Anyone Turbo/supercharge using oem bits?

[san marino blue]

Hi,

Forgive me if this has been asked before, I am sure it has, but I can't find a thread

I have a VQ35HR, engine Z.

I would like to supercharge or turbo it, but the cost of the off the shelf kits is basically too expensive for me to consider.

My son runs a Nissan Colt CZT, which is already turbo'd standard, but running a larger EVO turbo which is now at 225bhp at the wheels. A 50% increase in power

It was pretty easy to do and with bigger injectors, fuel pump exhaust and a remap we came in at about a grand, result.

My question is this;

Has anyone used a stock pair of turbos or a supercharger from another car on a Z?

I know it will take a fair bit of engineering and fabricating, but I am fine with this.

The car is not my daily transport, so if it takes 12months it's not a problem.

Evo, Scooby etc turbos are cheap as chips, as are Jag XJR superchargers and Mercedes compressors.

As it's basically just a case of getting more air and therefore fuel into the cylinders, surely this would work?

I'm looking at 400-450bhp ideally.

Obviously it's an expensive mistake if it blows my motor, so I really don't want to start experimenting and find I burn holes in my valves or pistons, or worse.

I know there are more components than just the compressors, that's not really a problem, I can fabricate and machine stuff, plus there are loads of off the shelf bits available to do this.

By all means tell me I am completely wrong and why, but if anyone knows someone who has done it successfully I'd be really interested to know what they used.

 

 

[ZMANALEX]

It is possible to make most parts fit if you are prepared to put the hours in and you have the engineering and mechanical skills required to carry out such a project, however, labour wise it will not be cost effective.

I recently sold a pair of turbos and a supercharger from my DE 350Z on here, but these are usually hard to find items.

Regards longevity, providing it gets a full and proper tune etc, then you should not experience any failures unless you are negligent.

Hope this helps.

 

https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/120759-soldfor-sale-procharger-c2-supercharger-blower/

 

 

https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/120769-soldfor-sale-pair-hks-2530-turbos/

 

Good luck,

 

Alex.

[san marino blue]

Thanks,

That is exactly my logic on this one.

Basically I am not afraid of doing the job and I know it will take me time, a bit of head scratching, welding and machining, plus loads of tea.

Plus probably the odd moment when I wonder why the hell I started this in the first place!!!!

Subaru turbos are less than £200, so I am thinking a pair of these, one each bank, as the scooby is 2litre, about 230bhp and single turbo, so two on a 3.5litre at 450bhp should be about right ?

I also agree that it would be the map or engine management that would stop it all going wrong and that's the really clever bit.

In my way of thinking, all I have to do is build an exhaust to accommodate the turbo, duct in some air, pipe out the charge, cool it down (intercooler) add some charge control (Waste gate) and pipe the whole lot up into the plenum.

Simple.

Be in the pub for lunchtime....….

The only problem I can see with the Z is space under the bonnet.

It is tight under there, but I was one of the first to do the dreaded timing chain oil gallery gasket leak on a HR,  before it was common knowledge, so I know my way around these things and they aren't that scary when you take the front off them

Surely it can't be that easy, or someone else would have done it by now?

[.:Bullen:.]

I have done pretty much what your saying although I started with a JWT LHD twin turbo kit from the states. 

 

The only bits bits I was able to use was the turbos, intercooler basically.  All the piping was custom, manifolds custom, fuel lines, exhaust, oil lines, coolant lines, fuel pump, bigger sump etc etc 

 

its a lot & I mean a lot of work it took me 3months of 6hours a night on and off there is a reason why garages charge the Earth because the labour you put in will be ridiculous.

 

also on cost the little parts mount up it’s the jic fittings that surprise you the most ha 

 

but if you do undertake it good luck and you will enjoy it in the end I’m now running 420bhp safely touch wood for the past 3years. 

[san marino blue]

Thanks

I totally appreciate all of this and as I say, if it takes 18months, it's not a problem.

Ebay has Subaru turbos new at £125....How good they are is another matter, but even if you pay a bit more for known quality ones then it's still mega cheap.

Intercoolers aren't too bad, I am thinking of using two small ones, rather than one big one, better cooling and easier to hide

I realise I will have two turbos handed the same, but I think if I can get the high pressure outputs both pointing up, then it won't make much odds.

I have a mate who is a welder so the hard pipes are no problem, the rest is flexi silicon, again good ole Ebay

I am a maintenance engineer, so have access to lathes and a miller and am pretty good on machining.

I will replace the exhaust as it's stock, a guy round here is brilliant at custom systems at reasonable prices.

One other question, how does the standard Manifold flow with a Turbo?

Will I need a tubular high flow one, or will modifying the flanges to fit the turbo work out ok?

How much boost will I need to get to 450bhp?

[.:Bullen:.]

You will need to make a new manifold per side, no chance modifying existing ones as mainly they are cast so near on impossible to weld unless you brase & secondly won’t flow as well. 

 

The main thing that worry’s me about your build is you are already considering £150 turbos?! You want a decent set of Garrett B.B. or similar turbos for efficiency.  These alone will sting you close on the end of £2k.  If you buy second hand you can send them off for a refurb but If your worried about price do not take on this build as it isn’t cheap & if you do cheap out it will just be a waste of time re doing stuff. 

 

I speak from experience I tried to cheap out on hoses & clamps and in the end just cost me more time re doing them and the danger the oil hose was going to split or leaking. 

 

 

[san marino blue]

Fair comment on the cheap turbos, this is really a tentative throw it out there, just to get a feel for what I want to do.

I thought the same at £150, they are fairly unlikely to stay together long

I may use Genuine Subaru ones and either refurb used or look at the cost of new, not sure yet, will need more research.

The manifold I know would be difficult to weld as you say cast isn't easy, but I was thinking of using it as a whole and making adapter plates for the turbo to fit the standard flanges.

Space may stop this working anyway, but it's an idea

I just don't know if it would flow well enough without being tubular.

I know throwing money at anything gets results, but this on the face of it looks a more budget friendly approach.

At £6500 plus, for the turbo kit, I'd better off selling the car and investing in something else with more BHP to be honest

 

[andybp]

the biggest problem will be squeezing it all in, twin turbo's and pipework is pretty tight this is one of the better documented builds which shows a lot of the issues you will face and he started with a second hand tt kit

and what he ended up with was very impressive

single front mount turbo kits are simpler although the pipework is still a pain or my choice which was rearmount

 

 

which is the most DIY able but none of them are what I would call easy or straight forward

[san marino blue]

Thanks for the links.

Really what I needed to start making a few decisions.

I hadn't considered a single turbo.

I'll certainly take a look at that

I'm not ruling out a supercharger either, the Jag ones can be bought cheap enough.

No thought gone into this yet, so that might be a stupid idea, but worth considering all the same

What you say is pretty much what I thought.

I know space is tight, it always is on these cars.

I'm going into this with no expectation of it being easy and certainly not a straight bolt in, slam the bonnet and annoy the local 911 brigade.

I think, hope, this will give me a turbo car at a reasonable price.

As Z dedicated has said, it is fool hardy to expect to do this job on a pittance, but I do think with some ingenuity, engineering,, time and patience I could build something very good at an affordable price, using decent bits

My next move will be to remove the front of the car and see exactly what space I have and what I can reasonably get in there.

I know I need to keep my air tracts short and as balanced as possible, both sides, so this will come into play.

Once I have decided on what turbos will actually fit, I think getting everything else in there will just be big, infuriating, Tetris

luckily I have a garage the size of a barn, so space isn't a problem.

Any other advice really appreciated

[andybp]

4 minutes ago, san marino blue said:

Thanks for the links.

Really what I needed to start making a few decisions.

I hadn't considered a single turbo.

I'll certainly take a look at that

I'm not ruling out a supercharger either, the Jag ones can be bought cheap enough.

No thought gone into this yet, so that might be a stupid idea, but worth considering all the same

What you say is pretty much what I thought.

I know space is tight, it always is on these cars.

I'm going into this with no expectation of it being easy and certainly not a straight bolt in, slam the bonnet and annoy the local 911 brigade.

I think, hope, this will give me a turbo car at a reasonable price.

As Z dedicated has said, it is fool hardy to expect to do this job on a pittance, but I do think with some ingenuity, engineering,, time and patience I could build something very good at an affordable price, using decent bits

My next move will be to remove the front of the car and see exactly what space I have and what I can reasonably get in there.

I know I need to keep my air tracts short and as balanced as possible, both sides, so this will come into play.

Once I have decided on what turbos will actually fit, I think getting everything else in there will just be big, infuriating, Tetris

luckily I have a garage the size of a barn, so space isn't a problem.

Any other advice really appreciated

the superchargers fitted to the jags/mercs are all eaton and quite big similar to what stillen used and means major bonnet mods but they are available pretty cheap 2nd hand

[ZMANALEX]

Plenty room at the front, however, you are severely restricted for space down the sides where the turbos go, so everything is shoehorned in I am afraid.

 

Just to give you an idea, here are a couple of shots of my twin turbo setup.

 

 

[san marino blue]

Very nice and thanks.

That's the sort of finish I'm aiming for.

Going to invest in a two post lift next month, get her off the ground and start to have a good look and do some measurements.

Guy down the road has a reasonably new Scooby, so I'll go talk nicely to him and see if he'll let me have a look at his turbo.

Not a euphemism!!!!!!

I think this is certainly a possibility, either twin or single turbo

Anyone else with any turbo build picks, or words of wisdom, I'd be most grateful 

[Jetpilot]

If its something you really want to do, go for it, i love the enthusiasm 

 

If you just want to end up with a fi'd 350, i reckon it would still work out cheaper just buying one already done and running that you can enjoy from day 1, or, source a 2nd hand rear mount kit from the usa forums. You will be surprised how much things cost that you hadnt even considered, mapping for example at £500.

 

I bought my supercharged 350 with less than 200 miles on it since built, for well lets it put it like this, i had an invoice for customs duties from the previous owner for the kit that was more than the extra over a std 350.

 

Good luck though if you go for it 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Jetpilot

[ZMANALEX]

Plenty FI guys on here: 

 

Check out this list.

 

https://www.350z-uk.com/topic/66265-official-list-of-uk-fi-zeds/

 

[san marino blue]

Thanks 

I'll bear all this in mind.

You are right all the little things do add up as with any job and it is usually cheaper to buy an already done car

However me and the Z have gone through quite a bit together and I am attached to her.

She's a 313 convertible by the way

I bought her with virtually no oil pressure, before anyone much knew about the dreaded oil gasket problem and sorted that out

I quite like the idea of doing it myself as well, without a kit of bits.

I've never been afraid of moding stuff or rebuilding engines or cars

I used to rally a 16valve pinto'd Sunbeam, that had more Ford bits in it than it had Talbot 

I also had a small block Chevy engined TR7/8, which I did myself that went like hell, so this is right up my street.

I do like it when people look at your car and asked who did the work?

 

[zelda]

On 29/07/2018 at 13:41, andybp said:

the superchargers fitted to the jags/mercs are all eaton and quite big

 

Is that the same for the ones found in V8 range rovers? I was just looking at these for fun..

[andybp]

23 hours ago, zelda said:

 

Is that the same for the ones found in V8 range rovers? I was just looking at these for fun..

I'm pretty sure the older jag/range rover were Eaton M112 but I don't know about later ones