Advice on where I stand after long saga

[Guest]

Hello all, looking for your thoughts on where I stand with something; is there any element of me being awkward or in the wrong?  This might be long so bear with me.  I'm trying to be as neutral as possible in my telling, if you have any questions or criticisms please let me know...

 

So at the end of August my car went in to my mechanics for gearbox, clutch, flywheel change with parts that I sourced.  A little back story, my mechanic has previously allowed me to use his workshop free of charge to perform my own work where it is something that I am able to do (this becomes relevant later).  On this occasion I had things that I could do myself, but I was leaving the gearbox, clutch, flywheel to the professionals.  My mechanic had indicated that whatever software it is that tells mechanics how many hours to charge for a job said 6 hours.  He said instead of doing that at garage rates (£432 I think), he recommended I pay his other mechanic direct at a reduced rate.  Foolishly I paid when the job was almost and it just needed bleeding.  The mechanic doing most of the work attempted to charge me way too little, and by the hour, so I agreed a more sensible price (I believed him to be undervaluing himself).

 

Things progressed ok, and after a day in the shop everything was together and it just needed the clutch bleeding...

 

Nothing after this point goes well.  They attempt to pressure bleed the system, suggest attempting to vacuum bleed it.  It is only when I look up clutch bleeding for the 350Z that it becomes apparent that this isn't possible.  I was annoyed that they didn't know this and hadn't researched, so I found what I think is the Nissan recommended procedure and provided it to them.  I attempted to assist by being on pedal duty but evidently was doing something wrong, although some pedal pressure was there after a fair bit of pumping, it wasn't immediate.  I go back the next day to assist again with pedal duties but no further joy.  Over the course of the next 2+ months the mechanic/s attempt several things to get it working (pedal down overnight as per forums trick, car up on its side), and become adamant that it's a problem with the parts, despite trusted individuals in the 350 community indicating that it sounded like there was just air in the system.  They told me to replace the master cylinder for which I got them the part while I was on holiday in Korea for my friends wedding.  This seemed to help a little but I maintain that it was probably because the system was bled slightly better than previously given that there had been nothing wrong with my previous master cylinder when I brought my car in.

 

So it gets to the stage that parts supplier says it's probably the mechanics, and the mechanics say it is probably the parts, with me inbetween.  So the clutch comes out to go back to the distributor for testing at a cost for delivery.  No fault found.  Parts get shipped back out to a well known garage instead who were most helpful.

 

I arrange to have the car moved, first transport falls through with the 'company' disappearing with the money I paid.  2nd time lucky on transport and get the vehicle moved 100 miles.  Gearbox is not wrapped to protect against elements as was requested, and they forget to put my W brace in the vehicle.

 

The new garage get to work on it and complete the install in less than a day for £335.  They have to replace the already brand new gearbox oil just in case as the box has been exposed to the elements, they said that a block in the clutch system that the old garage had removed and was sat in my boot was actually a fluid damper and that the bypass pipe they had put in had damaged the connectors.  They managed to clean up the connectors and re-fit this block at a cost.  During the cars stay at the old place the battery had died, been charged and fully depleted several times (again, was fine when I took it in).  So the battery was dead and needed replacing at a cost.  The dead battery also caused the ECU to lose some settings which meant that it was idling high at 1800RPM.  The ECU had to be pulled to fix this at a cost, and with the permanent loss of the use of my factory immobiliser, which will be an added cost to get an aftermarket one and have it fitted.

 

I finally got my car back on 18.12.18.

 

So today I approach the mechanics in a polite and level headed way to indicate that in addition to not having had my car for over 3 months I was severely out of pocket (£1700) for something that should have cost £350 to £450, and that those costs were as a result of them not being able to complete the work that I paid for.

 

One said he shouldn't have to pay anything because he had lost ramp time and stored my car (only because they had not been able to complete the work so my car couldn't go anywhere), and that he let me use his workshop for free (which was is true and had been done on an occasion prior so wasn't specifically linked to this, and no obligation or hedge against future issues was ever indicated), and the other mostly declined to comment, which to me sounds as though he doesn't want to incriminate himself, but said that he had spent over 30 hours on this in his personal time which at garage rates would have been over £2000 (to which my answer was that the job was indicated at 6 hours so garage rates would be £432, and he was due to come in at less than that which he did.   It probably doesn't match the many hours I couldn't attend various activities, or hours I have spent walking places).  He also claimed that they went by the procedure that I provided them (the Nissan procedure I believe) but I as the customer should never have had to provide this information to them at all, they should know or have researched, I'm the one that doesn't know how to do this hence paying him.

 

My limited understanding of the way that garages charge for jobs like that is that they charge the fixed hours specified by the manufacturer unless there is something outside the scope of the job.  If they finish it sooner they are getting paid more for their time, if it takes longer they are getting paid less for their time.  Excuse any ignorance on my part here.

 

Am I being unreasonable in requesting to negotiate covering some of the costs I have incurred as a result of their inability to complete the task I paid them to do?

 

In my opinion they have taken on work without looking into the specifics of the vehicle, to the point where I have had to google things to see if they are doing it right and having to correct them.  If somebody had paid me for something and I couldn't complete the work I would at least refund them their money, it is the honourable thing to do.

 

Your thoughts and input are appreciated, am wondering if I'm being a slightly entitled customer or whether I am rightfully aggrieved?  Does anybody have an alternate view of the above?

[Ekona]

In short, walk away and consider it a lesson learned. 

 

In long...

 

First off, although this will now sound like a huge criticism of you it’s really not meant to be. Nothing you’ve done sounds particularly wrong, and thousands of people do the same thing all the time and everything is dandy. Hell I’ve done the same as you in the past, so I’m not judging your actions at all. However, you’ve now sadly discovered the main issues with having a friendly garage and also with supplying parts yourself. 

 

From a clinical POV, the garage is right. You supplied the parts (granted they were fine), you supplied the instructions, you negotiated a rate direct with their employee, you lost out on transport costs for the first trip etc. Yes they bodged the install a bit by the sounds of it, but ultimately who was your contract with? Sounds to me like it was with the employee, so your claim is against him personally, but then it depends on how you paid (cash?) and if you got a receipt. Again, it’s just bad luck here. 

 

Every one one is a mate until things go wrong, and then suddenly they look out for themselves. The garage has done you favours in the past to keep you sweet as a customer, but now things have gone wrong and they are at risk of losing money they’re going back to black and white terms. Do I think it’s lousy practice? Sure. Do I see where they’re coming from? Yes. 

 

Ultimately if you took this to court then the waters are muddy enough that I wouldn’t be comfortable saying you’d have a good chance, or any chance. It’s time to be more practical, and going forward be very careful about supplying parts, make sure you have everything in writing about the work being done and the costs, and accept that whilst jobs may now cost you more at least you’ll have protection when things go wrong. Like I said, we’ve all been there and I feel for you, but whilst there’s no harm in asking for money back from your garage I strongly suspect that ship has sailed and they’re done with you, as you should be with them. 

[Guest]

Hi Ekona, thanks for the response, your post doesn't sound critical, just your honest feedback which is appreciated. I don't like this kind of situation, particularly as they have always seemed like nice people until now. Comments and answers to some of your questions below. 

 

Regarding supplying parts, I can see where you're coming from, although given that most garages around here would struggle to provide the parts I needed or wanted I'm not sure whether I had another option, particularly for the gearbox which was off of a low mileage HR (can't afford £6k for a new gearbox, the car isn't worth much more than that). Whilst being in the middle of the 2 parties with 2 different opinions was frustrating, my main problem is that the work was taken on without them knowing what they were doing and I'm suffering for it.

 

Regarding the instructions, yes I did provide them as they were trying to pressure bleed the vehicle at the time. I gave them the procedure from the Nissan service manual (double checked this). Honest question, would I have been better off letting them struggle and keep doing things that couldn't possibly have worked rather than providing the Nissan instructions? I'm not sure I understand why giving the official procedure would be a bad thing.

 

Regarding payment, bank transfer, so although there's no receipt there's a record of the transaction.  As for who the contract was with, the payment was to the affiliated mechanic, but the recommendation to do so was from the garage, and the garage owner/mechanic was also involved in trying to get things working, including attempts to pressure bleed it. I was only there for maybe 2 days of the 3 month period so I can't say what other involvement he had, but it wasn't left entirely to his other mechanic.

[Sargara]

Its a complex one given the scenario the work was being done under.

 

By the sounds of it you've had a good ride in terms of savings you've achieved from this friendly garage on this (if it went to plan) and past jobs and those savings come at a cost by not doing things by the book and has the potential for situations like this to arise. Depending on how you react will dictate how your friendly garage will treat you going forwards, if you value them then take it on the chin and avoid using this individual in future otherwise sour things by trying to pursue the mechanic in small claims court or similar (which will be hard given the lack of paper trial).

[Guest]

Hi Sargara, thanks for the feedback, it's good to hear the thoughts of people with no stake in the situation to get a more nuanced view. 

 

The savings aren't what you'd imagine, I could have rented the use of a ramp and tools for £90 per day, so realistically across the couple of times I've done my own things I've saved £180.

 

As far as the garage goes I can't see them being friendly again, things are probably pretty sour already given that I have requested assistance with my costs, it was done politely and in a level headed way but their responses were telling, they either don't see any of this as their fault (which is rubbish, if the work had been completed I wouldn't have had £1300 in additional costs), they have given excuses as to why they shouldn't have to pay anything, or they don't want to admit any kind of failing despite knowing that my car was there for 3 months because ultimately they were defeated by not being able to bleed a clutch properly.

 

In all honesty I wouldn't want to take anything there again as it would be tacit approval of their behaviour.  I no longer trust that their recommendations are in my best interests, I no longer trust their ability relating to 350s, I no longer trust the integrity of their work, and I no longer have faith or trust in them as honourable individuals capable of looking after my interests. 

[davey_83]

Sorry to hear of your drama's. Earlier this year I had an independent garage fit a new slave cylinder, braided line and high temp fluid. All new parts I had supplied and after a longer than normal period the clutch pedal was at the point whereby I could drive home. That evening I went to go fill the tank (some 6 hours after the install) ready for a road trip the next day with several lads, that I had arranged. Started up the engine and couldn't get any gears, great!!

 

Ended up having to leave the car on the driver and hop in with the brother in law. Had been planning the trip for weeks and weeks so wasn't best pleased. Once back I made the decision to repair the vehicle myself. My little brother was gutted also as it was a garage that he would normally use with no issues and the labour costs was at mates rates. My brother offered to go back and have a word, but I thought leave it. The mechanic is trusted and tried his best at the time to carry out the install, but ultimately I tried to get a cheap job done and you therefore run the risk of errors with little come back. Lesson learnt, sometimes buy cheap pay twice or more.

 

On reflection I think what happen was for a reason, the conditions for Mid/North Wales in April were shocking, I would have been leading the convoy as I often do and very possibly could have crashed not allowing for the conditions and seriously injured myself and/or others.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by davey_83

[Ekona]

I’d have given them the official instructions as well, so no blame there on your part. It’s their incompetency that’s caused the issues, but that’s small comfort now. 

 

If you paid the mechanic direct then that’s who you would be taking to court tbh, and in this case it’s unlikely to get you anything other than ballache. It’s a sh*tty situation and there by the grace of god etc, but I really would recommend moving on and hope that this thread can help others in the future. 

[StevoD]

8 hours ago, Ekona said:

Every one one is a mate until things go wrong, and then suddenly they look out for themselves.

2

 

DTA Mofos,

 

NA, unfortunately, this is true, most people In the commercial car game I have dealt with have been interested as long as the benefit is tilted their way, As soon as it needs to go the other way they don't want to help at all.

 

There is no loyalty in business 

[Kieran O'Quick]

This notion that its all mercenary in business isn't homogeneous. There are still lots of good people out there. From what you say it looks like your guys are a going nasty. 

If I took on a job and couldn't fulfill it I'd return the money. And garages I've dealt with have had similar outlooks.  

If you've paid for a job that wasn't done then Small Claims seems obvious if you've got the spare time to pursue it. The court rules on balance of probabilities (not hypotheticals) so usually the good guy wins. 

You might just win a court order that you never get to enforce but its cheap enough and scratches an itch that could bug you forever.

[Guest]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I'm not really sure how to proceed, I'm not a confrontational person and I don't like the idea of someone else being out of pocket because of me, but currently I am the one that has the burden through little fault of my own.

 

It sounds as though it won't necessarily be cut and dry, and even if it is I may never see the money so perhaps I am better off letting it go and getting my head down to pay off the accumulated debt.

[davey_83]

Ideally needed to have msg the forum during the VOR. After the event and with no written agreement of what was expected, timeframe and for exactly how much you won't get anywhere and if you did it's purely goodwill to which they've already said they won't contribute. Move on would be mine and others advise as shown above.