Stutopia Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I must admit it’s not something I’ve spent any time reading up on, but why is everyone so upset about the concept of an EU army? NATO didn’t start from something too dissimilar and there’s been relative peace in the West since then (if you consider the preceding 50 years as the benchmark). There’s not much that goes on without UN resolutions or coalitions of some type when we or one of our allies goes in somewhere. Are people worried the EU army will invade the U.K.? What am I missing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Watch this, This was 2 weeks ago. Is it a good idea for people like these to have an army ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 also merkel and macron have both said in the last week that they need an EU Army to defend against Russia, China and the USA.....???? wtf ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, SuperStu said: I must admit it’s not something I’ve spent any time reading up on, but why is everyone so upset about the concept of an EU army? NATO didn’t start from something too dissimilar and there’s been relative peace in the West since then (if you consider the preceding 50 years as the benchmark). There’s not much that goes on without UN resolutions or coalitions of some type when we or one of our allies goes in somewhere. Are people worried the EU army will invade the U.K.? What am I missing? Here's my take after a few sleepless nights of reading. One key reason but not the only one, is that the French and German want an EU army is due to their weapons, ammunition, planes and equipment production. they want to centralise European purchasing and take it away from individual country purchases. They also want to reduce the EU purchases from the US. The UK would either have to become part of this system, or become an outside seller as the US is. UK was against the EU army all along due to these reasons, but now due to Brexit, it's veto is gone, and EU can finally do what thee wanted. Anyone who ever worked in a multinational corporation knows that centralised purchasing means bigger quantities ordered, better negotiating position, etc. Also joint European development means bigger competitive chances Vs US sellers. And I think the UK will become louder and louder from the outside, as it lost its vote and influence. Anyone thinking it's about invading anything needs to calm down. It's all about them dollars. Also this has been brewing for 5 years at least, was only made possible by Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Bullet said: Watch this, This was 2 weeks ago. Is it a good idea for people like these to have an army ? Hahahaha "these people" is suddenly one guy - Verhofstadt. You do know there's an European parliament right? And that this one guy can't do anything. That's like saying the world should be afraid the UK has an army because Bobo Johnson doesn't like how Muslim women dress and look. You need to chill down buddy, seriously 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, SuperStu said: I must admit it’s not something I’ve spent any time reading up on, but why is everyone so upset about the concept of an EU army? Just spit balling: What about if its a war we dont want to get involved in? How much is this army going to cost us when we have a perfectly good one anyway, in fact, an exceedingly good one? Who would be in charge of the ultimate decisions, majority vote from the countries leaders or Brussels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Maggz said: You need to chill down buddy, seriously You seriously need to stop being so condescending to people, his view and opinion is as valid as yours and tbf, he seems perfectly calm, he just added a link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) I don't know enough about the EU army but from my basic reading the idea is that Europe can act as one against common threats (yes what if its a war we don't want to get involved in, but conversely what if its a war we are involved in but then Europe would back, us cite Argentina where lets not kid ourselves we very nearly got drawn into a long conflict we could have lost). I haven't read anywhere about the EU saying to defend against the US, all I have read is Trump vitriol because he had pressured countries into paying more into NATO but that spend would be in the form of US arms purchased from the US. The EU army would in effect reduce down the number of arms suppliers, generate better purchasing power, synchronise technology, build better defences, most likely utilise European weapons suppliers and not the US. Its all hypothetical anyway, we aren't in it. The world wont end because of an EU army. Just like our economy wont end because of Brexit. Edited November 20, 2018 by coldel 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Jetpilot said: You seriously need to stop being so condescending to people, his view and opinion is as valid as yours and tbf, he seems perfectly calm, he just added a link. And what a link it was. Something even Alex Jones would be jealous about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I get that lunatics shouldn’t have guns, but I can’t tell the difference between the one in the video and Big Don or Vlad or North Korea or Israel, there’s loads of tooled up nutters on the global stage and I’m against the lot of them, but what on earth is leaving the EU (giving up our veto on topics like this) going to do to stop an EU Army? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, Maggz said: Hahahaha "these people" is suddenly one guy - Verhofstadt. You do know there's an European parliament right? And that this one guy can't do anything. That's like saying the world should be afraid the UK has an army because Bobo Johnson doesn't like how Muslim women dress and look. You need to chill down buddy, seriously Just in case you missed it "also merkel and macron have both said in the last week that they need an EU Army to defend against Russia, China and the USA.....???? wtf ?? " Guy verhofstad 'Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe ' Angela merkel 'The leader of germany Emmanuel macron 'The leader of france' (who we share a military unions with) 'These people', Your ignorance is staggering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Guys, stop with the insults and petty bickering. It’s pathetic, and is the reason these threads get locked. You all all have good points, so use them to make your argument rather than sniping at each other please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBorehamUK Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Ekona said: Guys, stop with the insults and petty bickering. It’s pathetic, and is the reason these threads get locked. You all all have good points, so use them to make your argument rather than sniping at each other please. +1 Absolutely no need to be condescending to people that don't share your views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I remember being telt, ‘the only way to stay in the European Union, is to vote remain part of the Union in the Scottish referendum’, Big Dave, Gordo the Mentalist, Menzies the merciless, all ‘Unionist’ politicians. Big Dave was the PM as well That convinced a lot o people tae vote ‘remain part of the Union’ Fast forward two years, and a Unionist party, run by Big Dave, set about a referendum to stay or leave the EU, a very clear majority in Scotland voted remain, coz Big Dave and his mates had said, it was the only way we would remain in the EU, if we voted to remain in the Union, therefore, let’s vote remain! Ah dunno, I’m confused, can I leave the Union of parliaments but remain in the European Union? Turns oot, naw!, neither Moanty ffs Did everyone miss Hammond’s little aside re pension funds in the ‘budget’, something aboot using the profits or taxing them more to meet the challenges ahead, wonder what that is, or was I dreaming that some great debate here, I too have fun asking leave voters what laws they want to change, implement or dream up that will be better than our current crop, that couldn’t be done as a member of the EU currently through the big hoose in London better the devil ye ken, as my auld granny used tae say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Bullet said: Just in case you missed it "also merkel and macron have both said in the last week that they need an EU Army to defend against Russia, China and the USA.....???? wtf ?? " Guy verhofstad 'Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe ' Angela merkel 'The leader of germany Emmanuel macron 'The leader of france' (who we share a military unions with) 'These people', Your ignorance is staggering What's staggering is taking things out of context and presenting them like we're entering WWIII. What's even worse is taking Donald Trump tweets as facts and news. But in the positive spirits that I agree should be kept on this forum and generally around these topics, I'll leave an article which explains what Merkel and Macron actually want and said. Just so we take opinions out of it. It would be great if others could back up their statements with articles. https://www.ft.com/content/3f5c6c74-e752-11e8-8a85-04b8afea6ea3 Statements like the one above are part of the reason why so much desinformation is going around. Soundbites and lack of facts. To me personally it's upsetting and (accepting getting banned) to me are moronic as they're based on Alex Jones like videos and not on any credible source (that ive seen at least) Serious discussion should have those, otherwise it's just a pissing contest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 "What's even worse is taking Donald Trump tweets as facts and news". Who did that ? i didn't even mention Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The G Man Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, Bullet said: "What's even worse is taking Donald Trump tweets as facts and news". Who did that ? i didn't even mention Trump. Earlier in the convo from someone else, I’ve read all four pages and Maggz is very good and lucid around his arguments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, The G Man said: Earlier in the convo from someone else, I’ve read all four pages and Maggz is very good and lucid around his arguments Oh he might be but he was quoting me, 5 minutes ago, Maggz said: Alex Jones like videos Now you keep saying that but are you saying that because you don't like the commentary afterwards you are completely blocking out what Verhofstad said ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bullet said: Now you keep saying that but are you saying that because you don't like the commentary afterwards you are completely blocking out what Verhofstad said ?? As I said, if we start judging parliament's based on a single person and their statements, there's not a single country in this world that should have an army, UK included. What I'm saying is, you've taken the Merkel and Macron bit out of context, and have posted a short clip of 1 guy out of 751 seats in the EU parliament. That's like indicating the UK is what George Galloway says. I hope you see how that's problematic, especially when you try and make a point in regards to the EU army. Sorry for me that's misleading to say the least, if not intentionally twisted and inflammatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Who is this Alex Jones? Never heard of him. Is he important? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Just now, Ekona said: Who is this Alex Jones? Never heard of him. Is he important? You're in for a treat then. Check YT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Oh, he’s a radio host. Not really sure why he’s relevant to the conversation tbh, he’s just another media outlet that people can choose to believe or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Ekona said: Oh, he’s a radio host. Not really sure why he’s relevant to the conversation tbh, he’s just another media outlet that people can choose to believe or not. He's a bit more than that. Go on, YouTube some of his highlights, wiki isn't enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Maggz said: As I said, if we start judging parliament's based on a single person and their statements, there's not a single country in this world that should have an army, UK included. What I'm saying is, you've taken the Merkel and Macron bit out of context, and have posted a short clip of 1 guy out of 751 seats in the EU parliament. That's like indicating the UK is what George Galloway says. I hope you see how that's problematic, especially when you try and make a point in regards to the EU army. Sorry for me that's misleading to say the least, if not intentionally twisted and inflammatory. How on earth can this be taken out of context: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 or this or this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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