Jetpilot Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, HRAB said: I think you have missed the point I was making. At no point was I suggesting the 370 wouldn’t depreciate. In fact this whole thread has been about depreciation of the 370 and me asking why this appears to me to have happened more severely recently. I was suggesting I don’t think the 370 will depreciate in the same way as the 350....just an opinion. I get the impression people are taking this as a personal attack on their 350s. It really isn’t meant as that and I hope isn’t being seen that way. Purely speculation on pricing!! No offence taken and certainly dont consider it a personal attack and none meant to you, i dont even own a 350z anymore, however when changing cars a 370 is well within budget, but i have no desire to own one at all and maybe its relevant within the discussion of depreciation, for twice the price of a 350, its just not enough of a significant upgrade to justify that cost (to me anyway) and at that budget as mentioned before there are some proper tasty cars available which are reaching the bottom of their depreciation curve and only likely to go up if well maintained. You must have some reasons as to why your opinion believes it wont depreciate in the same way as a 350? I think the reasons about its latest knock in pricing is quite simple as mentioned elsewhere, nothing mysterious is happening, its getting old in every department, tech, performance etc etc and very much a car that will soon be obsolete, NIssan sold just over 850 of them last year in the whole of the Eu, i would hope that tells you something about the way its pricing will go and a big factor as mentioned elsewhere, the deals you can get on new high stuff is astonishing, probably doesnt help. Edited August 2, 2018 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 4 hours ago, HRAB said: I think you have missed the point I was making. At no point was I suggesting the 370 wouldn’t depreciate. In fact this whole thread has been about depreciation of the 370 and me asking why this appears to me to have happened more severely recently. I was suggesting I don’t think the 370 will depreciate in the same way as the 350....just an opinion. I get the impression people are taking this as a personal attack on their 350s. It really isn’t meant as that and I hope isn’t being seen that way. Purely speculation on pricing!! There is a reason the HRs are worth a fair bit more than a lot of DEs out there and it’s not purely age. When the 350s are a classic I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that the HRs will be more highly sought after. TBH I think youve got a bit of tunnel vision on your own point of view here, we can all see what you are saying but we dont agree with it - FWIW I dont own either car these days, I dont think Jetpilot does either so its not personal by any means. Age and model are nothing to do with it, an S13 200SX is worth more than the later S14 but less than the even later S15, and dont even get me started on Civics and Corollas. In all of these cases imports are worht more than UK cars, go figure? Early 350 values dropped rapidly as the later models came out but there isnt really any later 370, they have been dropping since day 1 and I cant see any reason why they wont get to 350 value at some point as they are broadly speaking very similar in looks, performance and image. Of all of them 350HR's are holding value pretty well, they arent just worth more than DE's, they are worth more than 370s, thats got to tell you something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 If you want to know whether a car will rise or fall in value, just wait until after I’ve bought one. That’s when values seem to drop, every single time The 350 was a return to form after the slightly damp squib of the 300, and was rightly heralded and loved by everyone when it came out. It was cool, honest, brash and cheap enough to be desirable. The 370 came out and was the wrong car at the wrong time, and whilst it has many good things about it I suspect that rose tinted spectacles won’t be half as kind to it in the minds of most outside of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipar69 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 (edited) On 01/08/2018 at 16:09, Jetpilot said: Im thinking another 8 yrs + for the 350z to go the way of the above mentioned, maybe sooner as since the early/mid 2000's there really hasnt been the choice like the 90's, i guess there is no guarantee though, but i would bet my left nut that in 8 yrs or less a 370z will be worth no more than 350z is now. Haven't looked up the numbers but I'd be surprised if the 350 is or becomes rarer than the 370. I almost never see the latter, but see the former quite regularly, often modded in what looks like quite a cheap and tatty fashion, which presumably limits long term value/appeal prospects. Edited August 2, 2018 by sipar69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 And that is where the lower number std 350's rise in value, when i was first into Rx7's they were modded to death and that was the bulk of the market, everyone wanted kitted, slammed and tuned and those were higher priced than stock, advance a few years and the value is in the cars that were left unmolested and near stock which were few and far between, during those years the modded and tatty got scraped or broken for spares or written off . I see way more 370's my way, i cant remember the last time i saw a 350 but thats neither here nor there. How often on here do you see an absolutely bone stock 350 (bar maybe an exhaust) and to be fair it doesnt really matter if they are in larger in numbers than 370's, that is no guide to whether it wont be the more popular and valuable car, its all about the car and i really cant see the 370 suddenly finding an audience that didnt want to purchase it in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanjuke Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 the laws of supply and demand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 As per the op's thread then, demand obviously isnt there now (same as new) as prices are dropping, so where is this new found demand going to come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 It'll come from folks wanting a big front engined naturally aspirated, 6 speed manual rwd sports car. A combination already rare to be had out the showroom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy1980 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 12 hours ago, Jetpilot said: And that is where the lower number std 350's rise in value, when i was first into Rx7's they were modded to death and that was the bulk of the market, everyone wanted kitted, slammed and tuned and those were higher priced than stock, advance a few years and the value is in the cars that were left unmolested and near stock which were few and far between, during those years the modded and tatty got scraped or broken for spares or written off . I see way more 370's my way, i cant remember the last time i saw a 350 but thats neither here nor there. How often on here do you see an absolutely bone stock 350 (bar maybe an exhaust) and to be fair it doesnt really matter if they are in larger in numbers than 370's, that is no guide to whether it wont be the more popular and valuable car, its all about the car and i really cant see the 370 suddenly finding an audience that didnt want to purchase it in the first place. This makes me quite proud to say I own a bone stock 05 DE with 33k on it Only got a mopedmark gear stick and a D1 throttle controller. In 8 years or so i'll be a millionaire :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 ^ if that's the way you enjoy ownership, that's great for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy1980 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 minute ago, davey_83 said: ^ if that's the way you enjoy ownership, that's great for you Hahah tbh, im quite bored of it and have been pondering molesting it with a rebuild and supercharger.... I just know that's a £12,000 investment i'll never see a return on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justthejedi Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 The 370z got off to a bad start don't forget....just as the banks crashed the world's economy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 13 hours ago, davey_83 said: It'll come from folks wanting a big front engined naturally aspirated, 6 speed manual rwd sports car. A combination already rare to be had out the showroom. That makes perfect sense for us lot on a big front engine naturally aspirated etc etc forum, but the reality is we are few and far between, so in essence you and nj are right but the reverse, it is all about supply and demand, but the supply is bigger than the demand and in the majority of cases anyone wanting the above will be out buying M3's as an example which are a far superior car and a pretty safe bet that they will appreciate way sooner than any of jdm cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) Yes however come Japfest somehow we rock up in 100+ zeds every year....... We currently aren't choosing M3's so......... I think what can have an influence on car prices 20+ years after they've stopped being made is not only the car itself but the story along with it. I think the 350z has a real story behind it. It sold in the bucket loads all over the globe for a reason. It helped jump start performance Nissan's again after the R34 GTR production had ended and there'd possibly be no 370z ( or similar) or R35 GTR had the 350z not did as well as it did for Nissan. It was and is a major success story for the company and I'm happy to be proven wrong if the 370z has a better tale. The Mk6 Golf GTi is probably better than the Mk5 in every measurable way, however it'll be the Mk5 that will be remembered for kick starting the GTi off gain for VW. Tbf already the Mk6 is overshadowed by the MK5, in another 5 yrs and I doubt the mk6 will be the one to buy. Edited August 3, 2018 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Shock news, 100 Jap car fans in the UK don’t buy an M3 I very much doubt the minuscule amount the 350 bought in had anything to do with bringing the GTR back, bearing in mind how long cars take to design and when the prototypes were first shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 7 hours ago, davey_83 said: Yes however come Japfest somehow we rock up in 100+ zeds every year....... We currently aren't choosing M3's so......... I think what can have an influence on car prices 20+ years after they've stopped being made is not only the car itself but the story along with it. I think the 350z has a real story behind it. It sold in the bucket loads all over the globe for a reason. It helped jump start performance Nissan's again after the R34 GTR production had ended and there'd possibly be no 370z ( or similar) or R35 GTR had the 350z not did as well as it did for Nissan. It was and is a major success story for the company and I'm happy to be proven wrong if the 370z has a better tale. The Mk6 Golf GTi is probably better than the Mk5 in every measurable way, however it'll be the Mk5 that will be remembered for kick starting the GTi off gain for VW. Tbf already the Mk6 is overshadowed by the MK5, in another 5 yrs and I doubt the mk6 will be the one to buy. Sorry Davey, you are totally clutching at straws if you think the 350 had anything to do with a new gtr being released. When i was looking for my first 350 a few years back an e46 m3 was in budget, it wasnt that far away in price, a couple of grand, but i really didnt want one and here is the kicker though, you have to be put emotion aside. A quick look on ph shows the cheapest e46 m3 at £8k (twice what you can get a 350z for), others at £20k +, thats 02/03 cars, when did you last see a 350z at £20k. E92 m3 prices havent really moved for a couple of years at £14k, they have reached the bottom of their depreciation curve and perhaps another insight into why there is no reason a 350z wont be worth more than a 370z in the future seeing as e46 m3 can cost more. As per the op's thread, 370z prices are still falling, sorry dude, that tells you all you need to know about the way its heading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAB Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, Jetpilot said: Sorry Davey, you are totally clutching at straws if you think the 350 had anything to do with a new gtr being released. When i was looking for my first 350 a few years back an e46 m3 was in budget, it wasnt that far away in price, a couple of grand, but i really didnt want one and here is the kicker though, you have to be put emotion aside. A quick look on ph shows the cheapest e46 m3 at £8k (twice what you can get a 350z for), others at £20k +, thats 02/03 cars, when did you last see a 350z at £20k. E92 m3 prices havent really moved for a couple of years at £14k, they have reached the bottom of their depreciation curve and perhaps another insight into why there is no reason a 350z wont be worth more than a 370z in the future seeing as e46 m3 can cost more. As per the op's thread, 370z prices are still falling, sorry dude, that tells you all you need to know about the way its heading. I don’t agree. I love the E92 M3, it was different and linked into a slightly different market. I might just add that there have always been other rival brands out there for the 370. I love that the 370 looks unique on the road, I rarely ever see them. Realistically although the M3 is a great car, visually it gets lost in the sea of other BMWs currently on the road. Of course the 370 is still falling, I think everyone expected that. What has shocked me is I felt there was a steady decline before but in the past year seen sellers dropping prices by a fair bit more. The most popular model to sell is not necassarily the one that turns into the valuable classic. What I will say is that there is always an exception to the rule. When speculating on future values of a model of car you may not include special editions, car used in a movie or owned by a famous person (I know those are the obvious ones). Certain model variants could be included though potentially. How many HRs are out there and how many are worth that top end price. Then compare that to the vast majority of 350s on the road, what their values are. Are HRs an exception to the rule? I think Davey has a strong point with the history of the 350. People do like a story connected with the model and I agree the 370 probably doesn’t have that. I do think that having fewer 370s on the road already will make a big difference. People keep talking about supply and demand. Even when demand appears small (as it is with a lot of classics.....the general populas are not out to buy classics) the supply of the 370 is also low. Or at least it will be when the next model comes out. May find that it balances out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 20 hours ago, Jetpilot said: That makes perfect sense for us lot on a big front engine naturally aspirated etc etc forum, but the reality is we are few and far between, so in essence you and nj are right but the reverse, it is all about supply and demand, but the supply is bigger than the demand and in the majority of cases anyone wanting the above will be out buying M3's as an example which are a far superior car and a pretty safe bet that they will appreciate way sooner than any of jdm cars. The point I was trying to make is while to sum the M3 might be a better car, a better car doesn't mean every sports car owner is going to look to buy an M3. It's currently not the case so it's only speculation that will happen in the future for one particular make. And I do believe the success not the 350z has helped Nissan with the project before the R35 GTR. As does every manufacturers previous performance car, help the next model inline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, davey_83 said: The point I was trying to make is while to sum the M3 might be a better car, a better car doesn't mean every sports car owner is going to look to buy an M3. It's currently not the case so it's only speculation that will happen in the future for one particular make. And I do believe the success not the 350z has helped Nissan with the project before the R35 GTR. As does every manufacturers previous performance car, help the next model inline. Ive agreed with you dude, an M3 was in budget but i wanted a 350 (i am that man you describe), but no matter the romantic ideal of wanting a lesser car imho more characterful, i thought my my 350s were a pleasure to own, you cannot escape the facts and you only have to look at M3 prices now, opinions of being visually lost on the road has absolutely zero bearing on current prices or demand, surely that is clear, argue the merits of each car all day if you like and they were direct competition by the way but thats a completely different topic. We are talking values and demand and its clear because of the M3's prices in comparison to either z where that demand lies, there is no speculation, it is just the case plain and simple. Or lets ask another question, is there any Nissan Z car worth more than its counterpart M series? I will save you the time, No. Hrab you are right, there is always an exception to the rule, NSX is a good example, low sales but now an appreciating classic and i shall choose my words carefully, if you honestly think the 370z has the merit of the NSX to break the rules, go buy a few and see how you get on in a few years. Regarding the HR, it is the best and last incarnation, thats where its value lies, same as the Spirit R Rx7. Edited August 4, 2018 by Jetpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nissanman312 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 E46 m3s are getting rare now as well as there's a lot of amuture racers buying and tracking and crashing them The e46 was twice the price of the 350 anyway so I'd expect it to be better/worth more now I bought a 370 as I'd never owned a 350 but if I had a 350 I wouldn't see a 370 as a worthwhile jump I don't think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 On 03/08/2018 at 12:31, Jetpilot said: M3's as an example which are a far superior car Please explain as I don't see this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 In every measurable way, they are. Better chassis, better engine, better gearbox, faster point to point and round corners, higher quality parts etc. You our may not prefer it personally because generic BMW, but it’s the better car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) Better engine, gearbox, chassis, interior, trim Beaten to it Edited August 4, 2018 by Jetpilot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAB Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Jetpilot said: Ive agreed with you dude, an M3 was in budget but i wanted a 350 (i am that man you describe), but no matter the romantic ideal of wanting a lesser car imho more characterful, i thought my my 350s were a pleasure to own, you cannot escape the facts and you only have to look at M3 prices now, opinions of being visually lost on the road has absolutely zero bearing on current prices or demand, surely that is clear, argue the merits of each car all day if you like and they were direct competition by the way but thats a completely different topic. We are talking values and demand and its clear because of the M3's prices in comparison to either z where that demand lies, there is no speculation, it is just the case plain and simple. Or lets ask another question, is there any Nissan Z car worth more than its counterpart M series? I will save you the time, No. Hrab you are right, there is always an exception to the rule, NSX is a good example, low sales but now an appreciating classic and i shall choose my words carefully, if you honestly think the 370z has the merit of the NSX to break the rules, go buy a few and see how you get on in a few years. Regarding the HR, it is the best and last incarnation, thats where its value lies, same as the Spirit R Rx7. I think you are mixing current demand with the speculated demand that we are talking about. I’m not suggesting a 370 is going to be an NSX “like” future classic. (Damn I want an NSX now). Purely talking about that I don’t think the 370 will hit the same low as the 350. I’ve not looked at how many HRs were sold in comparison to the others. What proportion of HRs make up the 350s currently on road? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davey_83 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Ekona said: In every measurable way, they are. Better chassis, better engine, better gearbox, faster point to point and round corners, higher quality parts etc. You our may not prefer it personally because generic BMW, but it’s the better car. Whilst on the subject, I do struggle to see the 'far superior' car thought pattern. Just to add I've sat behind a M3 being driven very well round Silverstone national and it weren't getting away at all. Similar weight and giving up cicra 60hp, I weren't blown away. Also around the Nurburgring taking into consideration acceleration, braking, high speed corners, low speed corners - it's all of 4 seconds faster over the 13 miles..... Reliability, we all know the horror stories of the S54 and rear subframe. It's not a far superior car. Subjective I know, but they don't sound a patch on the VQ35 either.... Either the Z33 goes rounds bends faster or is better on the brakes. Saying as i see it..... Edited August 4, 2018 by davey_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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