Seibon Carbon Fibre UV damage issues

[Sim]

Just thought I'd post this up following a discussion on FB and see what other peoples views are on the subject.

 

I have had lots of different bits of carbon and non-carbon bodywork over the years.

 

The quality of all the carbon has been good on first inspection  and it has generally fitted well.

 

My biggest bugbear is with Seibon and the speed at which it suffers UV damage.

 

There is even a warning in their paperwork saying to keep it out of sunlight?

 

Seriously, when you are paying out for exterior car parts (and not cheap parts either), and lets be honest for most regular people, their car lives outside for most of it's life, why sell parts with substandard lacquer?

 

It's not like my car doesn't get washed and waxed regularly.

[Silverthorn]

My friend had a similar issue on his R32 with his Seibon bonnet. He's only had the bonnet for about 6-8 months and it is already beginning to show early signs of UV wear due to the very hot summer we had.

 

Quite disappointing really as I'd hoped to get a Seibon bonnet paired up with Fly1's carbon fenders but I can't justify over £1000 in outlay for it only to need repairing less than a year later

[Ekona]

If they say keep it out of sunlight, then fair enough really. At least they’re honest and up front. 

 

Same as with some wheels, they’re really meant for show use only regardless of how good the perceived quality may be. 

[AW11mike]

Hi mate, My job is to build aircraft components and use carbon fibre a lot. Carbon is very conducive and will store heat! Not a good idea to clear coat it, but it should have an epoxy gel coat to protect it.  Not sure why they use paint! The gel coat shines really nice when polished.

[docwra]

12 minutes ago, AW11mike said:

Hi mate, My job is to build aircraft components and use carbon fibre a lot. Carbon is very conducive and will store heat! Not a good idea to clear coat it, but it should have an epoxy gel coat to protect it.  Not sure why they use paint! The gel coat shines really nice when polished.

1. Yeah, Ive got carbon bits on my 135i that have been there at least 6 years and they still look fine. 
2. Who do you work for, I run an aero recruitment company with a bit of a specialism in composites

[AW11mike]

The carbon on you car is probably not painted , but gel coat like the BAC mono. I work for teledyne composites.

[Umster]

I've been fortunate enough to get some of the marking away from the top layer with polish. Risky but worked on the top coat. 

 

I've got some discolouration deeper down on my spoiler and it's just the nature of the beast? Some people recommend wet sanding it down and even redoing the clear coat. Not sure how much sense that makes. 

[AW11mike]

You can brush on some AY103 epoxy resin then polish to rejuvenate the finish and colour .wet sand then cutting compound.

[Sim]

On 15/11/2018 at 13:46, Ekona said:

If they say keep it out of sunlight, then fair enough really. At least they’re honest and up front. 

 

Same as with some wheels, they’re really meant for show use only regardless of how good the perceived quality may be. 

But it's for a car? Do they expect you to keep your car garaged and only drive it at night?

[Sim]

On 15/11/2018 at 14:12, docwra said:

1. Yeah, Ive got carbon bits on my 135i that have been there at least 6 years and they still look fine. 
2. Who do you work for, I run an aero recruitment company with a bit of a specialism in composites

I have other carbon bits on it from lots of other sources and they all look better, some show zero sign of UV damage just like you've said about your BMW bits. These are mainly Japanese but some are American.

 

Some bits show a little bit of fade but you can't really see it, it's just the Seibon stuff that is really bad.

[Sim]

On 15/11/2018 at 22:05, AW11mike said:

You can brush on some AY103 epoxy resin then polish to rejuvenate the finish and colour .wet sand then cutting compound.

I've got some paint protector conserver that works ok for short periods, will the method you suggest work long term?

 

Whats the best grade wet sand to use, 2000?

[ilogikal1]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

But it's for a car? Do they expect you to keep your car garaged and only drive it at night?

No, instead you make an informed decision about whether to buy the product knowing up front to keep it out of sunlight. If you can’t and/or unwilling to keep it out of sunlight, you don’t buy it.

 

The other manufacturers items that you have that have faded, even slightly, did any of them state upfront that their products would fade?

[AW11mike]

1 hour ago, Sim said:

I've got some paint protector conserver that works ok for short periods, will the method you suggest work long term?

 

Whats the best grade wet sand to use, 2000?

Yes, you will be putting a fresh coat of epoxy to seal the carbon, but the paint clear coat would have to be removed first. Epoxy is very stable and very strong, you can start with 800 wet then go up to 2000. I have used the same technique on jet engine acoustic panels, and found it works really well.

[Ekona]

2 hours ago, Sim said:

But it's for a car? Do they expect you to keep your car garaged and only drive it at night?

Show cars are almost exclusively kept in the garage, and the ten or twelve days they’re outside per year won’t show damage in a year or so.

[Jetpilot]

I was under the impression that gel coat has no uv protectors in (from working in the boat industry), but lacquer does, but that contradicts the people in the know above. Every year most owners "cut back" their hulls to get rid of the milky haze. 

 

I have also had carbon products clear coated, never had issues so long as its been prepped well.

 

 

[Sim]

On 17/11/2018 at 16:37, ilogikal1 said:

No, instead you make an informed decision about whether to buy the product knowing up front to keep it out of sunlight. If you can’t and/or unwilling to keep it out of sunlight, you don’t buy it.

 

The other manufacturers items that you have that have faded, even slightly, did any of them state upfront that their products would fade?

No but neither do Seibon.

 

They don't say clearly on the parts pages this part isn't for outdoor use, there aren't any clear warnings.

 

http://seiboncarbon.co.uk/products/carbon-fiber-fenders-for-2009-2010-nissan-370z-10mm-wider.html

 

If you read this page for the fenders/wings, it includes this line:

 

"For a stunning finish, our products are coated with a glossy clear coat that does not chip or flake."

 

It doesn't say but you must garage your car or if you can't leave it outside.

 

It doesn't say not for road use, it doesn't say will need additional protection.

 

Where is the UV/sunlight warning?

 

The only place I can find any reference is on the FAQ page, it really should be made clear.

 

And more to the point, why does all the rest of the carbon on my car that I look after in the same way, look so much better?

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Sim

[Sim]

On 17/11/2018 at 17:31, Ekona said:

Show cars are almost exclusively kept in the garage, and the ten or twelve days they’re outside per year won’t show damage in a year or so.

As per my reply above, it doesn't say on the Seibon parts pages, for show cars only, must be kept in a garage etc..

 

The only place there is any reference is on the FAQ page.

 

And again as per my point above, why does the Seibon stuff suffer so much more than any other parts, in spite of their claims of an amazing finish?

[Sim]

On 17/11/2018 at 17:18, AW11mike said:

Yes, you will be putting a fresh coat of epoxy to seal the carbon, but the paint clear coat would have to be removed first. Epoxy is very stable and very strong, you can start with 800 wet then go up to 2000. I have used the same technique on jet engine acoustic panels, and found it works really well.

Magic, thank you. I'll probably have a go at some point or just wrap the wings the same as I did the bonnet, I'm slightly concerned about going too deep and damaging the carbon.

[ilogikal1]

On 15/11/2018 at 12:42, Sim said:

 

There is even a warning in their paperwork saying to keep it out of sunlight?

So which is it? Either they tell you or they don’t and if they tell you it’s on you. If they don’t then that’s a different matter, but you’ve now said (twice) that they do so the simplest solution is not to buy from them anymore, surely?

[Jetpilot]

Or send it back as "not fit for purpose",

 

i would have thought the gloss clear would give you the uv protection you need, what about the product you put on headlights that stop them yellowing, the man above will advise on that one?

[ilogikal1]

Pretty much any glass coating will give UV protection for the life of the product, however given the comment about not painting carbon fibre (which I'm not going to pretend to understand as I thought there were a number entirely carbon fibre cars wearing OEM paint being manufactured since the '80's?? ) how coatings would bond the gel coat.

[Sim]

On 19/11/2018 at 14:28, ilogikal1 said:

So which is it? Either they tell you or they don’t and if they tell you it’s on you. If they don’t then that’s a different matter, but you’ve now said (twice) that they do so the simplest solution is not to buy from them anymore, surely?

That bit of paper comes with it after you've bought it.......

 

It seem underhanded and not very clear in the first place, you don't find out it should really be kept in the dark until after the warranty period by which time you've already altered it to make it fit.

 

I'm also saying why can't they use a better UV resistant clear coat or gel coat or whatever other manufacturers use or like the stuff cars are painted with that lasts for a hell of a lot longer.

 

And finally, I'm putting this up, so anyone else who decides they like the look of Seibon stuff knows the issues, isn't that point of this forum

[ilogikal1]

Oh I completely agree that if it’s a common issue then it should be made more widely known, but if they’re actually telling you how to use their products you can’t really sulk about it when you misuse them. As Jetpilot says, you send it back before fitting it if the warning is in the paperwork.

 

You’ve mentioned other carbon products from different manufacturers fading as well, how come you have named and shamed those as well? How come it’s just Seibon that’s in your sights?

[Sim]

On 20/11/2018 at 17:59, ilogikal1 said:

Oh I completely agree that if it’s a common issue then it should be made more widely known, but if they’re actually telling you how to use their products you can’t really sulk about it when you misuse them. As Jetpilot says, you send it back before fitting it if the warning is in the paperwork.

 

You’ve mentioned other carbon products from different manufacturers fading as well, how come you have named and shamed those as well? How come it’s just Seibon that’s in your sights?

Because they are the worst by such a long way, and even worse if you include the relative cost..........

[Sim]

Just thought I'd update, as I finally got round to wrapping the wings to match the bonnet but with a slightly more subtle faded version of the same print.

 

Pulse Signs in Coalville did it again and I'm very happy with it.

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by Sim