it set fastest outright lap times both in dry and wet conditions............terrible, lethal tyre all a sudden 2 years later?? Really?? 

 

https://dsonqtq9c1uhr.cloudfront.net/document/global/280/190/95006-Evo-TyreTest2017-1505470066031.pdf

 

I get that tyre reviews are supposed to be objective etc etc, but unless they've been tested on the car that you own, they can only be used to inform your decision. Either way, I've never personally rated pirellis from my own experience and wouldn't put them on my 350z, but obv everyone's own experiences will be different. You're also comparing how they perform on a fwd hatchback and then saying they should be just as good on a rwd coupe, which is a big claim.

 

I'd be interested to know what your theory is for why the OP is experiencing the issues he currently has? I've got michelin ps4 on the front and Bridgestone's on the rear. I have never experienced any issues like the OP has and I drive pretty fast sometimes, so it can't be an inherent issue with mixing tyres.

 

I replaced the fronts before they were even half worn as when I bought the car it came with some mid range fronts, and even with those on the car didn't behave the way the op is describing!

 

[leebottrill]

I’ve got the car booked in to the garage on Monday to have a check of the suspension (amongst other things). It could be my shocks are warn and the new tyres have accentuated the problem. 

 

I drove over home yesterday, another way to describe the problem would be to say that it feels like it’s almost tram lining. 

 

Anyway, whatever it is I can feel something isn’t right. I’ve had the year for over 5 years so know what it should feel like. 

[blobbish]

Some years back when I was running Toyo T1R's on a modded skoda fabia. They were great for the car, I got told by my tunners (Jabba Sport) that the litreture on the Toyo Proxy 4 ( or something like it) were a performance tyre of the same caibre.

 

I had a quaife fitted at the same time and went out for a test drive. I thought I was driving a barge. Steering input felt like seconds and the car just wallowed.

 

I contacted Toyo and threatened  them under the Sales of goods act, as the tyres were listed on their site as high performance but they were anything but. Anyway, they sent me 4 new T1R's and I told the garage fitting them to keep the proxies (only covered 300 miles).

 

Coincidentally I wouldn't put them on the Zed. There are two things I dont thing you should be cheap on. Brakes and tyres.

[350Butcher]

2 hours ago, Rikz2004 said:

You're also comparing how they perform on a fwd hatchback and then saying they should be just as good on a rwd coupe, which is a big claim.

 

I'd be interested to know what your theory is for why the OP is experiencing the issues he currently has?

 

I don't believe it is a big claim to suggest that a tyre that performs well on one car would be good on another at all, obviously there are many variables from cars weight to how the engine delivers its power, widths for aqua planning performance and so on........I'd say its a bigger claim to suggest the same tyre (in correct specification for the chosen vehicle) would give a totally different performance when fitted from one car to another. I have run p zero on my DE 350z as well as my current Focus estate, 2 completely different cars in almost every way and on both their performance was plenty good enough for fast and safe road use in all conditions. Would Ferrari and Mclaren really use Pirelli if they were rubbish? Would they ruin their chassis for the sake of being paid from a tyre manufacturer? Or did they make that relationship because they're good? I've never read a review of these marques and the article mentioning anywhere the chassis being let down by the tyre its on...............and they do mention from time to time about cars that do come from factory with poor tyre choices

 

Same story with the Yoko AD08's I've run on my Evo and Z's again totally different cars and yet the same great performance from the same tyre in correct spec for the vehicles...........so should you ignore tyre reviews because they don't use your car.........I don't think so, a good tyre is a good tyre.

 

Regarding the OP's issue........I'd go with geo being out, bushes/sus worn. Be interesting to see what's found when it goes in. Hope you get it all sorted

[Rikz2004]

1 hour ago, 350Butcher said:

 

I don't believe it is a big claim to suggest that a tyre that performs well on one car would be good on another at all, obviously there are many variables from cars weight to how the engine delivers its power, widths for aqua planning performance and so on........I'd say its a bigger claim to suggest the same tyre (in correct specification for the chosen vehicle) would give a totally different performance when fitted from one car to another. I have run p zero on my DE 350z as well as my current Focus estate, 2 completely different cars in almost every way and on both their performance was plenty good enough for fast and safe road use in all conditions. Would Ferrari and Mclaren really use Pirelli if they were rubbish? Would they ruin their chassis for the sake of being paid from a tyre manufacturer? Or did they make that relationship because they're good? I've never read a review of these marques and the article mentioning anywhere the chassis being let down by the tyre its on...............and they do mention from time to time about cars that do come from factory with poor tyre choices

 

Same story with the Yoko AD08's I've run on my Evo and Z's again totally different cars and yet the same great performance from the same tyre in correct spec for the vehicles...........so should you ignore tyre reviews because they don't use your car.........I don't think so, a good tyre is a good tyre.

 

Regarding the OP's issue........I'd go with geo being out, bushes/sus worn. Be interesting to see what's found when it goes in. Hope you get it all sorted

I think the ones that are used on ferrari's and mclarens will be designed specifically for those cars and will be a different compound to standard p zeros.

 

I have taken tyre reviews and forum advice (not from this forum) as gospel before on tyres and was massively disappointed, so I would respectfully disagree (once bitten, twice shy and all that). There's is also the fact that a great tyre for 1 person could be a bad tyre for the next as a lot of it is down to driving style and subjective feel.

 

I get that OP's issues could be down to worn suspension parts, but with all things being equal and when the only thing being changed is the tyres it would lead me to the obvious conclusion. That is not to say that OP doesn't have worn suspension components and that is being highlighted by the change in tyre.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Rikz2004
Clarification

[davey_83]

To be fair the youtube reviews of the MPS4 shown on a Focus ST and a e92 M3 with very similar comments towards overall performance, demonstrating a good tyre is a good tyre. 

 

No wonder super car owners crash so much, they must all had off the shelf tyres (same make & model) and not tyres from the manufacturer direct. 

[350Butcher]

7 hours ago, Rikz2004 said:

I think the ones that are used on ferrari's and mclarens will be designed specifically for those cars and will be a different compound to standard p zeros.

 

I have taken tyre reviews and forum advice (not from this forum) as gospel before on tyres and was massively disappointed, so I would respectfully disagree (once bitten, twice shy and all that). There's is also the fact that a great tyre for 1 person could be a bad tyre for the next as a lot of it is down to driving style and subjective feel.

 

100% the ones fitted to Ferrari/Mclaren are designed specifically for those cars but those manufacturers work alongside each other and all that data and tech regarding every aspect of the tyre from tread patterns/carcass construction etc all gets fed down the line and run out in the "lesser" p zero (in this case) to little me with a humble Focus........who wouldn't want company's like that having input in the rubber on their car and not to forget with the Corsa and Trofeo R......Pirelli definitely know how to make good tyres.

 

As you have said tyre reviews and others opinions make it very hard to choose, one persons ability and view will be a completely different level to another/ the review in question might well have been funded by one of the tyre manufacturers taking part etc etc and like you (and I'm sure everyone else) once I've found something that works I tend to want to stick to it! Just to play devil's advocate you'd have to admit by your own logic that unless the p zero you'd tried in the past wasn't fitted to a Z and was in fact on something else then you might just be missing out on the best tyre in the world for your Z!!

[350Butcher]

1 hour ago, davey_83 said:

To be fair the youtube reviews of the MPS4 shown on a Focus ST and a e92 M3 with very similar comments towards overall performance, demonstrating a good tyre is a good tyre.

 

And manufacturers know their tyre will be fitted to everything out there from M3's to MPV's so it has to offer very similar traits and performance benefits across the board......within specs of course

[Rikz2004]

11 minutes ago, 350Butcher said:

 

100% the ones fitted to Ferrari/Mclaren are designed specifically for those cars but those manufacturers work alongside each other and all that data and tech regarding every aspect of the tyre from tread patterns/carcass construction etc all gets fed down the line and run out in the "lesser" p zero (in this case) to little me with a humble Focus........who wouldn't want company's like that having input in the rubber on their car and not to forget with the Corsa and Trofeo R......Pirelli definitely know how to make good tyres.

 

As you have said tyre reviews and others opinions make it very hard to choose, one persons ability and view will be a completely different level to another/ the review in question might well have been funded by one of the tyre manufacturers taking part etc etc and like you (and I'm sure everyone else) once I've found something that works I tend to want to stick to it! Just to play devil's advocate you'd have to admit by your own logic that unless the p zero you'd tried in the past wasn't fitted to a Z and was in fact on something else then you might just be missing out on the best tyre in the world for your Z!!

I don't disagree with any of your points in all honesty, and you're right I haven't tried that tyre on a z. It's more that the tyres were the 1 thing the OP changed which lead to a very different (possibly subjective) driving feel so changing back to michelin will most likely resolve the issue. There's also the other thing that mpss aren't really normal Road tyres and more like track tyres which probably doesn't help!

 

I could be missing out on the best tyres for my car as you said, but I'm happy with the mps4 and would rather go with what I know as would many others (also as you said!).

 

Will be looking out for updates on this thread anyway to see if there were any other issues with the car 

 

[AMT]

Late to the party here Lee and gonna skip the too'n and fro'n, it's crazy how it can make such a difference.  Similar when I had my Z in the early years of it and the first change.... changed one set, went round a corner (at speed tbh but hey... I had been used to the grip), thing felt like the back was not connected to the front...scary in the dry!  Not sure what cars are like this or if its a rear wheel drive thing but as stated ...lesson learned.  Get em on ebay or something (hope you got them sold) and get them all matching.  

[The G Man]

Erm, I’ve read some of this, but has anyone pointed out scrubbing in the tyres?  If so, apologies for mentioning.

 

For what it’s worth and, in my experience, P Zeros are sh1te, they came as standard on my current car, but lo and behold, the facelift model came with MPS4S, not sure if this was because of customer feedback or not.

 

However, I’m currently running P Zeros on my spare set of wheels, at +15 degC they are superb, in the dry.  At the hint of a moist or cold day, I adjust my driving accordingly 

[The G Man]

BTW, they’re only rated to 7 degC

[leebottrill]

Car booked in for Friday. I’ve decided if no problems are found with my suspension I’m going to push for a refund. If they don’t  oblige I’m going to contact the citizens advice bureau and get their take on it. My last resort is to contact my credit card company and see if they will process a refund for me. I believe I have bought a product that is not fit for purpose and a refund is justified in this case. Let’s see eh? 

[Ebized]

You chose to fit a new set of tyres on the rear, noting that a different make on the front still had some life in them.

 

Irrespective of the different make of tyre, your choice only served to undoutedly bring on the poor handling, that you imply was not there before that tyre change.

 

By all means have the suspension checked, but frankly if that does not improve things then you have to accept it was your choice to just change the rears and given the comments on this thread from Zed owners with many years of experience, sadly, you will be wasting your time IMHO suggesting you have been supplied new tyres to used in conjunction with worn tyres that "are unfit for purpose".  

 

Suggest you bite the bullet and either get yourself a new pair PZeros on the front, or more sensibly ebay the new rear tyres and get a full set of the MP4s all round. 

[ZMANALEX]

10 hours ago, leebottrill said:

Car booked in for Friday. I’ve decided if no problems are found with my suspension I’m going to push for a refund. If they don’t  oblige I’m going to contact the citizens advice bureau and get their take on it. My last resort is to contact my credit card company and see if they will process a refund for me. I believe I have bought a product that is not fit for purpose and a refund is justified in this case. Let’s see eh? 

Good luck with that: 

 

Save your energy and move on.

 

How do expect to get recompense for your own mistake?

[ilogikal1]

By posting a video on YouTube pretending to accept responsibility but actually just moaning about how everyone else is to blame. No doubt someone will “step up” and bail him out of his mistake...

 

[leebottrill]

The PZero is meant to be a premium tyre for sports cars. I’d expect it to be good, but it’s shite. Is that really my fault? If I went into the supermarket and bought a product that was of a poor quality I’d be refunded. How is this any different? 

 

I feel the tyre fitters should have advised me on this before fitting the tyres. Shouldn’t they know mixing brands is a bad idea?