Ekona Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 2 hours ago, ilogikal1 said: Me? Certain people definitely, but I was largely being facetious. I don’t understand the principal of blaming Boris for anyone else being a moron. I blame Boris for my lack of understanding, naturally. Soz bud, that was meant for Maggz not you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ekona said: So what would you suggest happens right now? You’re in charge, anything goes but you have to have balance and think long term as well. Ensure there's a few years of PPE purchased, make masks mandatory everywhere apart from in your own house, 2m social distancing inside and out. Anyone that can ensure the 2m rule and masks, can have their business, school, factory, etc. open, anyone who can't gets govt. support to survive this period, or support to reorganize so they can actually apply and follow the rules. And brace for a rough autumn, winter and spring. That would be a good start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 So what about those who cannot medically wear a mask? And children in school? And how do you police the 2m rule? Punishment for non-compliance? What about restaurants and pubs, and the wearing of masks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 And where does all this government support come from exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said: And where does all this government support come from exactly? You're acting like you're living in poor country. Just exercise the law and tax Amazon, Apple and Google for their profits just as everyone else pays them, and you'll all be living on benefits for the next decade. Anyone telling you that there's no money is lying. It'sjust hard to take it from companies that help you win an election or have funded your campaign or party. This goes for all sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Ekona said: So what about those who cannot medically wear a mask? And children in school? And how do you police the 2m rule? Punishment for non-compliance? What about restaurants and pubs, and the wearing of masks? Can you light up a cigarette in any of those places? How is that policed? How is this any different? The law is clear around smoking indoors, including what the punishment is, why isn't it about masks? And there's no policing about cigarettes, people just don't break the law. If it's a question of convenience, then it's easy to not wear it. But if you knew you were breaking the law, and someone could call the cops, you would probably wear it. All this drama around policing, costs, etc is just laziness. Vast majority of people just decide to not break any laws. And if a new law comes into place, you accept it, as your morals are to not break any laws. Most people don't have a list of laws they like breaking and those they don't. So people just adjust and find a way to make them work. Edited August 9, 2020 by Maggz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 And you’re back to treating people like adults. Which Boris has been criticised for already on this thread, so that doesn't float. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said: And you’re back to treating people like adults. Which Boris has been criticised for already on this thread, so that doesn't float. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shunter8 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Maggz said: Can you light up a cigarette in any of those places? How is that policed? How is this any different? The law is clear around smoking indoors, including what the punishment is, why isn't it about masks? And there's no policing about cigarettes, people just don't break the law. If it's a question of convenience, then it's easy to not wear it. But if you knew you were breaking the law, and someone could call the cops, you would probably wear it. All this drama around policing, costs, etc is just laziness. Vast majority of people just decide to not break any laws. And if a new law comes into place, you accept it, as your morals are to not break any laws. Most people don't have a list of laws they like breaking and those they don't. So people just adjust and find a way to make them work. But the police don’t even have the time or resources to respond and chase down actual criminals committing more serious crimes. So do you really expect them to send officers out to every call of someone not wearing a mask? Don't get me wrong I’m all for and happy to wear masks in public as it’s not for my benefit but to potentially save someone more vulnerable catching anything I may transmit. But yea I’d say you’re a little off the mark if you expect them to have the police time and resources to respond to the probably millions of calls they’d get because lots of careless or ignorant people won’t wear a mask even if it is illegal. I’ve witnessed and reported multiple crimes being committed out in public, mostly on the road with video evidence some times and the police couldn’t give 2 hoots as there’s still not enough to get CPS to have faith in a conviction so not wearing a mask being illegal will be absolutely pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Maggz said: Can you light up a cigarette in any of those places? How is that policed? How is this any different? The law is clear around smoking indoors, including what the punishment is, why isn't it about masks? And there's no policing about cigarettes, people just don't break the law. If it's a question of convenience, then it's easy to not wear it. But if you knew you were breaking the law, and someone could call the cops, you would probably wear it. All this drama around policing, costs, etc is just laziness. Vast majority of people just decide to not break any laws. And if a new law comes into place, you accept it, as your morals are to not break any laws. Most people don't have a list of laws they like breaking and those they don't. So people just adjust and find a way to make them work. Okay, but what about the exceptions I mentioned, kids, medically unable, pubs etc? What do you do about masks then? Also I can smoke when I go outside or into other peoples’ houses, so it’s not quite as straightforward as you put it, albeit I concede it’s a valid point. The whole point about social distancing for 2m is that it essentially negates the need for masks, so if we can do that then can we take masks off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, Maggz said: What? He’s saying (I think) that you’re saying that people don’t break laws because they’re expected to obey them, but that assumes a level of responsibility that we’re clearly not seeing. Essentially you’re expecting people to act like adults, which is what you’ve criticised the government for doing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 25 minutes ago, Ekona said: He’s saying (I think) that you’re saying that people don’t break laws because they’re expected to obey them, but that assumes a level of responsibility that we’re clearly not seeing. Essentially you’re expecting people to act like adults, which is what you’ve criticised the government for doing. Yep, that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Shunter8 said: But the police don’t even have the time or resources to respond and chase down actual criminals committing more serious crimes. So do you really expect them to send officers out to every call of someone not wearing a mask? Don't get me wrong I’m all for and happy to wear masks in public as it’s not for my benefit but to potentially save someone more vulnerable catching anything I may transmit. But yea I’d say you’re a little off the mark if you expect them to have the police time and resources to respond to the probably millions of calls they’d get because lots of careless or ignorant people won’t wear a mask even if it is illegal. I’ve witnessed and reported multiple crimes being committed out in public, mostly on the road with video evidence some times and the police couldn’t give 2 hoots as there’s still not enough to get CPS to have faith in a conviction so not wearing a mask being illegal will be absolutely pointless. I'm not expecting police to be there or do anything. What I'm saying is that legislating something is enough to make 80% of people fall in line. I don't need to see police to know not to steal. I know that if I do steal, there's a chance I'll get in trouble, just as for smoking indoors. Currently there is nothing which will give people the same chance of getting in trouble and detract most from doing it. Which is a lot better then what we have today. It's not hurting anyone, just saving so I'm confused why anyone would think it's not a good idea or that having nothing (as-is) is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ekona said: He’s saying (I think) that you’re saying that people don’t break laws because they’re expected to obey them, but that assumes a level of responsibility that we’re clearly not seeing. Essentially you’re expecting people to act like adults, which is what you’ve criticised the government for doing. But you're missing the key component....laws have sticks, consequences, which are threatening people with punishment if they don't follow them, which is quite a bit different from advice that wearing masks is smart. I'm expecting that people won't break the law, but that they won't give a rat's ass about your fellow countrymen if it's just someone's advice. Which the past few months have proven. If advice is good enough, why dont we advise people to not rape kids, or kill people or sell drugs? Because no one cares about advice, people will do whatever they please. People are just offended when anyone suggests the average person is a irresponsible t***s. So we're now trying to twist laws and advice and trying to make them equal as both rely on people "being adults" whatever that means Edited August 9, 2020 by Maggz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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