Stutopia Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 17 hours ago, docwra said: Or rather than acting like a bunch of kids they have made a reasonable decision. I didn’t fight two World Wars and one World Cup to go on holiday to foreign land with all their manky food, warm lager and jibber jabber, blooming mugs the lot of them. Two weeks sunshine on a stony, windswept Derbyshire beach is better than any of that rubbish. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 You forgot the swathes of topless women taking up all those miles of golden beaches in Johnny-ForeignerLand too. Bloody hussies, can’t they keep their clothes on?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 So much project fear everywhere you look... https://apple.news/AxyRXskHqRHy1S3mKB0EOGA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Somewhat ironic. I remember vote night and seeing Sunderland jumping for joy at getting something like 65% vote leave. Thought at the time about Nissan and jobs and like they were cheering in their own demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 hour ago, coldel said: Somewhat ironic. I remember vote night and seeing Sunderland jumping for joy at getting something like 65% vote leave. Thought at the time about Nissan and jobs and like they were cheering in their own demise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargara Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Can we please get off the bandwagon for diesel cars being pulled by manufacturers and blaming it on Brexit? Its a declining sector and has been since the whole VAG emissions thing not because of Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 The official announcement from Nissan today said a number of factors are behind the decision including Brexit, they specifically called it out. Any common sense tells you building cars in a country that potentially will be throwing up trade barriers to exporting/importing must have an effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargara Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, coldel said: The official announcement from Nissan today said a number of factors are behind the decision including Brexit, they specifically called it out. Any common sense tells you building cars in a country that potentially will be throwing up trade barriers to exporting/importing must have an effect. Yep but they announced this was being made in Sunderland after the brexit vote so whats changed then? The market demand not Brexit. That's why i said its a bandwagon thing by just tacking that label on. There is just little demand for a 7 seater diesel SUV in todays market. Edited February 3, 2019 by Sargara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 32 minutes ago, Sargara said: There is just little demand for a 7 seater diesel SUV in todays market. I think you're correct on this point ... the "small" Volvo SUV seems to be selling like hot cakes despite th £40K price tag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sargara said: Yep but they announced this was being made in Sunderland after the brexit vote so whats changed then? The market demand not Brexit. That's why i said its a bandwagon thing by just tacking that label on. There is just little demand for a 7 seater diesel SUV in todays market. What's changed is that Nissan agreed with the government that a deal would be in place and certain conditions would be there. This was well publicised. Breixters had a vision that is quite frankly unobtainable and preventing government pushing a deal brexit through. Now we are left in limbo due to very foreseeable infighting in parliament Nissan see the guarantees made by the government post vote disappear and with it any agreement on car production here. Remember the majority of cars we build are exported the UK market and various trends we see here are not indicative of global demand. This is the impact of global markets, something brexiters work hard at convincing people do not exist. The bandwagon as you call it is the head in the sand idea that brexit is not relevant to these decisions. It absolutely is a factor and leaving no deal is hugely damaging to many industries as most industry bodies have been crying out against for the last few months. Edited February 3, 2019 by coldel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 Or quite simply, the recently agreed trade deal with Japan and the EU, strange how this announcement comes so shortly after that was formalised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 The power of trading blocs eh Let's not kid ourselves. Brexit isn't responsible solely for big companies moving out. It was a factor for some under an agreed deal. Under huge uncertantity (any one with an ounce of sense knows business is built on reducing risk) like no deal and the current squabbling in parliament companies with global operations have the globe operationally to play with...it's undeniable it's a factor, it has to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargara Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ATTAK Z said: I think you're correct on this point ... the "small" Volvo SUV seems to be selling like hot cakes despite th £40K price tag https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/european-diesel-sales-fell-sharply-2018 Quote Diesel cars accounted for 35% of the total European car market, the lowest level since 2001. Maybe Volvo are bucking the trend, who knows. But the lowest levels since 2001 doesnt sound like selling like hotcakes to me. Edited February 3, 2019 by Sargara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) As I say, head in the sand... "While we have taken this decision for business reasons, the continued uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future," he added. "The future" here is key. Easy to point at diesel and pretend brexit no deal isn't important but what's next? Business decisions are made to support overarching strategies, Nissan have made a point in their statement that no deal is bad, a government can either listen and act or stick it's head in the sand and point the finger elsewhere...It's the hard brexit bandwagon in play that tries to convince people no deal doesn't matter. Hundreds of business leaders have said otherwise. To be quite frank, if you think no deal brexit has no part to play in this you have no idea on how global business operates. Edited February 3, 2019 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, coldel said: The power of trading blocs eh Let's not kid ourselves. Brexit isn't responsible solely for big companies moving out. It was a factor for some under an agreed deal. Under huge uncertantity (any one with an ounce of sense knows business is built on reducing risk) like no deal and the current squabbling in parliament companies with global operations have the globe operationally to play with...it's undeniable it's a factor, it has to be. Absolutely wont disagree it may have been "one" of the factors, however, we still have Nissan in Sunderland and no job losses Business is all about profit not risk, they have a production line in Japan already, diesels are on the out and they have just agreed a trade deal with the EU, i dont blame them at all, makes perfect business sense to me. If you know the future, you will be a wealthy man Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jetpilot said: Absolutely wont disagree it may have been "one" of the factors, however, we still have Nissan in Sunderland and no job losses Business is all about profit not risk, they have a production line in Japan already, diesels are on the out and they have just agreed a trade deal with the EU, i dont blame them at all, makes perfect business sense to me. If you know the future, you will be a wealthy man Col Risk and profit come hand in hand, any financial planning for a business involves looking at risk and assessing if you can afford worst case scenario - business thrives on certainty (as you have said if I could see the future I would be wealthy!) business cannot see the future only mitigate the risks. Of course if we had a deal with the EU which made frictionless trade with them then I am sure it would have been more likely we would have built the car here as planned. No one is saying brexit caused this, but denying it was a factor when Nissan have said it is, well thats just a head in the sand behaviour that was prevalent in the PR on both sides pre-vote. Edited February 3, 2019 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, Sargara said: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/european-diesel-sales-fell-sharply-2018 Maybe Volvo are bucking the trend, who knows. But the lowest levels since 2001 doesnt sound like selling like hotcakes to me. Was referring to the petrol (2 litre turbo) model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 So lets turn the debate on its head, is the decision not to build the car here a good sign then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, coldel said: I am sure it would have been more likely we would have built the car here as planned. No one is saying brexit caused this, but denying it was a factor when Nissan have said it is Well there you have it, some form of Brexit is happening, probably, so we will never know if Nissan would have come to the decision without the uncertainty of Brexit and the other factors have been the major contributors to their decision, personally I cant see why waiting a few weeks to see if we end up with a deal makes much difference, hence why I think the other factors mentioned have made their minds up for them, irrelevant of Brexit, Nissan say they also sell scratch proof paint, do you believe that too Of course its not a good thing, but its not a bad thing either, status quo is resumed and no job losses and until all these business start deserting the place like a sinking ship, I shall remain upbeat. Edited February 3, 2019 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoD Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Ultimately Remains will say its brexit Leavers will say its could/would of happened anyway We hit a point in 2016 where the country was and will always be split. We now have decades of its brexit fault/ it would have happened regardless. And the same people will bat the same side and nothing actually progressive happens. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I dont understand how whnn Nissan have come out and publicly stated Brexit was a factor affecting their decision people are still saying "Well, it might have happened anyway" ............. Nissan might have gone bust anyway, it doesnt change the fact that Brexit is a negative for car manufactures based in the UK. This is real, cast iron, tangible evidence of it and still people are trying to pass it off as Project Fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) “We appreciate this will be disappointing for our UK team and partners. Our workforce in Sunderland has our full confidence, and will continue to benefit from the investment planned for Juke and Qashqai.” “While we have taken this decision for business reasons, the continued uncertainty around the UK’s future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future.” Of course the EU issue is as they say is "not helping", but we are just a few weeks away, possibly, from knowing the outcome, Nissan really couldnt wait those few extra weeks to get a concept of our possible future arrangement with the EU. Ultimately Stevo's comment above is 100% on the money, so i am of till the 29th and will come back for a lot of i told you so's from one side or another! Edited February 4, 2019 by Jetpilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 They have waited 2 years for an indication on what the outcome will be and got no steer at all, another few weeks could see us with a hard brexit and no chance to change any investment decisions that have been taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I don't think its as black and white as you might think. There is space in the middle for critical observations to be made impartially. We have to accept we are leaving, ditch the second referendum idea, lets get on with it. BUT that means JRM and his other pie-in-the-sky cronies actually produce something implementable and pragmatic, so far nothing they have contributed is worth the paper its written on. Forget ideas of having all the freedoms we had before but without paying anything for them. Forget these stupid notions of not paying our dues to the EU and so on. Barclays have put in place the plan to move assets outside the UK and stated this is contingency planning for March 29th, there can be no argument here as to whether it would or would not have happened - Brexit is directly responsible. I think we have to accept in the middle ground this is a cost of Brexit, the country will see its tax income hit because of this and its a bad thing for the economy no debate to be had. The response from Brexiters should be more constructive around how we now cover losses to the countries economy, because this will always be possible - it shouldn't be denying it is having any negative effect as it's not constructive nor truthful and just creates even wider divisions making this country a weaker economic place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy_Muxlow Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 In all honesty no-one actually knows what is going to happen after the 29th march, all i know is i will get up get dressed and go to work. then at the end of the day i am going to go home and have some tea! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.