Tkddave Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 5 hours ago, Jake.Lowther said: Fair enough I thought you was going to say something inspiring I could use in arguments against my mate, who believes the 2JZ is the best thing in the world and that I should put one in my 350z Haha sorry to disappoint mate! The vq is a great engine the way it stands and does sound good especially with a decent system. I suppose the 2j has a lot of fan boys behind it! Although I'm not sure I would do a 2j swap unless I had lots of disposable cash, my boss did one in his e46 m3 to just under 1k bhp and it was in no way cheap or simple haha And as jet pilot has mentioned they are renowned for the ability to take serious power without forging. Probably where a lot of the hype has come from. Still a great engine without a doubt, and in most ways simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 1000hp in any engine is going to cost ££££ - the point is you can get a JZ to about 450/500/550 for buttons, relatively speaking. Its not a fan boi thing, they are genuinely one of the best engines built for modification, ever which is why they get used in every driftcar ever, drag applications and anything else you care to mention. Dont forget theres a 1JZ thats nearly as capable and cheaper too. And as for sound, Ekona is wrong, simple as Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 They do sound like a fog horn! All volume and no tone. BLLLAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake.Lowther Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ekona said: They do sound like a fog horn! All volume and no tone. BLLLAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH I get the possibilities they have and I have to agree with Ekona I prefer the raspy roar of a V6 over a Flat 6 And then I prefer V8 over both of the above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 See, I have no preference over type of engine, more specific engine. For example, I’d pick the noise of a carb’d up Pinto over the DE, but I’d choose the DE over a VTEC four banger. Youll struggle to ever beat the sound of the Aston V12 from their LMP1 entry a few years back, though. Utter perfection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ekona said: See, I have no preference over type of engine, more specific engine. For example, I’d pick the noise of a carb’d up Pinto over the DE, but I’d choose the DE over a VTEC four banger. Youll struggle to ever beat the sound of the Aston V12 from their LMP1 entry a few years back, though. Utter perfection. But I think we can all agree V8s rule 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybp Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ekona said: See, I have no preference over type of engine, more specific engine. For example, I’d pick the noise of a carb’d up Pinto over the DE, but I’d choose the DE over a VTEC four banger. Youll struggle to ever beat the sound of the Aston V12 from their LMP1 entry a few years back, though. Utter perfection. If we're on this subject I think you have to take each engine on an individual basis, my Z as standard sounded great just a little muted, with the japspeed exhaust it sounded crap with the japspeed with the resonator I added and individual throttle bodies it's sexy as hell but my point is it's still the same engine the details make all the differance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkddave Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 (edited) Personally I prefer the 2j for sound, yes the v6 does sound awesome and I love the raspy note. Although each engine can sound different depending on spec as Andy has mentioned. But a single turbo supra on boost is the one but I suppose I am slightly biased! Edited November 29, 2017 by Tkddave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake.Lowther Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 30 minutes ago, Tkddave said: Personally I prefer the 2j for sound, yes the v6 does sound awesome and I love the raspy note. Although each engine can sound different depending on spec as Andy has mentioned. But a single turbo supra on boost is the one but I suppose I am slightly biased! That's the thing though, the NA 2JZ sounds nasty as ass Ok maybe not that bad, but my point is it's the turbskis everyone likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 The 2JZ was designed and built a decade before the VQ35DE rocked up, thats a long time in engineering terms. That in itself was amazing, that a supra could turn out performance on par with Ferrari counterparts of the era (aside from a few very high end models). The engine came forged from the factory, which is why when as a VQ35DE owner you get nervy around the 400bhp+ mark about how long your engine might last, the 2JZ is going to go on and on - came with larger injectors as standard as well. Also the transmission is generally good for 500bhp+ again no need for expensive work. Basically when all other engines go in for expensive forging processes costing thousands your 1990 2JZ just needs a bigger turbo (of course being slightly flippant but you see my point). There are fan boys for everything, but the legendary status of the 2JZ is there for a reason amongst car tuners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Same reason the Cosworth lumps were/are so popular: Massive tuning potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake.Lowther Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 hours ago, coldel said: The 2JZ was designed and built a decade before the VQ35DE rocked up, thats a long time in engineering terms. That in itself was amazing, that a supra could turn out performance on par with Ferrari counterparts of the era (aside from a few very high end models). The engine came forged from the factory, which is why when as a VQ35DE owner you get nervy around the 400bhp+ mark about how long your engine might last, the 2JZ is going to go on and on - came with larger injectors as standard as well. Also the transmission is generally good for 500bhp+ again no need for expensive work. Basically when all other engines go in for expensive forging processes costing thousands your 1990 2JZ just needs a bigger turbo (of course being slightly flippant but you see my point). There are fan boys for everything, but the legendary status of the 2JZ is there for a reason amongst car tuners... Yeah I get that and again we're talking about the better varient of the 2JZ as the other I don't believe can take 400bhp+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 But you are talking about an engine (again ten years older than the VQ35DE) and its start point is around 210bhp I believe off the top of my head. So yes, maybe by doubling its output power by adding 200bhp plus it might start to struggle, but then adding 200bhp to a VQ35DE without any forging you are looking at a dead engine in a short space of time. And as above, the transmission in the Supra will most likely 'top trump' a 350z in terms of getting it back towards the wheels. I don't own one, am not a fan boy, but trying to trade off the VQ35DE against it in this way is really not a sensible conversation anyway as both engines belong in different eras. There is no denying though ask any JDM tuner that the engine is a masterpiece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 One of the very reasons i got into rotaries, so tuneable in std trim and to get big hp all you were really talking was porting because of the way the engine works, no forging required. There were a few upgraded tips available but the actual engine components were std. My last Rx was rebuilt/ported at just over £3k and running a big single from day one from anything from 450 - 501 rwhp. ok it only lasted 20k miles (and that was water seals) but at £3k i dont think thats too bad, to get an rb26 to 500hp and last 20k miles will cost you a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jetpilot said: One of the very reasons i got into rotaries, so tuneable in std trim and to get big hp all you were really talking was porting because of the way the engine works, no forging required. There were a few upgraded tips available but the actual engine components were std. My last Rx was rebuilt/ported at just over £3k and running a big single from day one from anything from 450 - 501 rwhp. ok it only lasted 20k miles (and that was water seals) but at £3k i dont think thats too bad, to get an rb26 to 500hp and last 20k miles will cost you a fortune. Plus another £5k in oil over the 20k miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 20 litres of good old mineral oil doesnt break the bank, probably the same as 5ltrs of decent fully synth that went in the 350z. As a complete off topic, its such a shame they released that catastrophe of an RX8, as if the rotary rep wasnt damaged enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 The RX8 was a great car, and the engine was pretty decent too: the trouble was the marketing and after sales. People just expected to treat the engine like a regular 4 stroke, and weren't told that it was designed to chew through oil and need a rebuild every 20k miles. Off they went, never putting oil in it which exaggerated the tip wear, and then they moaned at Mazda when their cars broke. It's a beautiful handling car, the RX8, and the engine is something very different that's well worth experiencing if you're a keen driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docwra Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 19 hours ago, Ekona said: They do sound like a fog horn! All volume and no tone. BLLLAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH Thats the SR20 youre thinking of Give this vid 1 min and change your mind:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouWwftroNLg This is RB's and JZs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppU1jCgN918 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Jetpilot said: 20 litres of good old mineral oil doesnt break the bank, probably the same as 5ltrs of decent fully synth that went in the 350z. As a complete off topic, its such a shame they released that catastrophe of an RX8, as if the rotary rep wasnt damaged enough. I know, was just lightning the mood But yes, the RX8 were not sold in correctly and thus they quickly gained an image of being unreliable and they died a death very quickly when people couldnt be bothered with rebuild costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 46 minutes ago, docwra said: Thats the SR20 youre thinking of Give this vid 1 min and change your mind:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouWwftroNLg This is RB's and JZs:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppU1jCgN918 Nah, the SR20 is more HAAAAAWWWWNNNNN but really nasally First vid I will admit has some decent sounding cars on, fair play. Second vid though, at 0'30" and 1'10" describe exactly how most of those cars sound when tuned, just horrendous! #imgettingtoooldforthissh*t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Ekona said: The RX8 was a great car, and the engine was pretty decent too: the trouble was the marketing and after sales. People just expected to treat the engine like a regular 4 stroke, and weren't told that it was designed to chew through oil and need a rebuild every 20k miles. Off they went, never putting oil in it which exaggerated the tip wear, and then they moaned at Mazda when their cars broke. It's a beautiful handling car, the RX8, and the engine is something very different that's well worth experiencing if you're a keen driver. I didnt say it wasnt a good drive, but it put the final nail in the coffin for the rotary, regardless of whether it was miss sold (which i agree on), but that engine needed to be inline with piston engines (or as near too) with regards to lifespan to have any hope in the future, it was no more reliable than the original 13b and that was pushing out 50bhp more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tkddave Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 It would appear this thread has gone slightly off topic but yes I agree with what's Been said. Toyota just did well with that 2jz engines and getrag did well with the boxes. 800bhp on a stock block and the v160/v161 being able to hold well over 1k hp. the zed is a another great car it's own right, and I will admit after rolling around in a 20yr supra getting in a zed it's nice to be in something abit more modern lol although it would of been nice to have seen it with forced induction from factory, but then I suppose it would of bumped up costs and complexity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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