Anyone had their zed engine carbon cleaned?

[W8BGS]

As above. I am curious about getting my 2010 370z done, its covered approx 61k miles and it regularly has the revs drop when coming to a stop and it feels like its going to stall. Its had the gallery gasket changed by Horsham Developments last year so it shouldn’t be that. I have spoken with a local carbon cleaning company, they use hydrogen to remove excess carbon build up, not harsh chemicals.

 

I’m tempted, but not been able to see a single review of anyone with a 350 or 370z having had it done. Has anyone had the process done?

[Davectr]

I’ve not had my 370 done but recently had my evoque done (2.2 diesel) and saw quite a decent improvement - 15bhp / 35Nm increase and improved driveability, too early to say if fuel economy has improved much. It’s a friend who does this and he’s getting a lot of local business (North East) through word of mouth as, on the face of it, hydrogen cleaning does appear to work

[Ekona]

As with any engine cleaning, you have two schools of thought:

 

1. Do it. It'll clean all the crap out and you'll have a nice shiny engine.

2. Don't do it. Pulling off all that carbon may actually create issues if some gets stuck or take part of the block with it or it might even have been sealing a crack in there. Leave it alone.

 

Now I've not done the carbon cleaning on any engines, but I have used oil flush chemicals before on previous cars. I had no issues, but unless you've found a company who will warrant that engine for at least a year (and tbh if I was them I wouldn't!) then personally speaking my own comfort of risk says leave it alone. I also don't use oil flushes any more either for the same reason.

[W8BGS]

I’m getting pretty fed up with the car at the moment, need this idle sorted. My Mrs TT currently has a leaking water pump too. Bloody cars. 

 

Might have to contact Jez at H-Dev and see if he has any thoughts on it.

[JackJabba]

On 02/05/2018 at 13:21, Davectr said:

I’ve not had my 370 done but recently had my evoque done (2.2 diesel) and saw quite a decent improvement - 15bhp / 35Nm increase and improved driveability, too early to say if fuel economy has improved much. It’s a friend who does this and he’s getting a lot of local business (North East) through word of mouth as, on the face of it, hydrogen cleaning does appear to work

So you had the car on the dyno before and after?

 

[docwra]

Had the inlet on my 135i walnut blasted and definitely noticed an improvement, dont know if Id have the whole engine done as per Ekonas comments. 

[Davectr]

22 hours ago, JackJabba said:

So you had the car on the dyno before and after?

 

Yes, he checked before the clean, after the clean then again after he mapped it

[W8BGS]

Cheers all. I think the issue is coil related, so going to get them replaced

[LukeA]

I’ve had no problems with hydrogen cleaning my engine. In fact I have a hydrogen kit in my 350z that produces hydrogen and puts it into the air intake. It’s starts producing hydrogen from when I start the car till when I turn it off. I’ve had the car since January 2017 and had the kit installed the whole time and I haven’t had any problems. Wouldn’t hurt to get it cleaned unless your that worried about causing problems

[Ekona]

7 hours ago, LukeA said:

I’ve had no problems with hydrogen cleaning my engine. In fact I have a hydrogen kit in my 350z that produces hydrogen and puts it into the air intake. It’s starts producing hydrogen from when I start the car till when I turn it off. I’ve had the car since January 2017 and had the kit installed the whole time and I haven’t had any problems.

Do I need a whoosh parrot here or something? You have a what installed?

[LukeA]

24 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Do I need a whoosh parrot here or something? You have a what installed?

 basically a small tank in engine bay filled with de-ionised water that takes hydrogen from water and puts it into engine

i had an RX8 before and there was a lot of talk about hydrogen helping with the engine and keeping it clean. It was there to help a tiny bit with low down torque but nothing amazing since the car had none pretty much anyway  I figured why not take it off the RX8 and stick it on the zed but didn’t really notice any difference

[LRF4N]

Is it bad that I googled whoosh parrot before the hydrogen thing?

[Ekona]

8 hours ago, LukeA said:

 basically a small tank in engine bay filled with de-ionised water that takes hydrogen from water and puts it into engine

i had an RX8 before and there was a lot of talk about hydrogen helping with the engine and keeping it clean. It was there to help a tiny bit with low down torque but nothing amazing since the car had none pretty much anyway  I figured why not take it off the RX8 and stick it on the zed but didn’t really notice any difference

I just had a look into that stuff. Basically it's meant for diesel engines above anything else, as it encourages a lean burn to potentially save fuel and in theory it'll turn from hydrogen into water as a byproduct of the combustion process to lower engine temps/EGT.

 

In theory.

 

Given the potential benefit vs potential risk, so a bit of fuel saved vs melting pistons by running unexpectedly lean, as well as the complete lack of any independant research into it on diesel engines (which is what it's designed for!) rather than petrol engines, I'd be filing this firmly under snake oil and removing it from the car pronto. Incidentally the few pages I've read about hydrogen injection refer to it being only of benefit at high rpm, which would indicate a relative lack of involvement in helping mid-range torque and certainly it's not going to be doing a damn thing unless you specifically map for it.

[LukeA]

9 hours ago, Ekona said:

I just had a look into that stuff. Basically it's meant for diesel engines above anything else, as it encourages a lean burn to potentially save fuel and in theory it'll turn from hydrogen into water as a byproduct of the combustion process to lower engine temps/EGT.

 

In theory.

 

Given the potential benefit vs potential risk, so a bit of fuel saved vs melting pistons by running unexpectedly lean, as well as the complete lack of any independant research into it on diesel engines (which is what it's designed for!) rather than petrol engines, I'd be filing this firmly under snake oil and removing it from the car pronto. Incidentally the few pages I've read about hydrogen injection refer to it being only of benefit at high rpm, which would indicate a relative lack of involvement in helping mid-range torque and certainly it's not going to be doing a damn thing unless you specifically map for it.

It’s only a small amount nothing manager and managed by amount that can be produced. The amount being produced isn’t enough to cause problems for anything. 

There was a lot of testing for it and experiments and I understand it can be seen as snake oil but it worked for me but every has their own opinions on it 

 

It has no effect on high rpm’s, on the RX8 I noticed a difference with low down torque and that was it, nothing amazing just tiny bit better for the car. 

 

[Ekona]

If there’s evidence, post it up. The only info I could find had zero evidence and claims it was only useful at high rpm, which makes sense given it’s trying to reduce intake temps the same way as water injection. 

 

If it cant cause problems, I’d suggest it’s not capable of producing results either. Do you have dyno graphs before and after? Was the car mapped for it? Which kit did you have?

[LukeA]

http://www.projectrx8.co.uk/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?470

 

i haven’t done any tests on the zed or heard of any being done. As far as I’m aware I’m the only person with this kit on a zed. 

[Ekona]

Thanks. Precious little info there though, I was after details like what is the kit, and most importantly was the car mapped for it?

[LukeA]

4 hours ago, Ekona said:

Thanks. Precious little info there though, I was after details like what is the kit, and most importantly was the car mapped for it?

 

I bought the kit from http://www.hydrogenhybrids.uk.com/rotary-engines/

 

and the car was not mapped the kit was just bolted on

[Ekona]

Hang on a mo...

 

The dyno graph on that company's website is the exact one you linked to earlier. So was that your car they did that to then?

 

And after a bit more digging, I found that Mazda once created a proper hydrogen RX8, not just an injection device: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mazda/mazda-rx-8-hydrogen-re-2007-review/ . If you read that in detail, it explains why a rotary can take hydrogen better than a conventional 4 stroke engine (which is good, and not something I'd thought of), but it also shows that using hydrogen meant that power nearly halves from 192bhp to 107bhp, and a similar drop with torque from 162lb/ft to 103lb/ft. Now obviously there's a difference running an engine entirely on hydrogen to simply injecting a smidge into the combustion chamber, but this isn't helping prove anything here in terms of extra power.

 

Go to the test results page at http://www.hydrogenhybrids.uk.com/test-results/ and have a read of the 'facts'. You have one letter from a biology teacher with the most god-awful evaluation of his test and evidence that I've ever seen, and even his own results show that immediately prior to the install on two occasions he got better fuel economy than on 6 out of 7 runs after the install. The bike and Focus power tests are a joke, as the bike showed a whopping 1bhp increase (which anyone who's done a dyno will know you can easily get between runs anyway) and the Focus a whole 3bhp more which is a whopping 2% increase on max powerzzz!!!!11

 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

 

I mean, fair play to you for trying but I'm not convinced this is anything other than all in your mind in terms of any difference at all. Out of curiosity, what did your insurance company say when you told them about the install?

[ilogikal1]

40 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Stuff

You've got too much free time on your hands.

[Ekona]

Says the man with a billion word essay on which bucket is best to contain the water to wash your car with  

[ilogikal1]

[LukeA]

9 hours ago, Ekona said:

Hang on a mo...

 

The dyno graph on that company's website is the exact one you linked to earlier. So was that your car they did that to then?

 

And after a bit more digging, I found that Mazda once created a proper hydrogen RX8, not just an injection device: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/mazda/mazda-rx-8-hydrogen-re-2007-review/ . If you read that in detail, it explains why a rotary can take hydrogen better than a conventional 4 stroke engine (which is good, and not something I'd thought of), but it also shows that using hydrogen meant that power nearly halves from 192bhp to 107bhp, and a similar drop with torque from 162lb/ft to 103lb/ft. Now obviously there's a difference running an engine entirely on hydrogen to simply injecting a smidge into the combustion chamber, but this isn't helping prove anything here in terms of extra power.

 

Go to the test results page at http://www.hydrogenhybrids.uk.com/test-results/ and have a read of the 'facts'. You have one letter from a biology teacher with the most god-awful evaluation of his test and evidence that I've ever seen, and even his own results show that immediately prior to the install on two occasions he got better fuel economy than on 6 out of 7 runs after the install. The bike and Focus power tests are a joke, as the bike showed a whopping 1bhp increase (which anyone who's done a dyno will know you can easily get between runs anyway) and the Focus a whole 3bhp more which is a whopping 2% increase on max powerzzz!!!!11

 

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

 

I mean, fair play to you for trying but I'm not convinced this is anything other than all in your mind in terms of any difference at all. Out of curiosity, what did your insurance company say when you told them about the install?

No that wasn’t my car they used, there was a massive debate over on the RX8 owners club about whether it works or snake oil. To start with I thought it was bs but decided to give it ago and I noticed a tiny increase on low down torque on the rx8 but on the zed you wouldn’t even think it was there. 

 

Personally I wouldn’t recommend it unless you had a rotary and wanted minimal gains that you barely notice. You get naff all out of it for £400 

My insurance company saw it as a “performance mod” once I explained it