American Cars...

[hmale4yu]

Or more specifically modern day Corvettes and Camaros

 

I think a few members already know I have always had a soft spot for Corvettes in particular. I might  have just had one of those don't meet your heroes moments...

 

Recently I was able to visit a dealership where I got to view a bunch of new and slightly used Camaros and Vettes. What struck me as I examined the cars close up is that there something about them that is q hard to sum up in one word but the body panels look and feel like they have been constructed from q cheap albeit lightweight material. Its not just a case of the use of plastic but its the type of plastic that used for bumpers , vents and stylistic accents. In fact the irony with the C7 Corvette, which has less of a classic look compared to the C4/C5/C6, has these aforementioned plastic accents which actually just highlight the fact that "hey look at me I'm the part of the body panel that's made out of cheap black gloss plastic!". The Nismo I own has a lightweight panel construction that feels less solid than a TT esp noticeable when I wash the car but it doesn't have that corner cutting, cheap tactile sensation. The Corvette has certain areas on the front bumper and back that literally sqeak when pressed 

 

But then what makes it worse is that the paint looks really thin. Even on new models. I've researched that its the choice of material they go with for body panels that mean that the paint curing process is more tricky and time consuming. The result is that the paint just doesn't look as thick as Audi, Porsche, Lexus and BMW paint. Its almost a thin looking paint. If they had a Nardo Grey or a Miami Blue paint finish then I think the first point would be saveable but the paint finish is just not there. Of the four colours Ive seen the new C7 only one that "popped" visually was a torch red one though this probably doesn't count as it was brand new , sitting in the showroom. 

 

The above observations only become apparent when you look at the cars close up. In photos and from a distance they look great and on par with Japanese and European rivals. The issue I have is this: American cars over here are not cheap rides to go out and buy and run. Even if you ignore the interior, the exterior construction still needs to be up to standard at that price . I'll be honest the interior of the new C7 is only slightly better then the Mk2 370z

 

It led me to conclude that my current 370z Nismo Mk2, which is probably the pinnacle of the 370z,  might be the best bang for your buck sports cars on the market when everything is taken into consideration including the build quality and finish. Given that Zs are made in the same factory as the GTR and certain Infinitis in Tochigi, Japan I just have a more confident gut feeling that there is more care and attention , less corner cutting involved in the production  compared to other more expensive cars Corvette, Mustang, Alfa 4c, Lotus... 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by hmale4yu

[Davectr]

I’ve got to admit I’ve always thought the same. I love the look of a lot of American cars, but then you see the interior - usually looks awful, and definitely very poor quality!

[ATTAK Z]

This is true. Most Yanks are blue collar finish, even Cadillacs, always have been. The Germans up'd the ante years ago and the only ones to try to emulate were the Japs. This is leaving out Bentley, Rolls Royce etc. of course.

[coldel]

I think its pretty common knowledge that these cars are effectively made to be driven then thrown away (much like American culture in general) which is why anything comparable performance wise is so much cheaper than the Euro/Japanese counterparts. They pay less, but more people get into V8 legends over there, which is no bad thing.

 

Not sure about Nismo 370z being best bang for buck, depends whether you are looking at new or used, depends if you are after straight line grunt or handling and I think its more of a GT car than a Sports car.  

[DoogyRev]

it's taken a bit of time but the 'American's have certainly upped their game when it comes to GT's/Sports Cars. The latest round of Mustangs & Camero's are actually pretty good. I like them. 

 

The Camero's if you get a decent spec are really nice places to sit. This one was lovely to sit in and for $90K CAD . .  which is £50k . . . more bang for your buck than you would get in most cases (this was the LT1 Race Spec LT1 with every option)  If I purchased a Nismo 370  I think it would end up being over $60KCAD . . the same money would get a Camero or a Mustang that far surpasses options/kit that you would get in the Nismo. I know where my money would go   

 

 

 

The C7 in my opinion is a updated C6 . . which is an updated C5  . .etc, so they carry some remanence from the previous versions which are known for the cheap build and quality feel to them,  the new C8 will be a different matter, I think this will up the game for the Vette's. I guess we will find out on July 18th 

 

Of course when your looking at something that 400BHP+ and only $100K there will be a quality difference to the Germans or the Italians of equal output but they are all 2-3 time the price (well they are here)

[hmale4yu]

They have great engines and the sound is a huge selling point. Even if the engines are fairly reliable its the lack of finish to the bodypanels when inspected close up that's putting me off. If the C7 would drop to £30-35k then I'd be tempted but above £45k then one is drawn more to its flaws. The paint just doesn't seem to age well on the type of material they use for the bodypanels. They don't have that thick paint look to them nor colour vividness - its like looking at flimsy cardboard packaging and then a thick cardboard; you don't even have to feel the two to tell which one is cheaper/less solid. 

 

The higher spec Corvettes/Camaros have a very aftermarket look to them with the body kit modifications - like the Nismo Mk1 . I know some like that but for me I prefer an OEM type look like the Mk2 Nismo

[hmale4yu]

7 hours ago, coldel said:

I think its pretty common knowledge that these cars are effectively made to be driven then thrown away (much like American culture in general) which is why anything comparable performance wise is so much cheaper than the Euro/Japanese counterparts. They pay less, but more people get into V8 legends over there, which is no bad thing.

 

Not sure about Nismo 370z being best bang for buck, depends whether you are looking at new or used, depends if you are after straight line grunt or handling and I think its more of a GT car than a Sports car.  

My rough definition for this would be a balance of the following:

 

Performance

Price

Exclusivity/Rarity

Potential Reliability 

Build finish incl interior

Looks/Road Presence

 

[Ekona]

All of which puts the Cayman above pretty much anything  

[coldel]

I was going to say the Porsches step into this zone...and I don't really like them, but they are a step on in terms of that list from what I have experienced. Even sitting in an old 986 Boxster S when on a road trip last year it was tight, fast, responsive, and doused in leather a much nicer place than a 370z I begrudgingly admit. 

 

And I would say my VX220 turbo wins on 5 out of that list of 6 vs a zed, you can probably guess what the missing 6th one is, and it misses by a country mile 

Edited April 13, 2019 by coldel

[hmale4yu]

1 hour ago, coldel said:

I was going to say the Porsches step into this zone...and I don't really like them, but they are a step on in terms of that list from what I have experienced. Even sitting in an old 986 Boxster S when on a road trip last year it was tight, fast, responsive, and doused in leather a much nicer place than a 370z I begrudgingly admit. 

 

And I would say my VX220 turbo wins on 5 out of that list of 6 vs a zed, you can probably guess what the missing 6th one is, and it misses by a country mile 

Yea a low mileage VX was something I thought of actually of.  If de-prioritising exclusivity I agree with the earlier comment that the Boxter/Cayman start to come into the fray esp in one of the more flashy colours/wheel combinations 

[hmale4yu]

21 hours ago, DoogyRev said:

it's taken a bit of time but the 'American's have certainly upped their game when it comes to GT's/Sports Cars. The latest round of Mustangs & Camero's are actually pretty good. I like them. 

 

The Camero's if you get a decent spec are really nice places to sit. This one was lovely to sit in and for $90K CAD . .  which is £50k . . . more bang for your buck than you would get in most cases (this was the LT1 Race Spec LT1 with every option)  If I purchased a Nismo 370  I think it would end up being over $60KCAD . . the same money would get a Camero or a Mustang that far surpasses options/kit that you would get in the Nismo. I know where my money would go   

 

 

 

The C7 in my opinion is a updated C6 . . which is an updated C5  . .etc, so they carry some remanence from the previous versions which are known for the cheap build and quality feel to them,  the new C8 will be a different matter, I think this will up the game for the Vette's. I guess we will find out on July 18th 

 

Of course when your looking at something that 400BHP+ and only $100K there will be a quality difference to the Germans or the Italians of equal output but they are all 2-3 time the price (well they are here)

Not hating but in the showroom they look great and from a distance. If I go up to that car and inspect the paint close up (esp outside) and start pressing the panels, vents, bumpers etc it would become apparent that its simply not as "solid" as even a Focus RS or AMG A45 w/Aero Pack for instance (both of which come with a v good paint job btw)

[Ekona]

Neither of which come with a dirty great V8.

[StevoD]

2 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Neither of which come with a dirty great V8.

Or could lap as fast as a zl1

[The G Man]

.....And are not American 

[docwra]

On 13/04/2019 at 17:14, Ekona said:

All of which puts the Cayman above pretty much anything  

Exactly what I was going to say, you can probably chuck an M2 and maybe a GT86 in there as well.

If the quality of paint or whether you can press a panel in is the most important aspect of your sportscar then youre probably not doing it right

[Ekona]

I nearly said the GT86 as well, it’s definitely up there in terms of everything but does need a couple of mods over standard I feel. Not powerwise, either. 

[coldel]

Superstu’s BRZ was brilliant on the Euro road trip last year took in the mountains with ease

[hmale4yu]

I agree the GT86 would prob be the best all rounder when you take into account exclusivity, reliability . has enough road presence. Honourable mentioned also to the Abarth 124 spider

Edited April 15, 2019 by hmale4yu

[docwra]

Abarth 124 is just a more expensive MX5 though, by OPs list its a better sportscar as its cheaper

[ilogikal1]

On 14/04/2019 at 23:34, The G Man said:

.....And are not American 

Sorry, the FORD Focus isn't American?!?

[The G Man]

1 hour ago, ilogikal1 said:

Sorry, the FORD Focus isn't American?!?

No, it was produced in America eventually.  No need to apologise.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus

[ilogikal1]

2 hours ago, The G Man said:

No, it was produced in America eventually.  No need to apologise.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Focus

So an American company released a car in America (eventually or otherwise) and you deem it to be not American.

 

Okay. 

[The G Man]

4 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said:

So an American company released a car in America (eventually or otherwise) and you deem it to be not American.

 

Okay. 

Yes, well done, you got there.

[Ekona]

So we’re agreed it’s American? Good. 

[The G Man]

Just now, Ekona said:

So we’re agreed it’s American? Good. 

No, I’ve changed my mind, it’s Brazilian

 

The Ford Focus (first generation) is a compact car that was manufactured by Ford in Europe from 1998-2004 and by Ford in North America from 1999-2007. Ford began sales of the Focus to Europe in July 1998 and in North America during 1999 for the 2000 model year. Manufacturing in Argentina continued until 2008, and it was still on sale in Brazil until 2009.