ilogikal1 Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, gangzoom said: 100% relevant. The $35K 220 miles EPA range Model 3 is the bar set very very high for every other EV on the market. You cannot seriously tell me you some one looking at a small EV will be happy to pay nearly £40K for this Honda EV with half the range of a £30K Model 3?? Competition is great for us consumers, the more EVs the come the quicker prices will fall. The history of Tesla’s sales over the past decade is completely irrelevant to the projection of Tesla outselling all other cars this year (or 6 months) which was the discussion you were responding to when you spouted that absolutely ridiculous monologue. I know you have verbal diarrhea, never more so than when anyone mentions Tesla, but seriously at least try to maintain a little perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1en Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 1 hour ago, gangzoom said: Have you seen what Nissan Leaf prices are doing at present??!! Cant say I pay much attention, just when i was searching for a cheap daily that had to be less than 5 year old for work, (and cheap) i googled fastest depreciating cars and the leaf was on every list (along with various Fiats and the pug 308/508) I got a 15 plate 308 for under 6k with 70k miles (20k list price new) A quick autotrader search shows you can get 15 plate leafs (with much much lower milage) for under 10k and i think they had a 25k list price new, still a big hit in the wallet for anyone im sure you will agree. My concern is that EV cars will replicate the mobile phone recent era. So honda/ford/vw whoever launch a 100 mile range car then 2/3 years later update it with a 200 mile version with better tech and options for not much more (due to battery tech and scale of production) which sees the previous generation prices plummit and no one wants them. Then another 2 years down line and its now a 400 mile range and self driving meaning the previous gen 2 model suffers the same fate and so on until it gets to a point like now with iphones whereas the “new” model released is only marginally better than the last and there is not as much demand or people wont pay the extra so keeping used prices high. It then finds a level cycle like we have had with combustion cars for so long until the next phase comes along, like flying cars, and the process starts again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, ilogikal1 said: The history of Tesla’s sales over the past decade is completely irrelevant to the projection of Tesla outselling all other cars this year (or 6 months) which was the discussion you were responding to when you spouted that absolutely ridiculous monologue. I know you have verbal diarrhea, never more so than when anyone mentions Tesla, but seriously at least try to maintain a little perspective. So your saying you would pay £40k for this Honda EV with 120 miles of range even though for the same price your be able to get a AWD Long Range Model 3 that does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and an EPA rated range of 310 miles?? Great, I look forward to your review of the Honda :). Edited March 10, 2019 by gangzoom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, G1en@waxandshine said: until it gets to a point like now with iphones whereas the “new” model released is only marginally better than the last and there is not as much demand or people wont pay the extra so keeping used prices high. If you ignore this the rubbish range of this Honda EV other EVs are already at this point. Tesla have stopped increasing the size of the battery packs, VAG have now announced half a dozen products all using a battery pack at around 90kWh. Their pricing is all nearly identical, Jaguar/Tesla/Audi/Merc all will sell you a 'premium' EV for £60-80k. The Taycan is due out later this year, I suspect pricing will be around £80k, again is a 120 mile range Honda worth nearly 50% of the latest/newest Porsche?? The Honda EV looks great, but they are having a laugh at anything close to £40k pricing, with the specs it's a £20-25k car. Oh and don't touch a sub £10k 2015 Leaf, they are sold with a lifetime rental agreement on the battery. Effectively you dont own the battery but have to pay Nissan about £70/month forever. The cheapest battery owned Leaf is about £12k, so about 50% deprecation at 4 years, which is actually pretty good for a mass produced Nissan hatchback. Edited March 10, 2019 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, ilogikal1 said: Its not going to be £40,000.... Based on the way it looks its already been a hit with the online car community. It wont be more expensive than the top spec leaf which cost £36,000 as its the first release by Honda. It will most likely be £26,000 to £32,000. Who would buy this over tesla model 3. Younger people that arent interested in saloon looking family car. People that want something that looks cool and stands out from the common stuff on the road. Something different and unconventional. There are also rumours of the coupe version which is also a concept and has been put on hold to see how this does when released. Although highly unlikely to release this year. The chief designer wants it to be released this year. Take a city like London 30 miles across you could easily do a return trip to the south east on one charge. Honda have said its a city car not an intercity grand tourer Edited March 10, 2019 by GranTurismoEra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1en Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I get that the premium brands will have something cutting edge but at 80k its out of reach for 90% (conservative estimate) of the population and if your saying that will then lose half its value in a few years (like lots of other cars i agree) then it makes it even less of a proposition. Yes they can do 0-60 in 5 seconds but most weigh 2 tons plus so will be binned into a hedge at the first corner when the over exuberant owner with little skill (again 90%) shows it off on a country lane. And if your saying we are about as good as we can get battery wise and 300 miles wont be improved upon much then its still half of most business deisels as i bet most company car drivers will charge in work time and at work cost rather than at home resulting in more initial cost for the company and lost work time. I have nothing against EVs as a whole and one day in the not too distant future i will have one but your crusade @gangzoom to force them onto everyone winds some people up. Just take the blinkers off your electric high horse and try to see things from the jockeys point of view. You know, the small insignificant guy that rides a real horse with all the pros and cons it brings. Lots of us would just rather drive something we can feel* and hear* rather than an iphone with wheels. To see the opposite point I DO accept that many like to have the latest iphone and that ultimately it looks like the EV will prevail and succeed. What the car makers need to do is give the masses a great choice and value and let them decide as one thing we know from the past and Brexit, people hate being told what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 6 hours ago, gangzoom said: So your saying you would pay £40k for this Honda EV with 120 miles of range even though for the same price your be able to get a AWD Long Range Model 3 that does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and an EPA rated range of 310 miles?? Great, I look forward to your review of the Honda :). Yet again, what the hell has that got to do with Tesla being the highest selling car this year?!? Youre just trolling now, and not particularly well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 1 hour ago, ilogikal1 said: Youre just trolling Fixed that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRF4N Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 04/03/2019 at 23:21, Ekona said: *pfffftttttsssshhhppptttt* Coffee, meet keyboard They can't even ship the bloody things to meet demand, so how can it remotely be close to the best selling car in the US this year?! Remind me of this post come Jan 1st 2020, and if it did happen I'll send you a box of Curly Wurlys. https://www.motor1.com/news/315463/tesla-model-3-top-seller-europe/ Apparently outselling everything else in the segment so far. When’s the uk release? (I’m sure GZ will inform us ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Where are the numbers then? I’m not saying they’re wrong and the Tesla didn’t outsell them (and if I’m wrong then I’m wrong), but where’s the source data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBorehamUK Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 10/03/2019 at 09:37, ilogikal1 said: Youre just trolling On 10/03/2019 at 11:21, Jetpilot said: Fixed that You almost fixed it... *You're Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRF4N Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 It says it further down in the article. 3 thousand something model 3s, no mention of the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 The carsalesbase website which is reasonably reliable hasnt udpated February yet but shows BMW 3 series selling 6872 cars in January so it must have seen a big chunk eaten out of that with people moving to Tesla? Audi A/S/RS 4 sold 7608 cars in January too, so again be interesting to see what happened in Feb. Last two years has shown historically car sales for this sector dip around 10% Jan > Feb then shoot back up in March. But for the BMW3 and Audi4 to have dropped by over 50% to below the claimed 3657 Teslas sold. I had a quick look at the source of the info and its coming from a website called JATO, the article above just lifts a bit of the full blog post on JATO but in there it claims the segment the Series 3 operates in sold 11800 cars in total in February which just seems really odd given there were nearly 15000 BMW 3 series & A4s sold the month before before you roll in all the other manufacturers like VW, Alfa, Mercedes, Skoda etc. Notably I cannot find anywhere on the JATO site the actual figures of what cars were included in the 11800 sales group they are referring to that the Series 3 topped. I think its more of a case of waiting till some public info comes along that we can properly look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRF4N Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I love the way you analyse stuff Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Stats and Economics degree mate...its drilled into you The devil is in the detail! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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