Jetpilot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 And take a look at the American market for a relative guide on whats good, the 350z sold 36728 into the US in its best year, compared to a best year of just 10215 for the 370z. The 350z was definitely a good seller. Ekona is on the money, we are a fraction of sales, its whatever is going to appeal to the yanks if you want to see which way the 370z will go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 http://carsalesbase.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) yeah my bad 7k in Europe for 350z compared to 2k for the 370z. Even though Alpines a european car looks set to hit close to 2000 for first year. About right for modern day niche market. God bless America. Down to Europe or UK alone this car gets canned. Edited January 9, 2019 by GranTurismoEra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said: Down to Europe or UK alone this car gets canned. Its got to get started first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) Nissan just announced the next Leaf, 230 miles EPA range from 62kWh battery, 160KW motor - bare in mind EV motors have vritually no transmission power loss, UK prices seem to be £37k after the EV grant. https://insideevs.com/nissan-reveals-leaf-e-plus-ces/ If Nissan was feeling really brave they would put a much more aero coupe body on the drivetrain - which will enable 250mile+ EPA range. Make it AWD with over 400bhp WHP, put in some proper battery cooling and put a sticker price of £50-55k, so undercutting the iPace and top spec Model 3. Stick on an Infiniti badge if they think that would help....but it would take some bravery to introduce such a car on the brinks of a global turn down. Still I suspect it will sell far better than the current 370z and GTR combined, need for extra childs seat excluded I would buy one. Edited January 9, 2019 by gangzoom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 So basically not a Leaf, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, gangzoom said: Nissan just announced the next Leaf, 230 miles EPA range from 62kWh battery, 160KW motor - bare in mind EV motors have vritually no transmission power loss, UK prices seem to be £37k after the EV grant. https://insideevs.com/nissan-reveals-leaf-e-plus-ces/ If Nissan was feeling really brave they would put a much more aero coupe body on the drivetrain - which will enable 250mile+ EPA range. Make it AWD with over 400bhp WHP, put in some proper battery cooling and put a sticker price of £50-55k, so undercutting the iPace and top spec Model 3. Stick on an Infiniti badge if they think that would help....but it would take some bravery to introduce such a car on the brinks of a global turn down. Still I suspect it will sell far better than the current 370z and GTR combined, need for extra childs seat excluded I would buy one. Infinity are heading this way anyway. Those super electric cars to rival tesla will probably come much later on after the basics have come to the market. IE SUV and family sedans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jetpilot said: Its got to get started first I think it already has. The timeline matches when the original 350z and 370Z released. Its just deciding what Engine and tech to go with. Realistically the production cannot go on for another 10 years because of the rate of the world economy and changing technology. . I also don't expect them to sell much more than the Alpine if the price is 50k....so probably a projection of 1000 to 2000 units per year. Also depends on the engine and running costs. I think a huge factor would be running costs and insurance over design and features. A V6 alone might see similar under 1000 units a year shifted after the initial hype. So they might have to offer a 4 pot version to offset the low sales in Europe. Speaking to sales at one dealer, looks like people are trading up a lot less, holding onto what they've got, even when people do explore options and they most of the time don't follow through. There's still a market for it. Which I why I believe it will come if not for the european market for other markets in general. The below is interesting from a BMW perspective. I noticed 2008 during the crash. Then came the shape change and redesign which reignited interested then after 2 years started reducing. 13,000 is very good! But thats BMW. Having the 2 liter option may have boosted sales. But then it dissolves the Z heritage a bit BMW Z4 2017 244 2016 3.006 2015 4.093 2014 5.373 2013 5.970 2012 7.508 2011 9.417 2010 13.153 2009 13.497 2008 6.116 2007 15.281 2006 15.844 2005 14.137 2004 18.452 2003 22.973 Edited January 9, 2019 by GranTurismoEra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 52 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said: I think it already has. Its just deciding what Engine and tech to go with. . I also don't expect them to sell much more than the Alpine if the price is 50k....so probably a projection of 1000 to 2000 units per year. Also depends on the engine and running costs. But then it dissolves the Z heritage a bit If they havent decided on the drivetrain there is zero chance they have started on anything, there is nothing in the press with any credibility that suggests a new one is imminent, its all circumspect and hearsay to fill pages. They just wont bother if 1-2000 units a year, Alpine is a completely different kettle of fish, it is a reestablishing brand hoping to break into the market place with alleged future models to follow (see SUV as a clue to where they think the market is), the A110 may well be a loss financially, but if reestablishes the brand, mission achieved, much the same as the 4C, a start at reinventing themselves and making some interesting cars again. The Z cars started life with the 240z as an line six, the heritage is a two seater sports/gt car, nothing to do with engine configuration or nomination. We all love a sports/gt car hence why we are here, but Ekona is on the money, the sports/gt market is tiny. As ever, i hope i am wrong, but i keep asking myself why would Nissan want to release another Z car, GTR/Juke is where its at for them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 So what projection for sales in EU would be justified? We know USA will buy a certain amount if its reasonable I think you can start on other aspects without having tech in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Like what? Random sketch on a page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 The Qashqai sells in the top 10 of most sold cars. So more than Juke. A full scale model with possible interior. Power train and other components can come in later. For concept you dont need an engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Ekona said: So basically not a Leaf, then. It’s okay, the iPace is outselling all other cars in history combined ever other day anyway. Maybe they should make that-but-not-that instead. Or something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, ilogikal1 said: It’s okay, the iPace is outselling all other cars in history combined ever other day anyway. Maybe they should make that-but-not-that instead. Or something. SUV and 4 door I agree before anything else. And Full Electric. For infiniti. Nissan can go down the petrol hybrid route for the next decade. That means new engines which will cost but show they are moving towards better emissions and better fuel consumption They will be a lot more proactive than some companies still running pure petrol and diesel in New models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 37 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said: So what projection for sales in EU would be justified? We know USA will buy a certain amount if its reasonable I think you can start on other aspects without having tech in place I would purely guess that something in similar numbers to the 350z. 26 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said: The Qashqai sells in the top 10 of most sold cars. So more than Juke. A full scale model with possible interior. Power train and other components can come in later. For concept you dont need an engine The 2nd gen qashqai has not long been out (in relative terms) and selling well as you say, the Juke has been around for years and desperately needs a refresh but still sold 90k cars in 2017 in the Eu, i am no expert, but business head on, what do you really think Nissan will be prioritising, a small market segment 2 seater sports/gt car or a unit that still currently sells 90k a year in the EU. I hate to agree with Ekona so much but a sketch "might" be it, they really wont start designing and producing a car until they know the drivetrain, a concept maybe, but a concept is nowhere near the start of a new model or anything you have been suggesting you are "sure" of. Sorry, i would love you to be right, but just nothing stacks up in regards to a replacement in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said: The Qashqai sells in the top 10 of most sold cars. So more than Juke. A full scale model with possible interior. Power train and other components can come in later. For concept you dont need an engine And how many concepts without an engine do you see that ever get built? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, gangzoom said: If Nissan was feeling really brave they would put a much more aero coupe body on the drivetrain - which will enable 250mile+ EPA range. Make it AWD with over 400bhp WHP, put in some proper battery cooling and put a sticker price of £50-55k, so undercutting the iPace and top spec Model 3. Why? Whats the point, if its driven with any enthusiasm to make use of the aero the range wont be anywhere near 250 miles, you wouldnt even make a track day and home again. Keep the dull sh*t looking dull and appealing to people who just arent into cars! Edited January 9, 2019 by Jetpilot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Exactly. As I've said many times before on GZs many EV threads, an EV is absolutely perfect for city driving and the dull commute. Long may they continue building EVs for that purpose. However if you actually want to drive the pants off the thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilogikal1 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Surely sticking AWD on it would have a far greater affect of reducing the range than any aero would add anyway, seeing as you’re doubling the motors and all. So pointless post is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Prioritising the Juke and Qashqai I understand. The qashqai I was referring to UK. The Juke refresh will come soon im sure. With 800+ engineers and the limited amount of models it shouldn't really be an issue to refresh all models simultaneously. Youre saying theres no new Z because a lack of evidence to suggest so. Which is fine. I hear what youre saying from a business point of view. The market is bad but it didnt stop Toyota or BMW. I dont think itll stop Nissan. Ive been on numerous sites forums all people want is a refresh that's reasonably affordable. Thats America though. Im not saying Nissan look at the forums but it might not happen if theres isnt enough demand or enthusiasm for it. Then again its not up to just the consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 It stopped both Toyota AND BMW, the only way they could make another car was to share the cost of the development! Fact is, no-one wanted a 370Z then, and no-one wants a 400Z now. If it ever comes it'll be many years down the line and it'll be unrecognisable from anything most on here would actually want. And I don't include myself in that many, as I know I'm the only miserable sod who wants a manual 'box and an atmos engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Ekona said: Exactly. As I've said many times before on GZs many EV threads, an EV is absolutely perfect for city driving and the dull commute. Long may they continue building EVs for that purpose. However if you actually want to drive the pants off the thing... Well after flooring it in my cute little run around battery drains. Only charges up from regen braking and coming off the gas using engine braking. Youd need a much more capable hybrid battery for any sports car. Sport ev best keep that in Gran Turismo games A sport leaf maybe not. But in a sports car for the future It could be a thing if you really want to keep petrol engine alive a little longer via hybrid battery Edited January 9, 2019 by GranTurismoEra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ekona said: It stopped both Toyota AND BMW, the only way they could make another car was to share the cost of the development! Fact is, no-one wanted a 370Z then, and no-one wants a 400Z now. If it ever comes it'll be many years down the line and it'll be unrecognisable from anything most on here would actually want. And I don't include myself in that many, as I know I'm the only miserable sod who wants a manual 'box and an atmos engine Understandable!! but a bold statement judging by the forums and comments on many videos. No one as in not enough people want a 400Z. We,ll see. Edited January 9, 2019 by GranTurismoEra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GranTurismoEra Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 22 minutes ago, Ekona said: And how many concepts without an engine do you see that ever get built? vision GT to R-50. But I guess vision gt was supposed to be fully electric?? Maybe not a GTR but a show of the future in just design terms But they decided to stick with the current engine and slap £750,000 price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 24 minutes ago, GranTurismoEra said: Prioritising the Juke and Qashqai I understand. The qashqai I was referring to UK. The Juke refresh will come soon im sure. With 800+ engineers and the limited amount of models it shouldn't really be an issue to refresh all models simultaneously. Youre saying theres no new Z because a lack of evidence to suggest so. Which is fine. I hear what youre saying from a business point of view. The market is bad but it didnt stop Toyota or BMW. I dont think itll stop Nissan. Ive been on numerous sites forums all people want is a refresh that's reasonably affordable. Thats America though. Im not saying Nissan look at the forums but it might not happen if theres isnt enough demand or enthusiasm for it. Then again its not up to just the consumer. As Ekona points out, the probable only reason there is a Supra is the joint development. Sounds simple enough with 800+ engineers, but there is so so much more to building a new car. Numerous sites that want a refresh of the 370z that was an absolute sales disaster, not sure i would paying too much focus on what rose tinted spec wearing 370z owners want, like the dude on the infinti thread who would pay £50k for a nismo bodykitted roadster in a "heartbeat", or the others who would buy the sema 370z with 3.0ltr turbo.....yeah right! Anywho, lets all come back and chat the specifics when some actual physical model release is announced 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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