Turtlewax hydrophobic sealant wax £5

[ilogikal1]

10 hours ago, davey_83 said:

How was wet coat applied wrong?

From the bottle itself; "Gyeon Q²M WetCoat is a spray-on, rinse-off, silica-based coating". Note that it's not a wipe on, wipe off product as it is treated in the test. Note that the test did not spray on. Note that the test did not rinse off. Two instructions, neither followed. Ergo, Wet Coat was applied incorrectly.

It was also further incorrectly applied by wiping it to dry paint in the top section despite "Use Q²M WetCoat only on a wet surface" (from the bottle, from their website, from every issuance of their application guides). Take special note of the word "only". Again, applied wrong.

 

Now before you try to argue this, again, just consider this; the manufacturer, who specificially designed the product to be applied in a specific way, states "simply spray-on and rinse-off", anyone capable of extrapolating from unstated information is capable of working out that applying in any other way is detrimental to it's performace. Otherwise they would have stated the alternative and equally effective method of application in the instructions.

 

Yet I know you well enough to know you won't "hold your hands up" to that evidence so let me just confirm that I have personally tested applying with a dry aplicator and buffing off instead of rinsing and I can confirm is detrimental. Just to clarify, the video applies with a dry applictor and rinses off which, to summarise is detrimental to it's longevity as tested. From personal, first hand experience. I've even demonstrated that on here previously.

 

I'm absolutly certain that you're still not going to "hold your hands up" though, so maybe some direct advice from Gyoen themselves who, just to remind you, designed and manufactur the product and who actually use the term "misuse" when discribing using the application method demonstrated in the video;

 

 

I don't doubt for a second that you won't accept that either, so let's also just run through how Wet Coat actually works; the water is a carrier, it helps to ensure that the product is easily spread over a large area. So far not an issue here because it's a small area and "misusing" the product with a dry applicator is spreading it across... well, bits of that top area at least, but likely all of the bottom area. However, here comes the issue; Wet Coat is activated by the impact when rinsing - if you remember, the test didn't rinse. At all. So no impact and thus no activation. I've test and demonstrated that on here too by the way. And it's mentioned above by someone else who has tested it. And it's tested all over DW and the internet in general. Even Gyeon say it on their webiste I linked above.

Quote

the reaction happens while you rinse it.

Thus it's is a proven fact that longevity is detrimentally affected when you don't rinse immediately with a pressure washer. Which the video test didn't.

 

Care to put your hands up yet? No, I thought not.

 

If you understand Wet Coat, how it's designed to work and how to actually use it, that video deomstrates nothing more than one procude that was applied more favourably outlasted another product, whilst that other product that was not applied correctly failed sooner.

[ilogikal1]

10 hours ago, Lewis Schwier said:

My personal opinion is that it’s a bit of a gimmick and is not good value for money if applied how the manufacturer says, you use a ridiculous amount each time and it does not last. Most the time these products will smear. I’ve had a good few cars in which have had these products used on them and you can see it in patches under the studio lights. 

On a more serious note, that sounds very much like over application - it's very easy over apply these spray on, rinse off products and/or not rinse throughly enough. Gyoen, for example, suggest ~80ml of product per (large) car, personally I think even that's a bit too much. I can get round a Z with 40-50ml with a bit of care and that'll give me 2-3 months of protection on it's own. HydrO2 and Wet Coat Essence are more tempremental though as you need to get the ratios right to get the longevity, and HydroCoat I always found to be better as a wipe on product rather than a spray on, rine off, so it very much does dpend on the product.

 

I get what you're saying about it being a gimmick though - I'm not sure gimmick is the right word for me but for lack of a better one I'll go with that. It's not a replacement for proper protection, it's just a quick and easy top-up product, similar to hydrophobic QD's (and I'm quite vocal about my thoughts on QD's, so I totally get where you're coming from) except quicker and easier to apply to protect the underlying wax/sealant/coating a little more. I'd much rather use Wet Coat than a QD though, personally.

[davey_83]

I will just say hands up or not, which they are (due to stalemate) I was going off a detailing world official forum testers that has used the product in many different applications and found that spreading the product not only used less but achieved best results as did most regular users of the product. Other than your word, still no demonstrated working example of spreading the product on a wet panel being detrimental to longevity. Not once have I said applying dry is a good idea and even the videos says it isn't however was answering a question towards this poor method. 

 

https://detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=410702

 

Ive neither purchased megs or gyeon wet spray sealants, so don't feel passionate towards either. Personally Im much more concerned towards users real world best usage of any given product, rather than the manufacturer label. If both methods happen to coincide, fab - if not that's life. How often do we hear of a manufacturer releasing a product, listening to user feedback and adjusting the product accordingly. This is common place and appears correct to do. Meaning it isn't a given that the label is always best practice. From the detailing world thread it would appear most uses that had posted preference is the wet spread, which makes sense given the product usage and coverage. 

 

Shall we all get back to topping up our lockdown tans? 

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by davey_83

[ilogikal1]

So just ignoring Gyeon’s own responses to that question then? Convenient. Stalemate indeed.......

[davey_83]

In the way that user would prefer to use the product, wet spread due to the reasons mentioned by myself, Lewis and in the detailing world thread - meguiars hybrid spray sealant won that test. Granted it isn't the way that the manufacturer advises to use it. 

[ilogikal1]

Or, to put it into one word; incorrectly.

 

So you agree that all the video shows is when Wet Coat is applied incorrectly it performs less favourably than a product that is applied correctly? Rhetorical question.

Edited May 25, 2020 by ilogikal1
Edited to make English sentences.

[Lewis Schwier]

4 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

On a more serious note, that sounds very much like over application - it's very easy over apply these spray on, rinse off products and/or not rinse throughly enough. Gyoen, for example, suggest ~80ml of product per (large) car, personally I think even that's a bit too much. I can get round a Z with 40-50ml with a bit of care and that'll give me 2-3 months of protection on it's own. HydrO2 and Wet Coat Essence are more tempremental though as you need to get the ratios right to get the longevity, and HydroCoat I always found to be better as a wipe on product rather than a spray on, rine off, so it very much does dpend on the product.

 

I get what you're saying about it being a gimmick though - I'm not sure gimmick is the right word for me but for lack of a better one I'll go with that. It's not a replacement for proper protection, it's just a quick and easy top-up product, similar to hydrophobic QD's (and I'm quite vocal about my thoughts on QD's, so I totally get where you're coming from) except quicker and easier to apply to protect the underlying wax/sealant/coating a little more. I'd much rather use Wet Coat than a QD though, personally.

Most definitely would be over application or using it on a hot/sunny day. Even when used the correct amount compared to any other products that provide some sort of protection and or hydrophobicity you are using a lot for how long it lasts.

[Lewis Schwier]

In terms of the video it is very strange, doing a test but not using correctly or how the manufacturers explain how to use - however you want to put it lol 

 

Don’t quite get what he was trying to achieve, maybe to see if you could use the product in a different way?

[ilogikal1]

1 hour ago, Lewis Schwier said:

Most definitely would be over application or using it on a hot/sunny day. Even when used the correct amount compared to any other products that provide some sort of protection and or hydrophobicity you are using a lot for how long it lasts.

To be fair, that could apply to the SiO2 market in general though. Even an entry level coating will set you back £35 for 30ml giving 10-12 month's protection. That's ~517ml (or 2.19 pots) of Poorboys Natty's Blue wax (as a random, cheap LSP alternative for example's sake) which would last you well over a year (probably 2+) even if you reapplied every every single week. The price of coatings only goes up from there too. I appreciate it's not a direct comparison, but you see my point?

 

I do get what you're saying, but essentially you're paying for convenience and ease of application as much as the durability, and there aren't many products that add any real protection that are easier than spray on rinse off coatings (except Bathe+, which ironically would have been a much better product for the video - also ironically the video has demonstrated a much less efficient means of application). If you put a price on the time saved applying against the cheaper product (wax, to stick with the example) you're offsetting a lot of that cost. It depends on how much you value your own time of course, but there is always a mark up on convenience.

Whether it's worth it or not is a whole other can of worms!

[Lewis Schwier]

6 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said:

To be fair, that could apply to the SiO2 market in general though. Even an entry level coating will set you back £35 for 30ml giving 10-12 month's protection. That's ~517ml (or 2.19 pots) of Poorboys Natty's Blue wax (as a random, cheap LSP alternative for example's sake) which would last you well over a year (probably 2+) even if you reapplied every every single week. The price of coatings only goes up from there too. I appreciate it's not a direct comparison, but you see my point?

 

I do get what you're saying, but essentially you're paying for convenience and ease of application as much as the durability, and there aren't many products that add any real protection that are easier than spray on rinse off coatings (except Bathe+, which ironically would have been a much better product for the video - also ironically the video has demonstrated a much less efficient means of application). If you put a price on the time saved applying against the cheaper product (wax, to stick with the example) you're offsetting a lot of that cost. It depends on how much you value your own time of course, but there is always a mark up on convenience.

Whether it's worth it or not is a whole other can of worms!

Yeah I see what your saying, exactly what I was thinking of when I thought of waxes and sealants and how long they last. 

 

Yeah that is why the video is so pointless in a sense. Both brands have wipe on wipe off products as well as spray on rinse off for a reason lol. 

Yup spot on, couldn’t of said it any better. Why they have proved to been so popular with people!