coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jetpilot said: Personally people should have been working in the background on wto deals for this very scenario, i hope thats the case! Yes they should. Although rumblings are they haven't, only in the last month have they actually been looking at this. They certainly need to get the economists involved asap, given only a few countries actually operate this way with the EU like Cuba etc. theres not much in the way of knowns to work with. WTO isn't an 'easy in' it doesnt cover some services, it also doesnt allow members to vary their trade rules either unless there is consensus, so we will be in effect bound by their rules and their constituent members requirements (hard brexiteers will fail to mention this of course as it doesn't suit their rhetoric around sovereignty) Edited December 10, 2018 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, coldel said: Then we do not need him for that, in fact we do not need a brexit secretary ............. To clarify, I hope DD steps in to fill the gap left by TM when she resigns. As you quite rightly say, we won't be needing a Brexit Secretary as such ... we haven't had one in reality for the last few months anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, ATTAK Z said: To clarify, I hope DD steps in to fill the gap left by TM when she resigns. As you quite rightly say, we won't be needing a Brexit Secretary as such ... we haven't had one in reality for the last few months anyway We are all entitled to our opinion and respect yours, mine would be that again we reward catastrophic failure with PM position seems to rub up against every fibre of my being. DD has been proven to be unequipped to work at this high level and the gold class example of the Peter Principle - he would be a disaster leading this country. Although could imagine just with him there a lot of harder right leavers would vote for the Tories with him in charge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Yes Col, again to clarify, DD for PM as a reluctant temporary measure to save a GE, then leave the EU, then sort out the Conservative party over the following couple of years before Jezza, Diane, et al have a chance to ruin the country. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Suspect TM is off to Brussels to try and rework the backstop. Thats the thing holding this deal back. To be fair its the right thing to do, but should have been done sooner, Commons defeat on this has been obvious for a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Will they renegotiate though? Everything I've read points to no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) The backstop is an odd one as its not an economic issue, its to ensure that in the event of a trade deal impasse that we can continue to trade freely with the EU across the Irish border. To be honest I would imagine the EU don't really care what is in the deal but whatever it is it has to ensure the Irish hard border doesn't appear. Note, from what I have read none of the critics of the deal have come up with an alternative. Edited December 10, 2018 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Yeah I've seen the same. Lots of; This is a terrible deal...but I don't have one better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 What a disaster, watching it live on Sky News... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I think she made a good statement. Corbyn's response was terrible. But its a big step back from 'this was the only deal' to what looks like going to the EU to look at the backstop. Unfortunately all I am watching right now are people looking to power grab in Westminster. Its all very shameful, and the speaker having to get people to shut up constantly is embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 She has just mentioned she is looking for 'assurances' so no change to the deal but some official statement from the EU around how the backstop will be implemented..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian@TORQEN Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 EU won't re-negotiate the deal, what sort of re-assurances can she get, promises? Everything has to be in the deal, black on white, from legal point. The Speaker is now forcing the government to start whatever procedures are necessarily to have a vote on postponing the vote. What if she loses the vote again? Meanwhile GBP/USD... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) Not renegotiate the deal, to seek assurances - its different. Its about clarifying and getting something in writing from the EU on what the backstop means. Yes Sky News pointed out the pound drop... ...still no single person in the house challenging it has said how to enable a borderless Irish border outside the EU. When is someone going to actually suggest a solution to something everyone is currently shooting down. Edited December 10, 2018 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Glad I bought some gold a couple of months ago 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Was Dennis Skinner drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) Maybe the EU will surprise us To be fair if it does tie us to the EU it needs sorting, how i dont know and i dont think the mps (not tyres Ekona) are wrong to oppose it, but as Adrian/Col says, it needs to be in black and white. clear and concise! However, snipes from Sturgeon and Corbyn are just quite frankly laughable. Sturgeon failed to do what she set out to do (dedicating her life to making Scotland an independent nation) and couldnt organise a prayer in a mosque and i suspect Corbyn would have been a quivering wreck and in a care home if he was pm at the moment! Edited December 10, 2018 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBorehamUK Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Meanwhile... No, no no, noo... Edited December 11, 2018 by TomBorehamUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Not sure what the guy means, angle? The mace is effectively representing the royalty without which the house cannot meet nor laws be passed it's fundamental to the governing right of parliament, it was a stupid thing to do - would he have ejected the Queen had she been stood there? I think he would have been branded a traitor to the country had he done that to her so this is no different. Edited December 11, 2018 by coldel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggz Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 On 09/12/2018 at 20:41, Jetpilot said: I am afraid to say i dont think the EU will bend at all unless they are staring down the barrel of no deal, they are playing hard ball and unified and until we are too i dont think they will give any more concessions. Seriously, why would they? If your wife says she's had enough of your @*!#, and wants a divorce, will you give her everything she wants or the bare minimum? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Maggz said: Seriously, why would they? If your wife says she's had enough of your @*!#, and wants a divorce, will you give her everything she wants or the bare minimum? And Junker has just released something to the press saying exactly that. His wording was aligned with TMs yesterday though that they will not renegotiate (which shows how naive people were to think they could vote this down and send TM back to Brussels) but he would create clarifications, which is what TM was referring to yesterday in terms of assurances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, Maggz said: Seriously, why would they? If your wife says she's had enough of your @*!#, and wants a divorce, will you give her everything she wants or the bare minimum? Good point If we were actually divorcing them and leaving without anything (hard brexit) we would be discussing the settlement figure only (as per a divorce), but we are trying to form a business deal with them, two very different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, coldel said: but he would create clarifications, which is what TM was referring to yesterday in terms of assurances. So in essence she has been very wise to pull the vote and the mp's were right to question it? fair play imho! Pending on what clarifications he gives of course. Edited December 11, 2018 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jetpilot said: Good point If we were actually divorcing them and leaving without anything (hard brexit) we would be discussing the settlement figure only (as per a divorce), but we are trying to form a business deal with them, two very different things. So we're getting a divorce but have children with shared custody?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Yes she did the right thing, but she should have done it last week instead of putting the House through a weeks worth of debate only to pull it at the last minute. It was obvious from the off that the backstop agreement was not fully understood and needed clarification. I am hoping that the EU and TM put some practicalities around the backstop procedure so its clear we cannot be indefinitely tied to the EU. More bluster from the SNP etc this morning, so many raised voices but not a single one has actually lent anything useful to the issue in terms of 'whats the alternative to the backstop'. Labour have no alternative, they just want power. Once in they will end up stuck with the same deal TM has they do not have any silver bullet that solves the NI border issue. I really enjoy following politics, to see how countries and the world is governed, but the last month has seen just how low some politicians can go. So many have nothing at heart aside from personal power grabbing, Corbyn couldn't care less about the economy, JRM DD et al just want a hard right bigoted Tory government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) No we are not getting a divorce TM as pm is trying to sort a business deal to avoid a divorce If we end up with hard brexit, yes we will be divorcing. Edited December 11, 2018 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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