Tramlining feeling like driving on ice!!

[Bikeracer]

31 minutes ago, Ekona said:

£114 is a huge rip off: No way Nissan will be paying that, and tbh neither should they. Who's to say that it wasn't fine when you left the dealership, but the roads you've been driving on have been what's put anything out of alignment? Not saying that's the case, but tbh I think you're on a hiding to nothing if you chase that money back. They may well pay it, but there's no reason they should.

 

Caster isn't adjustable directly on most cars tbh, so it's not even worth worrying about. How does the car drive now you've had an alignment? That's what matters, not a set of numbers on a page. Don't get me wrong, caster can affect the steering, but it's not going to cause the problems you've mentioned. Dodgy at the front will, and now you've had that sorted...

Driven the same roads in my previous M3 along with my BMW M4 competition pack and Porsche 911 turbo without any issues. Adjustment required on both sides of front axle and one side of rear axle clearly illustrates a geometry problem due to lack of quality assurance at the factory. Whether or not the castor is relevant or not, not prepared to have anything outside manufacturers specification/tolerance on my new 3 week old £40k car. Being new everything on the car should be spot on and within design & production specification.

 

Done around 60miles since the adjustment this morning, huge improvement but the car still suffers from tramlining to an extent. It may well be a combination of low ambient temperature combined with run flat tyres with xtremely stiff sidewalls.

 

Be interesting to see how the car drives during the next few days.

 

Otherwise what a great car.

 

 

[nissanjuke]

I would not say £114.00 is a rip-off,  I had my car laser aligned and was taken around the car as they were doing it and I have seen for myself the work that went into the car, I paid £109.00 inc Vat.

[Ekona]

Wait, you've got runflats on??!! Jeez man, get them off and put something decent on! That's your issue, right there.

 

I'm willing to bet that very few Zeds are ever within caster spec. It's not adjustable. It really doesn't matter that much at all. Reject the car for it if you want, but personally I think that's overkill. It's a cheap Jap sportscar, to expect it to drive like a German one costing twice as much just isn't realistic IMHO.

 

 

And sure, I'd pay £120 for a decent alignment to my spec at a place that knew what they were doing. I wouldn't pay £120 for some monkey to turn a few nuts to get it back into the green for the sake of being in factory spec

[Ebized]

I have never driven a car with run-flats that lets face it are primarily designed for that purpose and not the best driving experience - hence I would never, ever have on a car I owned.

 

Wholly wrong to IMHO to put these on Nismo, IMHO

 

And agree with Ekona, in the light of that info.

[GranTurismoEra]

On 23/01/2018 at 22:48, Bikeracer said:

Sounds similar to mine howeve mine is in Dunlop SportMaxx GT600

Dunlops, must be the amount of complaints from customers, bridgestones are no better than budget, 

 

Have a feeling its the alignment and tracking or something in the suspension. Im taking it in on the 7th. 

 

Theyll prolly give me a glorious micra, so I asked for automatic...

[GranTurismoEra]

On 23/01/2018 at 22:52, Bikeracer said:

Just booked the car in to my local HPC to check over due to tramlining and also an oil & filter change now the car has done 1260miles.

 

HPC informed me that they could not check the 4 wheel alignment unless I paid £120 to get the 4 wheel alignment done as they said Nissan would not cover under warranty

 

Going to call Nissan UK as the car is only 2 weeks old.

Excuse me? Kidding right?! Wtf...

[Bikeracer]

10 hours ago, Ekona said:

Wait, you've got runflats on??!! Jeez man, get them off and put something decent on! That's your issue, right there.

 

I'm willing to bet that very few Zeds are ever within caster spec. It's not adjustable. It really doesn't matter that much at all. Reject the car for it if you want, but personally I think that's overkill. It's a cheap Jap sportscar, to expect it to drive like a German one costing twice as much just isn't realistic IMHO.

 

 

And sure, I'd pay £120 for a decent alignment to my spec at a place that knew what they were doing. I wouldn't pay £120 for some monkey to turn a few nuts to get it back into the green for the sake of being in factory spec

That’s what the cars come with New from the factory, 2018 model now have Dunlop SportsMaxx GP600 fitted, I’m sure they are runflats.

 

Wouldnt call a new £40k 370z Nizmo a cheap jap sportscar. Relatively speakingomg £40k may be cheap compared with my £150k Porsche 911 Turbo or £70k M4 comp pack. However £40k to me is still a lot of money.

 

Also your reference to “monkey turning a few nuts....” lol

Thats also why I tool it to Nissan HPC so that the GTR specialist would be the one doing the alignment not a tyre fitter at a tyre centre.

 

Interesting to see a BMW 645 in your signature strip. What’s your thought on the 6 series. Had a new 640 as a courtesy car from BMW recently, lovely looking Car but it handled like a boat, body roll was unbelievable. Is yours the same?

Edited January 27, 2018 by Bikeracer

[Bikeracer]

2 hours ago, GranTurismoEra said:

Excuse me? Kidding right?! Wtf...

Was dissapointed that they wouldn’t check the alignment prior to paying for a 4 wheel alignment. Also dissapointed that they said it wouldn’t be covered by warranty prior to inspecting the car and discussing with Nissan.

 

I have now lodged a complaint with Nissan so they should be back to me within 2 working days. Will let you know the outcome.

 

wouldnt mind be treated this way on a second hand Car or if I had driven over some pot holes. However on a 2 week old Car this is extremely dissapointing customer services.

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

Those castor readings are spot on what we see on the later 70's.

 

I would of set the car up with less Toe on the front (more closer to parallel) would help these cars a lot , the later 2018 cars drive better than the early 370Z on Bridgestones but not if the alignment was as bad as this car was when initialled checked.

 

We have never seen a new car with a good alignment set up.

[Bikeracer]

13 minutes ago, Mark@Abbey m/s said:

Those castor readings are spot on what we see on the later 70's.

 

I would of set the car up with less Toe on the front (more closer to parallel) would help these cars a lot , the later 2018 cars drive better than the early 370Z on Bridgestones but not if the alignment was as bad as this car was when initialled checked.

 

We have never seen a new car with a good alignment set up.

Mark thanks for your feedback.

 

Are the OEM Dunlop GP600 run flats ?

 

https://www.dunlop.eu/en_gb/consumer/tires/sp_sportmaxx_gt_600.SPMAXGT600.html

[Mark@Abbey m/s]

https://www.blackcircles.com/helpcentre/tyres/how-do-i-know-if-my-tyres-are-run-flat-tyres

 

look at the sidewall numbers/letters

[nissanjuke]

stick to your guns mate, you are right Nissan across the UK have got a bad name for not checking their performance cars and if you are like me I know right away when something is wrong with my car as I become part of my car when I drive it!   

[Bikeracer]

1 hour ago, nissanjuke said:

stick to your guns mate, you are right Nissan across the UK have got a bad name for not checking their performance cars and if you are like me I know right away when something is wrong with my car as I become part of my car when I drive it!   

Thanks will do. As I have a number of high performance vehicles and have the technical knowledge from being a Chartered Engineer and years of racing,  I don’t think Nissan are going to win this battle, unless they produce a QA check sheet from the factory which is highly unlikely.

 

Just done another 100miles in the Nismo today. Apart from slight tramlining at times love this car. Feels like a mini supercar. 

 

If it had another 200bhp it would certainly feel like a supercar. It’s a shame they don’t produce the 370 Nismo with R35 GTR engine and running gear. Think that would be the perfect car,as the R35 GTR is just too big to enjoy the performance.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Bikeracer

[nissanman312]

11 minutes ago, Bikeracer said:

Thanks will do. As I have a number of high performance vehicles and have the technical knowledge from being a Chartered Engineer and years of racing,  I don’t think Nissan are going to win this battle, unless they produce a QA check sheet from the factory which is highly unlikely.

 

Just done another 100miles in the Nismo today. Apart from slight tramlining at times love this car. Feels like a mini supercar. 

 

If it had another 200bhp it would certainly feel like a supercar. It’s a shame they don’t produce the 370 Nismo with R35 GTR engine and running gear. Think that would be the perfect car,as the R35 GTR is just too big to enjoy the performance.

You would like the supercharger on your z then I love mine feels na but faster

Glad you got your geo sorted

[Ekona]

Still, you've have thought an expert in the field of Chartered Engineering with a number of high performance vehicles and years of racing would be able to tell the difference between runflats and normal tyres...

 

Going to an HPC or Kwikfit makes zero difference if all they're going to do is put the numbers back in the green for you. Given your highly tuned senses and decades of top level motorsport experience, why did you not ask them to give you an alignment that would suit how *you* want to drive the car? I really don't understand where you're coming from on this one, if I'm honest.

 

Let's say you return the car because the caster isn't within spec (and for now we'll assume that Nissan give in to that). What happens when the next car that comes out is the same? And the one after that? You're chasing a dead horse here. IMHO there's bugger all wrong with that car that a decent alignment wouldn't cure 99% of. The other 1% is a couple of numbers on a page that don't matter.

[nissanjuke]

good luck and it is about time somebody took Nissan to task, as is Nismo just a name now!!

[Ebized]

8 hours ago, Bikeracer said:

Mark thanks for your feedback.

 

Are the OEM Dunlop GP600 run flats ?

 

https://www.dunlop.eu/en_gb/consumer/tires/sp_sportmaxx_gt_600.SPMAXGT600.html

Yep

[Bikeracer]

5 hours ago, Ekona said:

Still, you've have thought an expert in the field of Chartered Engineering with a number of high performance vehicles and years of racing would be able to tell the difference between runflats and normal tyres...

 

Going to an HPC or Kwikfit makes zero difference if all they're going to do is put the numbers back in the green for you. Given your highly tuned senses and decades of top level motorsport experience, why did you not ask them to give you an alignment that would suit how *you* want to drive the car? I really don't understand where you're coming from on this one, if I'm honest.

 

Let's say you return the car because the caster isn't within spec (and for now we'll assume that Nissan give in to that). What happens when the next car that comes out is the same? And the one after that? You're chasing a dead horse here. IMHO there's bugger all wrong with that car that a decent alignment wouldn't cure 99% of. The other 1% is a couple of numbers on a page that don't matter.

Thanks for your input.

 

You being the forum resident expert on Tyres, I would have expected you would have jumped in and confirm that the Dunlop Sport Maxx GP600 Tyres fitted to my Nismo were indeed run flats. What is your field of expertise with regards to Tyres and recommendations? Do you work in R&D for one of the major manufacturers? If so I’m sure we could all benefit from your expert knowledge.

Do you want to share your knowledge on how to identify run flat Tyres and the major differences between normal summer Tyres and run flat Tyres (apart from the fact that run flat Tyres enables the driver to continue driving at up to 50MPH following a blowout).

 

Have to admit I’m not an expert on run flat Tyres.

The only Car that I have previously owned with run flat Tyres was a 2011 R35 GTR back in 2011/12. Was under the impression that all high performance Nissans came from the factory fitted with run flat Tyres. Also the salesman at point of sale informed me that my 370z Nismo would come from the factory fitted with run flats, therefore never really checked for markings to indicate so on the Tyres since collection 3 weeks ago.

 

Regarding your comment regarding Kwik Fit vs HPC making zero difference, I disagree. My main concern would be trusting a Kwik Fit employee on minimum wage working on my car (with regards to him potentially damaging my car) compared to a high qualifier GTR technician from OPC working on the car.

 

Also don’t agree with your comment regarding caster angle. If Nissan have designed a car to be built to defined parameters (with a certain tolerance), the Car should leave the factor following appropriate QA checks to ensure that everything is within tolerance and the caris fit for purpose. 

 

If Nissan have decided to change the caster angle on New 370z then the dealers should be informed accordingly, otherwise it should be within the stated tolerance figures.

 

Forgot to ask do you own a 370z ?

Edited January 27, 2018 by Bikeracer

[Bikeracer]

1 hour ago, Ebized said:

Yep

Thanks for the attachment 

[Bikeracer]

4 hours ago, nissanjuke said:

good luck and it is about time somebody took Nissan to task, as is Nismo just a name now!!

Thanks for your support.

[Ekona]

1 hour ago, Bikeracer said:

Forgot to ask do you own a 370z ?

Nope. Never have, probably never will. I like the exterior (esp the mk2 Nismo), but the interior leaves me cold. Which is ironic, coming from a BMW owner! Does it matter though? Plenty of folks on here who have owned and sold up.

 

Never worked for a tyre company either. For me it's a passion, not a job. Sorry if I've come across as harsh, but it irks me when people come on saying how experienced they are at something and that they've owned X, Y and Z and have won LeMans twenty times but seem to struggle with the basics. It just smacks of try-hard blagging, rather than simply holding a hand up and saying "Y'know what, I've no idea here, help me out guys". Granted, you did that with the runflat question, but I was being serious when I said that I'd expect someone with the level of knowledge you clearly have to know something as obvious as that.

 

In terms of runflats over regular, runflats have impossibly stiff sidewalls by design which mean you lose feeling from the contact surface, which directly impacts both comfort (more vibrations are transmitted) and feedback (there's no give in the tyre when cornering so they're more snappy). As a rule a car that allows flex in the sidewall will ride better and also be more controllable on the limit. AFAIK none of the big guns put runflats on their top performance models. Not even BMW, who love the bloody things.

 

I don't care if a car is within spec or not. I don't think I ever run any car (well, performance car) with the geo settings within OEM spec as that may work for generic owner who knows nothing and just wants to pose, but I want MY car to handle how I want it to, not how the manufacturer thinks it should be i.e. safe and understeery. Generally speaking you tend to find that people who go to a specialist and explain to them how they want their car to handle and ignore the red/green divide on a bit of paper enjoy their cars far more.

 

I also agree that I'd use a HPC over KF, but then I wouldn't use either in the first place. I'd go to a recommended specialist or a local trusted garage, and there's a couple of those in your area. You'll find that very few dealers, HPC or otherwise, are considered trustworthy by the folks on here. For £120-odd you should be getting a tailored geo, not a generic one.

 

 

But in the sprit of goodwill, and not wanting to start something which drags on, I'll stop patronising if you stop posturing. Both in the wrong, both move on and start again, fair enough?

[Bikeracer]

13 hours ago, Ekona said:

Nope. Never have, probably never will. I like the exterior (esp the mk2 Nismo), but the interior leaves me cold. Which is ironic, coming from a BMW owner! Does it matter though? Plenty of folks on here who have owned and sold up.

 

Never worked for a tyre company either. For me it's a passion, not a job. Sorry if I've come across as harsh, but it irks me when people come on saying how experienced they are at something and that they've owned X, Y and Z and have won LeMans twenty times but seem to struggle with the basics. It just smacks of try-hard blagging, rather than simply holding a hand up and saying "Y'know what, I've no idea here, help me out guys". Granted, you did that with the runflat question, but I was being serious when I said that I'd expect someone with the level of knowledge you clearly have to know something as obvious as that.

 

In terms of runflats over regular, runflats have impossibly stiff sidewalls by design which mean you lose feeling from the contact surface, which directly impacts both comfort (more vibrations are transmitted) and feedback (there's no give in the tyre when cornering so they're more snappy). As a rule a car that allows flex in the sidewall will ride better and also be more controllable on the limit. AFAIK none of the big guns put runflats on their top performance models. Not even BMW, who love the bloody things.

 

I don't care if a car is within spec or not. I don't think I ever run any car (well, performance car) with the geo settings within OEM spec as that may work for generic owner who knows nothing and just wants to pose, but I want MY car to handle how I want it to, not how the manufacturer thinks it should be i.e. safe and understeery. Generally speaking you tend to find that people who go to a specialist and explain to them how they want their car to handle and ignore the red/green divide on a bit of paper enjoy their cars far more.

 

I also agree that I'd use a HPC over KF, but then I wouldn't use either in the first place. I'd go to a recommended specialist or a local trusted garage, and there's a couple of those in your area. You'll find that very few dealers, HPC or otherwise, are considered trustworthy by the folks on here. For £120-odd you should be getting a tailored geo, not a generic one.

 

 

But in the sprit of goodwill, and not wanting to start something which drags on, I'll stop patronising if you stop posturing. Both in the wrong, both move on and start again, fair enough?

No problem, thanks.

 

I posted this thread as I had a genuine issue with my car and wanted feedback from current owners on their experiences.

 

As I had bought the car new and wanted to make sure the car did what it said on the tin prior to doing any mods on the car including adjusting the gometry outside manufacturers to make sure the didn’t have any inherent problems.

 

Hope that clarifies the suituation for you.

 

With regards to your passion for Tyres, what initiated and stimulated that passion?

 

Also what high Performance cars have you owned?

 

Any Mcars?

 

Are you a member on M3cutters?

 

You should try the 370z especially the Nismo it’s a great car.

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Bikeracer

[Ekona]

Y'know, I've no idea where the specific interest in tyres came from. I guess it might be from when I ran the VXR220, and went from A048s to T1Rs (yes, yes, I know!) and wondered why the car felt just so different despite having run T1Rs on the previous car, a mk3 MR2. Soon went back to A048s, and then I realised just how utterly vital tyres are to the whole picture. Spiralled from there really I guess.

 

I've had (in order) the mk3 MR2 which I turbocharged, VXR220, 350Z, 911 (997.2 C2S PDK), mk1 MX5, another MR2 stripped for track and turbo'ed again, blobeye widetrack Impreza STi and the BMW 645Ci. The latter two we still have. Also driven many others reasonably extensively including most Porkers from 997.1 onwards, Ferraris from 458 onwards (not the 488 yet though), Gallardos, Elise-chassis cars, and a bunch of Zeds in different configurations. I wanted to test a 370ZN mk2, but the dealership was being an arse so gave up and bought the BMW instead. I've driven a manual 370 though, and wasn't blown away in the same way the 350 grabbed me.

 

I owned an E92 M3 for about 16 hours, then realised it was a huge mistake so got a refund and bought the 911 instead I've tracked an E46 M3 SMG though, which was hysterical fun. Not on M3Cutters, it's a great forum though as I've used it for advice on my 6er as it shares some internal stuff with the E46.

[Ebized]

All bollocks there Dan, admit you just have a rubber fetish

[Bikeracer]

On 26/01/2018 at 23:13, Ekona said:

£114 is a huge rip off: No way Nissan will be paying that, and tbh neither should they. Who's to say that it wasn't fine when you left the dealership, but the roads you've been driving on have been what's put anything out of alignment? Not saying that's the case, but tbh I think you're on a hiding to nothing if you chase that money back. They may well pay it, but there's no reason they should.

 

Caster isn't adjustable directly on most cars tbh, so it's not even worth worrying about. How does the car drive now you've had an alignment? That's what matters, not a set of numbers on a page. Don't get me wrong, caster can affect the steering, but it's not going to cause the problems you've mentioned. Dodgy at the front will, and now you've had that sorted...

Just an quick update, as I expected Nissan UK have agreed a full refund for the cost of the 4 wheel alignment.

 

They are also going to investigate the issue with the camber and offer a solution within 48 hours.

 

Great result.

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Bikeracer