Brexit again

[coldel]

Quoting me out of context Doc, how very brexit of you  I did say it also has opinions based on good reading etc!

[Stutopia]

So far as I can recall, no one got particularly upset in the past when another member posted a car meme or a link to a YouTube drift video or an article about a car launch, with little or no additional content surrounding it. Objections to this style of posting (which I do personally find irritating) might have a touch more credibility now, if they had complained about them PRIOR to complaining about ones where they disagree with the content.

[ilogikal1]

7 hours ago, Ekona said:

Could’ve posted that before I made myself look stupid

That boat has so long sailed that it's well over the horizon by now. Unless you zoom in with a video camera... 

[Flashback]

3 hours ago, Maggz said:

The discussion is the whole thread btw. The whole 30 page thread. What you're talking about is a post, and yes, a post can contain useful information from a 3rd party credible source, and is considered part of the discussion if it's on topic. 

 

Now... If anyone posts a knitting guide here from Facebook, then I'd say that's definitely not part of the discussion. 

www.facebook.com/knittingkninja/ 

[Jetpilot]

14 hours ago, coldel said:

take 10 deep breaths

 

14 hours ago, docwra said:

everything Ive posted has been authored by me

 

12 hours ago, SuperStu said:

where they disagree with the content.

So after taking my 10 deep breathes i will respond to my public telling off from @glrnet and with reference to the above.

 

My post was a factual response including the bit about regurgitating links, perhaps it didnt need to contain a dig, but find it ironic that after a number of links from Torqen that have been removed from this thread for breaking forum rules and personal attacks from other members, "I" am singled out for a public telling off.

 

I am more than happy to discuss alternating views with members, Codel, Ekona, Doc etc and is absolutely nothing to do with not liking the content but merely posting links to bait (it worked) is trolling, plain and simple, also against forum rules and a familiar trend. As for the question of not liking Torqen and as such taking exception to his posts for that reason is far from the case, i dont even know him and perhaps its quite the opposite after i didnt once buy parts from him and he trolls me, akin to the "fake nismo" debate, it wouldnt be the first time. To be fair though i have no problem saying, i probably wouldnt enjoy his company and he mine  We could all just post links that try to trump one another, but is that really debate, relevant to the discussion or not.

 

I shall say no more on here or to Torqen and if anyone wishes to contact me from the upper echelon regarding the subject, feel free to pm me for the benefit of the thread and other members!

 

 

 

 

[Stutopia]

In consultation with the whole Team, some posts have been hidden. Not because they breach the rules, but simply because some members were unhappy about them and we try accommodate various levels of sensitivity where we can, whilst still allowing for some warm discourse.

 

Please don’t confuse a simple concession to anyone who is more easily upset, with a disciplinary measure against the poster(s).

 

When there are breaches of the rules, they won’t be dealt with in the public space and the offending member will be aware of them because we’ll have a private dialogue. Then, once the team have had a chat, actions are taken and it’s usually resolved amicably. Many people have had warnings in the past and we’ve all gotten over it.

 

P.S. I wouldn’t usually explain the views of the team in public, but given that this appears to be one of the more divisive topics and the clear and obvious attempts by the lizard people to subvert Brexit, The Team have views on Brexit on both sides of the divide, we’re not part of the secret cabal. 

 

 

In a wider point, many other web forums have explicit rules forbidding the discussion of politics or religion or contentious issues, personally I think this detracts somewhat from the community and having all manner of views (on things other than Brexit) actually makes this a more engaging place to be.

[Ekona]

Great post Stu, and I think sometimes it helps members to have the thoughts of the Team explained. 

 

So, Brexit then. Anyone else feel we’re almost certainly heading into GE territory, and the hung parliament that will no doubt follow? 

[ATTAK Z]

@Ekona Hope not !

[The G Man]

So Brexit is a disaster, for the nation, for the people, for those that voted for it, for those that voted against it, nae winners, only losers.  

 

one things for sure, re Stu post, naebody understands it, but in my opinion, when you start athread with such a controversial subject matter, the OP is looking for provocation and reaction, more trolling than anything else.

 

raw views and emotion follow.  

 

My Mrs is a brexiteer, she’s got, by her own admission, nae understanding of the consequence and, no matter how ridiculous the repercussions, she won’t enter into discussion and like most brexiteers, ‘just want it to finish’, well no, not until you have listened to every last excruciating discussion, news item, parliamentary idiocy that YOU started.

 

So there!

 

 

[Ekona]

Some Brexiteers just want out on principle, and damned the consequences. Tbh, I can understand that, at least more than those that feel everything will magically be better if we leave. 

 

Without wishing to start an argument with you G, it’s the same as those that voted in the IndyRef for going it alone just so the Scots were totally ok their own. As a point of principle, I respect that. Genuinely. 

[ilogikal1]

But  at the same time there are now some remainers who feel we should leave because that’s what the referendum demanded despite their own beliefs that leaving is detrimental to the country.

That , to me, is even more baffling.

[Ekona]

That’s me, then. 

 

I feel that way for two reasons:

 

1. Because I respect democracy. I don’t like losing, but I accept when more people think a different way to me. Even if they’re wrong. See: Jeremy Corbyn supporters. 

2. Because I’m a stubborn tw*t who now wants those who voted leave to see exactly how messed up things will be because of them. See: Jeremy Corbyn supporters  

 

I still think it’s the wrong decision, but I’ll be damned if the court of social media should overrule a legitimate legal process now. 

[Stutopia]

5 hours ago, Ekona said:

That’s me, then. 

 

I feel that way for two reasons:

 

1. Because I respect democracy. I don’t like losing, but I accept when more people think a different way to me. Even if they’re wrong. See: Jeremy Corbyn supporters. 

2. Because I’m a stubborn tw*t who now wants those who voted leave to see exactly how messed up things will be because of them. See: Jeremy Corbyn supporters  

 

I still think it’s the wrong decision, but I’ll be damned if the court of social media should overrule a legitimate legal process now. 

I was on the point 2 tip for a while, but then I considered that the major demographic who want out at any cost (the perplexing “things were great in the olden days, but obviously not so great that they didn’t change” position) will either never work again, or are very close to retirement and, better yet, have already reaped all the economic benefit. The worst that’ll happen is that their pension pots might take a dent and some food and energy price rises. Fortunately for them, pensioners are the single biggest recipients of benefits, and they vote in large numbers, so any negatives they feel will be quickly pandered to.

 

Regarding point 1, I too think the “rules” need to be respected, the only part of that I find there to any wiggle room in that argument, is that there was demonstrable lies told in the campaign, that were extremely popular. Once the rules were broken then, any subsequent position of trying to defend it as a process with integrity, is almost catastrophically demolished. Once you start using your hands to play football, there’s little point in getting upset about the offside laws.

[docwra]

Nobody knows whats going to happen? I can show you FB posts I made 15 months ago talking about Irish border being an impossible issue, that major car companies would pull out of UK, that no deal was economic suicide and that a deal everyone was happy with wasnt going to be possible. 
Ive earlier posts around the time of the vote proving £350m wasnt going to happen, that the single market is essential for us and that immigration had a net benefit on the UK. 

 

BTW Col, earlier post was aimed at the previous comment claiming everyone was talking in memes and soundbites - this is half of the problem though, the vast majority will just believe what they want to believe and spew it back out without understanding it, we should never have been given the vote in the first place. 

 

[Maggz]

People who work in any industry which operates internationally and are working on a management level know it will be really bad. People who understand that there is not a single country which is self sufficient know it will be really bad. And anyone which took part in any negotiations in any shape of form knows the UK will be in an inferior position when negotiating any - and this part is important - any trade deals due to the UK market size, due to the fact the UK desperately needs deals (no one else does as bad), and due to the fact that there is no allies in business and international trade, it's every man, or in this case country, for himself. 

 

The problem is, that that's a minority population wise, and anyone with any experience was dismissed by Gove and his comments about being tired of experts. Also as soon as everyone basically couldn't hide behind fake numbers the discussion focused on unelected EU officials, sovereignty, fisheries and everything else which a basic person can't even understand due to the complexity, but they can definitely have a very strong emotion around it. And when it comes to national pride for the better word and sovereignty, people are ready to sacrifice everything for it.

Which is funny as all sovereignty and pride will go out the window during US, China, India, Australia, or any other country trade negotiations. All will want concessions on healthcare, standards, visas, and everything else we're now supposedly fighting for.

 

A global world does not have room for Trumpian protectionism and nationalism. At the end of the day it'll be US, China, Russia, EU, maybe India, and everyone else fragmented. And everyone else never had any influence, power or impact on anything. They're just noise unfortunately. 

 

But I get it... emotions are a bit** and it's hard to think rationally when people are telling you everyone (EU) is out to get you

Edited March 16, 2019 by Maggz

[Andy_Muxlow]

In my opinion there should only be 1 more vote for the so called uneducated public. Deal or no deal. But again what do I know. 

[formatzero]

45 minutes ago, Andy_Muxlow said:

In my opinion there should only be 1 more vote for the so called uneducated public. Deal or no deal. But again what do I know. 

That was Noel Edmunds I think !!

[NeeZ]

On 16/03/2019 at 11:01, SuperStu said:

I was on the point 2 tip for a while, but then I considered that the major demographic who want out at any cost (the perplexing “things were great in the olden days, but obviously not so great that they didn’t change” position) will either never work again, or are very close to retirement and, better yet, have already reaped all the economic benefit. The worst that’ll happen is that their pension pots might take a dent and some food and energy price rises. Fortunately for them, pensioners are the single biggest recipients of benefits, and they vote in large numbers, so any negatives they feel will be quickly pandered to.

As a "pensioner" and a father of six children with ages from 36-21 also with one D|in law, two S/in laws I voted to remain not for my future but for my children\grand children's future . To my disgust none of my children or their partners voted in the Brexit referendum , having spoken to my friends and relations of my age the majority say the same of their families and all but one voted to remain for the same reason as I did. No doubt some "pensioners" all be it stupidly voted for the return to the "good old days", it begs the question how many of  the generation to who this is of vital importance for their future and their childrens future could be bothered to get of their a**e and vote.

Like the majority of my age group I worked from the age of 15yrs to 66yrs (1yr past retirement age) and the only "benefit I have ever collected from the state is my pension (apart from family allowance). I also paid in to a private pension which I collect and have tax deducted, so I continue to contribute to the pot!. 

I think that whatever way this farce ends the biggest loser will be democracy, and the percentage of those who vote in future national and local elections will be greatly reduced leading to more chaos in "your future".

I will now step down, and let you all continue with this divisive issue.

[GranTurismoEra]

On 16/03/2019 at 20:57, Andy_Muxlow said:

In my opinion there should only be 1 more vote for the so called uneducated public. Deal or no deal. But again what do I know. 

Bet you its a close out result still lol  

 

March in London right now calling for second referendum. The first one was a misunderstanding and a fluke  

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/world/europe/brexit-march-london.html

[TT350]

How many of you remainers are adamant that brexiteers are all racist, double digit IQ, coal mine dwelling, little Britain, swivel eyed, knuckle dragging morons who shouldnt be allowed to operate machinery intended for ages 4 and below and undergo  covert sterilization schemes?

 

I don't discuss Brexit because it's a toxic subject. 

 

I voted leave. Not because I'm racist. Not because I'm anti EU or believe we can reclaim our empire.

 

I voted leave because I KNEW it would totally catch our government sleeping. Totally complacent. It threw the cat amongst the sleeping pigeons. 

 

One things is for certain, British politicians and politics will never be the same again. They've been exposed for the bunch of arrogant, privileged, incapable idiots that they are.

 

I hope that after all this is done and dusted, as a country, we come together and we make politicians work for their wage and keep them under scrutiny and totally accountable to us.

 

Not as they are now or were. Simply on the gravy train from Eton to the benches via expenses, from grey suits to grey hair. 

 

Far, far, far too tribal and outdated and as we've seen, completely impotent in the face of any real challenge.

 

If remain had won, it would have been business as usual. But they didn't, and its exposed them.

 

My 2p

 

[The G Man]

right pal, you had no idea what Brexit was all about, you voted on a whim, you voted on what some flash Harry said.

 

before 2016, no one knew, or cared about leaving the EU.  Below is from a 16 year old, below is what it was all about, you were duped, you were sucked into what you had no idea was about to happen.  It’s a pure pile of unadulterated pooh!  Your pooh, not mine, not anyone’s but those that voted, without a clue, what was about to happen.  If you loved your country, you wouldn’t have subjected it to Brexit

 

“David Cameron made the referendum policy because he didn’t want to risk losing 10 or 15 seats to Ukip.

“And look where it has got us.

“This has always been because Tories are playing party politics with issues that are going to be huge generational changes for all of us.

 

“I am 16 years old. I didn’t get a say in Brexit and I won't get a say in it, because there is not going to be a second referendum on it as it stands.

"Either way what we have to face is this is not an issue of parties coming together, this is not an issue of direct democracy.

“This all comes back to a party putting itself before the country it’s trying to govern.”

Edited March 23, 2019 by The G Man

[NeeZ]

14 hours ago, The G Man said:

before 2016, no one knew, or cared about leaving the EU.  Below is from a 16 year old, below is what it was all about, you were duped, you were sucked into what you had no idea was about to happen.  It’s a pure pile of unadulterated pooh!  Your pooh, not mine, not anyone’s but those that voted, without a clue, what was about to happen.  If you loved your country, you wouldn’t have subjected it to Brexit

[Ekona]

If you cared about your country, you wouldn’t have subjected it to a vote into the unknown for independence without having any idea what would happen. Thankfully, common sense won that day. 

[The G Man]

Irrelevant

[Ekona]

Is it? Both votes were about departing a single entity from a larger collective, and in both cases some votes to leave were done by racists and some were done out of principle. Both votes had zero idea what it would mean to actually leave, and had zero idea just what it would mean and the difficulties involved if a vote was passed. Scotland had the pound issue as arguably the biggest problem (although ironically the EU issue was certainly a factor too), and Brexit had the NI issue and the backstop. 

 

I think theres more similarities there than you may care to admit. I’m not trying to start a row, merely pointing out your own arguments apply to both votes.