dodgy car sale

[Andre D]

Hi guys hope i can get some advice, i recently [ 23rd november] bought a 350z reg number ov56ftk from a dealer near mansfield[ i travelled from portsmouth] we agreed that the car would have a 12 months mot and after driving the car decided to buy. I used my credit card to pay, the dealer took the car and had mot done which he said failed on front tyre which was replaced, he said it passed and would post new certificate, after 2 weeks i didnt get the cert so i checked the government website to discover it had failed on tyre AND emissions and exhaust too loud. here is report.  

 

• Exhaust noise is clearly in excess of that emitted by a similar vehicle fitted with a standard silencer in average condition (8.1.1 (a))
• Offside Rear Registration plate lamp inoperative in the case of a single lamp or all lamps (4.7.1 (b) (ii))
• Exhaust carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle exceeds default limits (8.2.1.2 (b))

so i have contacted dealer who is trying to say the mot was done and passed. Anyway i have raised a dispute with the cc company and i have evidence that the car would be supplied with new mot, anyone know what my chances are regarding the cc company sorting this if the dealer wont, oh and its supposed to be an AA approved dealership. any idea of a cost for a new i assume complete exhaust, i need to get it up on ramps but would assume cats are removed. thanks 

[Andre D]

hi guys sorry if this is duplicate thread, So i bought my new z on 23rd november from a dealer near mansfield AA approved etc. i paid on my credit card the reg number is ov56ftk the car was supposed to come with new 12 month mot which the dealer said would post to me, he said it failed on tyre, ok no probs he changed tyre and said its mot,d off you go, 2 weeks later no mot cert. so i looked on gov website and it faile on tyre and this:

 

• Exhaust noise is clearly in excess of that emitted by a similar vehicle fitted with a standard silencer in average condition (8.1.1 (a))
• Offside Rear Registration plate lamp inoperative in the case of a single lamp or all lamps (4.7.1 (b) (ii))
• Exhaust carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle exceeds default limits (8.2.1.2 (b))

so i dont have 12 months mot at all and dealer is giving me the run around, i have raised a dispute with my cc company. what do you think my legal standing is regarding this. yes i have evidence of promised mot, also how much do you think assuming the cats have been removed to put it right. any advice most welcome cheers

[Stutopia]

I wouldn’t expect the CC company to cover the cost of the MOT, they’ll only help you out if you reject the car and want your money back.

[Umster]

Hey,

 

Sorry to hear about the hassle you're going through, I've had a few similar problems but didn't have to go back to my bank. When I was doing my research, I came across the following key points. 

 

1. You are protected by the Consumer Rights Act 2015

 

2. Your credit card company must protect you via section 75

 

My advice is to let the seller know you'll be exercising your rights and that you paid for a road legal car aka something that is "fit for purpose", "of satisfactory quality" especially for the price, age and mileage of the car. This means it should have or be able to pass an MOT within days of buying it. If it isn't roadworthy, it isn't fit for sale unless they specifically mention that. 

 

Personally I'd reject the car and get a refund. The dealer won't be helpful in doing any decent repairs or work. 

 

Document everything! No matter how small, keep a log with names, timestamps, comments etc. Try and talk via email or text or whatever when you can. You'll need the evidence if the CC company ask for it or if the Citizens Advice/Trading Standards need to get involved. 

 

Don't be afraid to leave honest reviews on Autotrader, Google Maps, TrustPilot etc. Don't let them mess you about but also don't say or do anything silly. 

 

Check out the usual websites for help (Autotrader, Trading Standards, MineySavingExpert) 

 

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-rights-if-something-is-wrong-with-your-car

 

Keep us posted and hopefully it gets sorted ASAP. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Umster
.

[bluethermal]

Gov MOT history site says it failed on 22nd November. 7 advisories, 3 majors and the 1 dangerous. i'd be asking for my money back. 

[Rikz2004]

In all honesty without knowing more details, the fact that it's decatted and the seller tried to hide this would push me towards returning the car for a refund (I believe you have a certain amount of time to do this if a car has been missold to you which it clearly has).

 

I'm not against decatting a car wholesale, if I met an honest seller that had taken care of the car and seemed genuine that would be fine, but the above scenario for me raises warning bells.

[Kryptek49]

Not a good start - total problems on the MOT: 

Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):

• Offside Front Tyre has ply or cords exposed (5.2.3 (d) (ii))

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Exhaust noise is clearly in excess of that emitted by a similar vehicle fitted with a standard silencer in average condition (8.1.1 (a))
• Offside Rear Registration plate lamp inoperative in the case of a single lamp or all lamps (4.7.1 (b) (ii))
• Exhaust carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle exceeds default limits (8.2.1.2 (b))

Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories):

• Offside Rear Tyre worn close to legal limit/worn on edge (5.2.3 (e))
• Nearside Rear Tyre worn close to legal limit/worn on edge (5.2.3 (e))
• Nearside Front Anti-roll bar linkage ball joint has slight play (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Nearside Front Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c))
• Offside Front Brake pipe corroded, covered in grease or other material (1.1.11 (c))
• Offside Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement rear (5.3.4 (a) (i))
• Nearside Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement rear (5.3.4 (a) (i))

 

So you'll now likely have a budget tire on the offside front (if they replaced it at all) and will probably need a new exhaust system, or at least one section of it.

 

2 new rear tyres are also needed soon - but it says worn on edge which implies you may need an alignment too.

 

Brake pipes aren't a massive issue and should be fairly cheap/easy to replace, same with drop links.

 

Suspension arm again isn't a massive issue but can make some funny noises and would be best to replace.

 

As an easy check to see if they have actually done any of this work - are both of your number plate lights actually working, or is one still dead?

[Andre D]

Hi Rik dont get me wrong decatted or not i dont mind, its the fact that the dealer led me to understand it had 12 months mot when i took it and it has not, the cost to put right is not going to be a bulb or even tyre, they just got back to me saying the garage must have "forgot" to update the database for the retest, i cant see how this is possible as all tests now are live online, maybe im wrong but im no longer driving the car while this scenario plays out, i have raised a dispute with cc and the AA. From the research i have done i believe i have grounds but the dealership is in mansfield and im in portsmouth so logistically its difficult.

[Andre D]

ok scary update: just spoke to qualified mot tester, he said because the car failed on a dangerous fail any previous valid mot is void, even though the tyre has been replaced the retest has not been done therefore the system still shows dangerous fail and the car should not be driven until successful retest. So i cant drive the car as it no longer has a valid mot. my day is just getting worse

[Jetpilot]

You have every right to return the car and the law is on your side, however, it doesnt stop it being an absolute pain to get the dealer to either fix the car or return your money. I do believe you have to give the dealer an opportunity to sort the problem before he has to return your money so:

 

My suggestion would be to phone trading standards and they will advise you of the process you need to go through.

 

Sorry to be critical, but as you know you can check an mot on line which you should have done and not trusted the dealer.

 

Should be easy to put right, just buy a 2nd hand set of cats and get fitted.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Jetpilot

[Jay84]

Its also illegal to put a pass on a vehicle when it isn't on site, even if its just a retest on something they fixed. So for them to pass it, it needs sending down to them. 

Also, the MOT centre doesn't appear to be the selling garage, maybe it's worth calling the test station, to see if the vehicle WAS returned? Jetpilot is right though, you have to give the dealer chance to rectify, but in my experience, they'll pay a garage local to yourself to put the car right. Halfords do free safety checks that is an MOT without the headlight alignment and emissions test, get the dealer to agree to pay to have the car made road worthy or you'll return it, trading standards are involved, and you should hopefully see some traction. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Jay84

[Jay84]

2 threads going? As per my other response, you can get the selling garage to pay a local garage to put the car right. We have done it a few times. Choose a national chain, and you'll get nationwide guarantee. I logged on to the mot portal, the MOT station isn't the selling garage. It's illegal to pass a vehicle not on site, so its either sort it locally, or commute unfortunately. 

[Andre D]

Hi thanks guys, i am more than happy to let the dealer get it put right, the garage is different to the dealer. so the dealer is saying its the garages fault for not issuing the retest pass lol, thing is the car is now 200 miles away so what the dealer expects the garage to do i dont know, but if a pass cert gets issued with 3rd december on it i will know they tested emissions on another car and got round it that way but my friend said the garage would have to be seriously stupid to do that.So the real options are the dealer pays for repairs and mot down here or he comes to get the car and refunds me and takes back on trade plates as i cannot legally drive it. you are absolutely right though, i am old enough to know that i shouldnt have trusted the dealers word,  warning bells should have sounded then and i should have walked away. but because they are AA approved i thought i was safe.The dealer at the moment seems more concearned about the credit card dispute than getting the car sorted which is also raising some worry. well we will see what monday brings i guess

[Kieran O'Quick]

Whatever you do, don't back down. You'll be annoyed at yourself forever. It tends to be a bit of a bluffing game. I'd say go hard for a full rejection of the sale. The law is on your side, hugely, but it just takes time. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Kieran O'Quick

[Andre D]

Hi Kieran, i wont be backing down mate, before i travelled up there they assured me that it would have a years mot, i have now discovered it has de-cat pipes so could not have passed mot or re-test without those being replaced, i now am sure they knew they couldnt get an mot without spending a significant amount of money. i have told them what has been discovered and have given them the option of refund and collect the car or accept quotes and pay for the car to be mot'd down here.Dont think they will like either option. i will keep this thread updated, oh if anyone has any cats and/or stainless exhaust they want to sell let me know thanks

[GMballistic]

@Andre D Topics merged. Please try not to create multiple threads on the same subject. Thank you.

 

Good luck. 

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

15 hours ago, Jay84 said:

I logged on to the mot portal, the MOT station isn't the selling garage.

How did you figure that out? I'd love to know where abouts in the country my old zed currently is in.

 

I tried the mot portal and it just supplies the mot number.

Edited December 2, 2018 by The Bounty Bar Kid

[Andre D]

2 hours ago, The Bounty Bar Kid said:

How did you figure that out? I'd love to know where abouts in the country my old zed currently is in.

 

I tried the mot portal and it just supplies the mot number.

its a .gov gateway where you can check if the vehicle is mot'd, also if you have the 11 digit v5c you can also check where/what mot station did the mot

[Andre D]

7 hours ago, GMballistic said:

@Andre D Topics merged. Please try not to create multiple threads on the same subject. Thank you.

 

Good luck. 

Sorry i was a little worse for beer and couldnt find the original so did another thinking i didnt press the submit button, thanks for the merger.

[Jetpilot]

I think he meant how did you work out its not the garage selling the car who is mot'ing it, which you have answered earlier, because they dont do mot's 

[Andre D]

Thanks for all the input guys, when a situation like this occurs it really helps to have support like this.  Kryptek49 thanks for the tech rundown. it was in my mind to replace both rear tyres as when i looked over the car i could see they would need replacing, also the advised part of the mot brake lines etc i would be prepared to get done as it would not have prevented an mot pass, im not an unreasonable person the car is 06 on 65,000. but the exhaust issue is a different matter it looks to me like a custom made affair so new cats and cat back looks the only option. I paid 5295 for the car at the time i thought this was a good deal, but with about 1k for exhausts and mot that another tester could fail other things i really cannot see the dealer being prepared to pay.A refund looks the most likely outcome. umster thanks for the advice mate, all comms have been via whats app messaging and the dealer has clearly admitted that this should never have happened and admitted liability. anyone know if i can prints a whats app conversation? thanks again guys

[Jetpilot]

For a grand you could get a nice aftermarket system and high flow cats, which in fairness most people do anyway. Or just get some 2nd cats, pass the mot and keep your eye out for a 2nd hand exhaust.

 

https://www.tarmacsportz.co.uk/exhaust.html?cars=4

 

I would be asking for a grand off (get a price for new cats from Nissan) or come and collect the car, repair, mot and return or money back.

 

 

[Andre D]

thanks jet pilot yep thats not unrealistic at this point, i have the entire whatsapp messages downloaded between me and dealer, am i allowed to post on here the conversation and would anyone be interested in seeing it. i dont want to infringe on any rules.thanks

[LRF4N]

@Ekona is pretty good with this kind of thing

 

Hope it gets sorted easily 

[Jay84]

Sorry not been on, I have an mot card as I rub a test station, it means I can print off certificates and get more info on test sites. Then I just googled the test station, they don't have cars listed for sale.