Brexit again

[Maggz]

14 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Nothing has changed because of Covid19. Ironically it’s probably done us a favour, as we’re now used to a crashed economy and proper leaving the EU post-transition won’t make a lot of difference now. 
 

Independence for other countries is as far away as it’s ever been, in my eyes. There’s no money to do anything, and ultimately no one wants to make themselves poorer when they’re already skint. 
 

Boris has done fine, not outstanding but I’m not sure anyone else would’ve done much better. They’d simply have made different mistakes. I do like Kier Starmer though, supports publicly the sensible decisions rather than just mock because he’s on the opposite side of the commons. 

In what way is Boris doing fine? Compared to who? 

[The G Man]

5 minutes ago, DoogyRev said:

well he did catch "the vid" and survived 

Yes, with the help of some NHS personnel from the ‘colonies’, no doctor has congratulated his survival 

[Maggz]

2 minutes ago, The G Man said:

Yes, I agree with that.  I’m trying to gauge the general feeling amongst those that broadly supported this nonsense.

So what, now you expect them to be rational all of a sudden? 

[The G Man]

1 minute ago, Maggz said:

So what, now you expect them to be rational all of a sudden? 

Well, honestly, no, I want to hear them put forward why they think it’s right and, what benefits it’s bringing me and you and anyone else

[Ekona]

11 hours ago, Maggz said:

In what way is Boris doing fine? Compared to who? 

The last Conservative leader, for a start  I struggle to see anything that he’s done that’s been a life-changing, step-down-now clusterf*ck, which is a decent start. He showed solid leadership early on during Covid, and the daily briefings were an excellent idea, but obviously there’s been a few holes in The Plan that we can now see. So yeah, I’d say he’s doing fine, as opposed to dreadful or spectacular. 
 

Same goes for Kier Starmer, he’s also doing fine. 

[Maggz]

16 minutes ago, Ekona said:

The last Conservative leader, for a start  I struggle to see anything that he’s done that’s been a life-changing, step-down-now clusterf*ck, which is a decent start. He showed solid leadership early on during Covid, and the daily briefings were an excellent idea, but obviously there’s been a few holes in The Plan that we can now see. So yeah, I’d say he’s doing fine, as opposed to dreadful or spectacular. 
 

Same goes for Kier Starmer, he’s also doing fine. 

https://www.newstatesman.com/covid19/2020/07/how-uk-failed-covid-19-international-view-0

 

Last to impose lockdown rules, sending sick people to care homes then blaming care homes for the death and infection rates, asking people to do the right thing instead of legislating it, failing the whole NHS with not providing enough PPE, hell he even toured and shook hands with covid patients.

I mean the only thing he didn't (yet) do is lick hospital floors.

 

He also did great defending Dom when he broke lockdown rules (twice apparently), just as well as doing great giving guidance that a lot of people didn't understand.

 

The UK was consistently in the top 5 worse countries in the world when it comes to infection rates and death rates during the first wave.

 

He's doing so well, that he's become the second biggest meme generator next to Trump. He's a true national treasure.

 

And the one thing you think he's done better than May is forcing a hard brexit where she wanted some sort of an agreement to protect the UK economy. I guess the amazing trade deal with the US is his way of protecting the economy, we just need to rip out Huawei from our networks first at the cost of £2bn for the telecom providers and not have 5g until Americans or Cisco figure out how to do it.

But we're a rich country that can spend £2bn on something ridiculous that Trump wants and not invest it into NHS, infrastructure, social housing, schools or anything else.  

[Ekona]

I didn’t say he was doing well. I said he was doing fine. Not perfect, but he could be worse.  There’s always plenty to pick holes in, however as an overall view I don’t think it’s as bad as you make out. He did lockdown when people wanted it, and released it when people wanted it: In that respect, we’ve only to blame ourselves really. 
 

I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the whole Cummings thing either. That was political point scoring at its worst. 

[Maggz]

49 minutes ago, Ekona said:

I didn’t say he was doing well. I said he was doing fine. Not perfect, but he could be worse.  There’s always plenty to pick holes in, however as an overall view I don’t think it’s as bad as you make out. He did lockdown when people wanted it, and released it when people wanted it: In that respect, we’ve only to blame ourselves really. 
 

I couldn’t give a rat’s ass about the whole Cummings thing either. That was political point scoring at its worst. 

Why should he do what "the people" want during a pandemic. He needs to do what the science demands. **** the people. What does my nan know about covid? Or me and you for that matter? He needed to save lives and he failed 50k people and all their families as he was a few weeks late with literally every measure

[ilogikal1]

Quite right, how dare anyone treat a nation like adults?! he should definitely know better than to do that...

[pintopete58]

Remember it all revolves around MONEY

[Maggz]

1 hour ago, ilogikal1 said:

Quite right, how dare anyone treat a nation like adults?! he should definitely know better than to do that...

Adult means you're above 18 years old, has nothing to do with intelligence, education, or common sense, and us having the worst infection and death rates in Europe literally proves that you can rely on the general public to do the right thing on their own

[Ekona]

People failed people. We all knew about COVID, we still know about it, and tbh no one really took any steps to help themselves then or now. Short of locking us in at gunpoint, what more is there to do? Sure, we got caught short on some supplies which was bad, but I genuinely don’t think locking down earlier would’ve helped and opening up when he did was probably the right call. Unfortunately idiots who don’t get it have caused the minor spikes we’ve seen of late. That’s not something you can blame on any government. 

[Ekona]

3 hours ago, pintopete58 said:

Remember it all revolves around MONEY

To a point, it has to unfortunately. That’s a sad but very true fact of modern life, whether that’s right or wrong. 

[Maggz]

32 minutes ago, Ekona said:

People failed people. We all knew about COVID, we still know about it, and tbh no one really took any steps to help themselves then or now. Short of locking us in at gunpoint, what more is there to do? Sure, we got caught short on some supplies which was bad, but I genuinely don’t think locking down earlier would’ve helped and opening up when he did was probably the right call. Unfortunately idiots who don’t get it have caused the minor spikes we’ve seen of late. That’s not something you can blame on any government. 

Your memory is very short I assume as Italy was already on 10k dead when most people in the UK were still joking around that it's just like the flu, and  no measures were even being discussed. You also obviously also forgot that there were 5 cobra meetings on covid and he didn't attend a single one. It was clear in Feb already how serious this was due to the Italian situation and it took Boris a full month to do something about it. So yes, it's absolutely his and his government's fault. The whole thing was an absolute joke. 

[pintopete58]

Only because we've been honest? On ower figures?

[Ekona]

1 hour ago, Maggz said:

Your memory is very short I assume as Italy was already on 10k dead when most people in the UK were still joking around that it's just like the flu, and  no measures were even being discussed. You also obviously also forgot that there were 5 cobra meetings on covid and he didn't attend a single one. It was clear in Feb already how serious this was due to the Italian situation and it took Boris a full month to do something about it. So yes, it's absolutely his and his government's fault. The whole thing was an absolute joke. 

I didn’t forget anything. You’re right though, people were still joking around, and that’s been the bigger problem than anything else. We as a nation made everything worse because we didn’t take it seriously or understand the implications. Just like Brexit. 

[The G Man]

9 hours ago, ilogikal1 said:

Quite right, how dare anyone treat a nation like adults?! he should definitely know better than to do that...

One needs to be an adult to understand adults, clownheid is less an adult as my 3yr old grandson.  This moron, masquerading as an adult, has shown toddler like tendencies when ‘appealing’ to “good old British common sense”.

 

Anyway, the gist of this thread revival is to gauge, given what we know now of this unmitigated disaster known as Brexit, to those that supported it, would you still support it and, what are the benefits?

 

Can supporters point to our ‘extra’ freedoms?  What ‘freedoms’ are we to look forward to on 01/01/21, that we didn’t have prior to 2016?

 

Bearing in mind, we now understand that the whole fiasco was brought about to allow the tax dodging rich avoid new EU legislation and was not about ‘ sovrinty’ that we already had.

[The G Man]

4 hours ago, Ekona said:

I didn’t forget anything. You’re right though, people were still joking around, and that’s been the bigger problem than anything else. We as a nation made everything worse because we didn’t take it seriously or understand the implications. Just like Brexit. 

Dan, I can’t forget your statement ‘Covid did US (?) a favour’.  Who is ‘us’, never did me or my family or the 70,000+ dead a ‘favour’, not in a brexit scenario, a healthy nation scenario nor in a NHS scenario did Covid ‘do us a favour’. That’s pretty perverse.

 

The only ‘favour’ Covid did was to temporarily let this band of incompetent scoundrels, off the hook, temporarily.  Covid is still here, brexit is inevitable, none of these things ‘do us a favour’.

 

As a father, a father in law, a brother and an uncle to 4 nurses, I asked them if they think Covid ‘did us a favour’, not in any shape, form or fashion was there a positive to that scenario.

 

Stay safe

 

 

[Ekona]

I meant it did us a favour in getting us rapidly used to the idea of a weaker economy, something which I believe Brexit will lead to. Nothing more than that. It was a response to your question about how Covid has affected Brexit. 

Edited August 9, 2020 by Ekona

[ilogikal1]

9 hours ago, The G Man said:

One needs to be an adult to understand adults, clownheid is less an adult as my 3yr old grandson.  This moron, masquerading as an adult, has shown toddler like tendencies when ‘appealing’ to “good old British common sense”.

You're absolutely right. It's quite clearly entirely Boris' fault, and Boris' alone, that there are so many individuals in the country that are completely incapable of taking any responsibility for themselves, let alone for their actions. I think it was entirely wrong of Boris to allow anyone, even the remotely sensibile minority, to make any of their own decisions about how they act, even in light of all the available information.

 

Boris threatening to imprison, or better still have the army patrolling the streets with instructions to beat or kill anyone that dared leave their own home, from day one. That's what was needed. After all, it's not like anyone bitched and moaned about infringements on their civili liberties when they were advised against washing their car in the street or anything.

 

Yep, Boris failed us. Damn him.

[Maggz]

Good old common sense

[Ekona]

I don’t believe you’d actually want stricter controls to that degree. Surely allowing people to make their own decisions (within reason) and having sensible punishments for non-compliance is better than stopping the whole country again? Or would you be in favour of more and harsher lock downs again?

 

Genuine question, not trying to pick a fight here. 

[ilogikal1]

Me? Certain people definitely, but I was largely being facetious. I don’t understand the principal of blaming Boris for anyone else being a moron. I blame Boris for my lack of understanding, naturally.

[Maggz]

1 hour ago, Ekona said:

I don’t believe you’d actually want stricter controls to that degree. Surely allowing people to make their own decisions (within reason) and having sensible punishments for non-compliance is better than stopping the whole country again? Or would you be in favour of more and harsher lock downs again?

 

Genuine question, not trying to pick a fight here. 

Anything that can cause someone's death needs to be regulated and prevented. Why should people die because some tard believes 5g is causing all the problems, covid is a scam and dead birds are the proof. That one idiot can infect tens of people. Another issue is that a lot of people are asymptomatic but still spreading, and if they don't have laws forcing them to wear masks, they won't do it as it inconveniences them. And they can still cause other people to suffer or die... because inconvenience. 

It's so disgraceful that we trust people around something that actually killed over 50.000 people and did not legislate all the measures. 

Yes I would 100% want stricter and legislated measures and not just asking people to be smart, as they clearly are not. 

 

This is now 2 months old but just read this article. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/12/health/britain-masks-intl-gbr/index.html

 

I mean just this part shows how smart and responsible the UK public is when you let them do the right thing:

"in late April in the UK around 25% of people wore face masks or coverings in public places. This is staggeringly low compared to 83.4% in Italy and 63.8% in Spain in the same period."

 

Heartbroken, disappointed, and extremely sad, and what hurts even more is people defending the absolute stupidity of not legislating, as we now know that it was wrong, and that it made us one of the worst countries in the world. But inconvenience is obviously worse...

[Ekona]

So what would you suggest happens right now? You’re in charge, anything goes but you have to have balance and think long term as well.