NHS

[TT350]

Hello.

 

Been discussing this subject off the board with Ekona.

 

I've been unlucky enough to have a spell in the hospital. I'm still here.

 

Potassium levels crashed, which initially caused stiffess, more stiffess then limb paralysis. My hands bent inwards because I couldn't straighten my fingers. I literally couldn't move at all. Frustrating and scary. Potassium is responsible for transmission of muscular nerve signals and ergo, mobility and...... your heart.

 

Had pre cardiac arrest conditions (ecg and eeg readings etc) and they were extremely concerned with what they were seeing. Electrolytes were crashing and not coming up with a drip. Then two drips. Then a main line into my artery on my neck. (painful!) 

 

Potassium got as low as 0.9mmol when it should be at least 3.5. 

 

29 litres through my neck and I'm feeling better. Mobility back totally. 

 

But worst of all through this experience, has been the NHS hospital conditions. 

 

Staff are simply at 200% working capacity. Dangerous. One young doctor said she was working 14 straight 12 hour shifts and currently earned less than one or two particular cleaners on the wards. 

 

I was left in a corridor. Not even in A+E..... I was bunged a few corridors away and left in one position for 7 hours and the pain from that was horrendous. Along with the fear and stress and just not knowing what was happening with me. 

 

From ambulance to a bed in ICU took 16 hours.

 

While I was in the corridor on a gurney, I wiggled off the bed just to change positions and ease my back pain. A paramedic stood with his hands in his pockets and watched me do it. Then as I lay on the floor he stood over me and told a nurse there was nothing wrong with me and that i was a p1ss taker and that I should be put outside the hospital and left for wasting their time and that it was all on camera. Then he was telling me to hurry up and get back up on the stretcher. I couldn't even move.

 

As I began to form a retort he just strolled off and said "I can't be ar5ed with you" 

 

I'm going to Persue him and I will have him. No matter how long it takes. Because I was very, very ill.

 

I'm at Blackburn General, which has had some shocking reviews yet still one of only 40% of hospitals that have a "Good" rating. The others all have lower ratings like "adequate" or "needs improving".

 

there's an article online about this hospital but I can't seem to paste URLs. 

 

Some pics...

 

I can hear what other people are being given for pain. Oxycodone, Diazepam. Etc. I can only get paracetamol a d nothing to help sleep on this boiling noisy ward.

 

Anyway, over to you guys. What's your NHS hospital experience?

 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by TT350

[gangzoom]

^Hope your getting better and ICU have got the right specialists involved with working out why your K+ is low!

 

No one working in NHS hospitals should be judging patients in any way, the demands on the system is at a breaking point and as I always tell people just remeber no patient wants to wait 4hrs in A&E, 99.95% of people come to hospital because they are unwell.

 

But the pressure of constant non stop work gets to people, and as a result staff attrition is massive. In our department we have a constant shortage of staff, we have two well paid full time posts advertised (£60k+ salary) for the last 2 years. Not a single UK citizen has ever applied, we did use to get spanish/polish staff but they have now stopped applying, recently interveiwed a chap over Skype from Jordon - nope after a chat he wasn't interested. Sadly any one with the skills needed can earn more in other sectors or abroad. This is the same situation in every department, from social workers, nurses, doctors, even managers.

 

Sadly the pictures of queues you post is nothing new. I been telling every one with any power to change just how close to collapse the whole system is, all it would take is one flu outbreak and people will die due to lack of resource/staff/beds. 

 

In our local area there has been at least at 10-20% reduction in beds to save money, yet the population is getting older and require more care. You don't have to be a genius to work out the real life implications. 

 

But there is no solution, private care is only there really for certain conditions. If you have low K and need ITU BUPA will not touch you with a stick.

 

Just as it happens I was speaking to a colleagues from a different country on healthcare provision. I asked how do you manage the bed pressure, his answer wad simple - money, if they can pay for the treatment all is good, if not they don't treat!!

 

I hope we never get to the point where payment is taken before anyone is even allowed in a hospital. But at the same time change is needed, however the politicans just dont appreicate the scale of the problem.

 

I actually love me job, making people better, even helping making people comfortable at the end of their lives and having them shake your hand saying the most genuine/sincere 'Thank You' is the best job satisfaction you can have. But the sheer work load been put on the staff is bringing the whole system close to collapse. 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by gangzoom

[TT350]

Good post GZ. 

 

The nurses have been fantastic. Absolutely maxed out with work but still 98% of them keep a caring and compassionate, professional and efficient attitude. 

 

I just can't get over how thinly stretched they are. 

 

The young doctors too. I've been awake most of the time and occasionally I'd see the same doctor and is ask when they were due home and they'd tell me they'd been home already and come back. 

 

I've been thinking about a career change to the NHS as Murse or Paramedic and I don't think I'm put off, for the same reason as you enjoy your job GZ. The satisfaction and well being from helping people at that level and the meaningful human interaction must be so rewarding and fill you with wellbeing. 

 

That lazy, jaded, insensitive and careless paramedic I came across though is gonna get a lighting bolt. A bit of incentive to alter his attitude and ask himself if he's in the right career. 

 

I hope the NHS can be saved. 

 

PS: I am on the mend. Potassium within normal levels, 3.7mol. My other electrolytes are all stable too. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by TT350

[Ekona]

Still can’t believe that paramedic was as much of a knob as he was. Utterly unforgivable. 

 

Its such a shame the NHS is seen as untouchable politically. Purely from a users point of view, it’s completely broken and desperately needs dismantling so it can be started again. Not in my lifetime though. 

 

The difference between public care and private care (where available, of course) is utterly shocking. I appreciate that many people will never be able to experience this, but private rooms and free tellybox and decent drugs on demand just makes the whole experience so much more bearable. If you do have any spare cash a month, instead of ploughing it into your car you could do a lot worse than take out private medical cover. 

[gangzoom]

^ The simple issue with private healthcare is the vast majority of elderly patients just cannot afford it. I've been asked many times by more well off patients if I would see them in BUPA/Sprie rather than the NHS, my simple response will always be no. Why should I give some patients preferential treatment over others? Its a naive view point I know but its a principle worth sticking up for.

 

The fact the NHS offers free healthcare for all regardless of cost is both its down fall but also why I love working in it. 

 

Private healthcare has its place, but its not for me, no matter how much more the finacial compensation I personally will never do any private work as long as the NHS exist.

Edited November 3, 2017 by gangzoom

[Ponsonby]

I know quite a few people who work in the NHS in senior and admin positions. The stories of financial waste are astounding and need to be addressed. I guess the politicians take on this is that if they can stop the waste then they don't need to put any more money in.

However, with an increasing population and people living longer it is not rocket science to work out that more money needs to be put in. I for one would not object to a tax rise if I knew the extra revenue was actually going to be used for the NHS. Maybe a proportion of our taxes should be specific to the NHS and not be able to be diverted.

Over the last couple of years my wife has had a condition needing regular visits to Walton Hospital in Liverpool, culminating in a brain operation a few months ago. I can only describe our experience as first class, it is NHS but felt like a private hospital. All the staff are happy and helpful. If you looked lost even the domestic staff would ask if they could help! That environment is what we need to be aiming for.

 

[Ponsonby]

21 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

^ The simple issue with private healthcare is the vast majority of elderly patients just cannot afford it. I've been asked many times by more well off patients if I would see them in BUPA/Sprie rather than the NHS, my simple response will always be no. Why should I give some patients preferential treatment over others? Its a naive view point I know but its a principle worth sticking up for.

 

The fact the NHS offers free healthcare for all regardless of cost is both its down fall but also why I love working in it. 

 

Private healthcare has its place, but its not for me, no matter how much more the finacial compensation I personally will never do any private work as long as the NHS exist.

Gangzoom - without people like yourself we would be screwed. A close relative of mine is a Matron and could earn far more if she moved to the Private sector but knows that the NHS and the general public need her so is sticking with the NHS. Thank you.

[Ponsonby]

My brother and his wife live in the US and volunteer for a charity feeding the homeless. During a visit we went with them to help and I got chatting to a homeless guy who was clearly well educated and used to have a very good and well paid job.

For some reason he let his insurance lapse and unfortunately got seriously ill. Without insurance they are obliged to save someones life but not provide the aftercare. He clearly needed a lot of aftercare so they took his house in payment. This caused problems between him and his wife and he lost his wife and kids, and also his job. Now better, he could not get another job because he did not have a permanent address.

So yes there are problems with the NHS but not as screwed up as the US model.

Also if they also stopped all the 'where there is blame there is a claim' nonsence there would be more money where it is needed.

[Ekona]

There needs to be a balance, and I agree the US system is not one to aim for. On a basic level we should start charging people for missed appointments, that would certainly start freeing up the system more right at the very bottom. 

[coldel]

About a week after the Coventry meet where all seemed normal I woke up 5am on a Sunday morning to find my knees stuck straight and in absolute agony. Its a pretty scary experience but anyway me the little un and the missus jump in the car to go to A&E. Ended up going to the one in Isleworth and the service was mixed to say the least. Receptionist who couldnt give two sh*ts about me she was too busy writing something down and as I approached the counter and leant on it because I was in screaming agony she told me to go STAND over there. I explained that I couldnt but she just motioned at a notice by her empire that said 'please queue back away from the desk' - I just wanted something to rest against and not have to stand in the middle of a waiting area unsupported. 

 

Got seen after about 90 mins which was really good, although nurse was dismissive of my injuries saying it was a cruciate problem (I told her I play football regularly) - I challenged her that I need to see someone else as I have had no impact injury and both knees at the same time that it cannot be that. She told me to leave and gave me co-dydramol which is some horrific pain killer which damages your liver, but hey lets not get into that.

 

I pursued my GP who said its probably cruciate, but again I said no impact and both knees at the same time, also I noticed and raised the issue that both elbows were now swelling up. I got told to 'go rest'. Not at one point did anyone in the NHS feel the need to escalate this.

 

I rang up again and demanded an MRI scan and they gave in and booked it, they also said they would refer me for physio who would call me that week (they never did). MRI scan came back with results about super healthy ligaments and tendons apparently I am fantastic shape in that respect. The report said to urgently see a rheumatologist - I asked the NHS and was given a 7 week waiting time to see one. So I just gave up and called my private health cover that I get free through work. 2 days later, seen a specialist, correctly diagnosed as psoriatic arthritis (I am 42 and yes arthritis in this form can hit anyone of any age) and now on a course of drugs to manage the pain and swelling along with loads of advice on the lifestyle changes I need (high oily fish intake, various supplements, pretty much stopped booze, cycle every day on the bike indoors on a turbo trainer - i have never been so healthy). If you see me now you would never know, telltale signs is getting up from a chair after sitting there for 15 mins or so is painful but nowhere near the constant agony I was in 24hours a day a couple of months back when I lost a stone in weight in 4 weeks and no one in the NHS would listen.

 

I get the NHS is overburdened, I get that the majority of staff are great people, I also get that if I hadnt had private I would have been in a shocking state for months and god knows where I would be now - I was crippled and lost so much mobility (but nowhere near as dangerous as your issue TT) but no one seemed at all bothered because they thought they had the diagnosis right and wouldnt listen to their patient. Maybe I should have used private straight off the bat, but in any case I felt failed and just thank my lucky stars that I get a bundle of benefits in with my job role.

[bytespc]

Sorry to hear about your woes, here's hoping you get better soon and they find the root of your drastic crash.

 

Having been in and out of Hospitals for the past 25 years with a chronic Arthritis and Heart issue I totally agree with you on the standard of our care system, I now have many friends in the NHS who have privately told me the same thing ref the problem with the system but it's not PC or palatable for many but it is the truth, years ago the NHS was quietly taken over by the Liberal / Lefty Elite who decided it was no longer a National Health Service but an International one and without anyone voting for it started treating any foreigner who racked up, there is a system in place for supposedly getting them to pay but the culture within the system is now so screwed up that anyone attempting to follow up a non payment is vilified as racist.

 

A&E is now effectively a Dr's surgery as GP's are so overwhelmed by the influx of non English speakers that they simply cant cope any more.

 

Sorry if this offends anyone but this is my ongoing first hand experience and as I said the view of a lot of Health Professionals who if they voice any decent will instantly be struck off, 

[coldel]

I would agree to a point on that bytespc but simply stopping that is not going to solve the problem. There might be non-natives in the waiting room, but one of them might be a wealthy businessman who set up a business employing a dozen people here in the UK and exporting goods, possibly paying much more tax into the NHS that many of us, ok they might not be the traditional white colour and speak the queens English but observational views like that are open to being misread. I do agree though there are the medical tourists that come to the UK for treatment - I do not though believe they are the downfall of the NHS. 

 

Other factors that I would say have a big if not bigger role are: 

Your life expectancy in the UK in 1970 was something like 67-68 years old, now its nearly 80. People are living much longer, but in those later years requiring much more care - UK population in 1970 56m now its 63m with people living longer 

Lifestyle changes in the UK over that time have swerved all over the place but certainly only recently have people actually understood how to look after themselves, heavy smoking drinking fast food etc has been common place in the UK and obesity was a big issue not so long ago that the government threw a tonne of money at nationwide campaigns to educate the populus

The recent rise in pollution and air quality accounts for tens if not hundreds of thousands of problems with health in the UK

And many many more things that we as a country do that promotes visits to the GP/Hospitals

 

I guess the easy thing to solve the problem is to point fingers and accrue blame, however I believe there is so much more at play here. Certainly the funding is just not there. £112bn in 2009, £122bn in 2017 and only a planned £126bn in 2012 its simply not enough to deal with the sheer amount of people coming through the door due to all the above reasons and many many more.

[rabbitstew]

The NHS has been bad for as long as I can remember, although it does seem to be getting worse and worse. I remember back in 2002 I got pleurisy. Exceptionally painful and it made me struggle to breath. Quite dangerous as it could lead to pneumonia. My local Dr who I think was from Nigeria and was notorious for miss-diagnosing people just gave me some anti-biotics and sent me on my way. In the end after a few days he realised it was a bit more serious and sent me off to hospital. I sat there in a waiting room for 5 long agonising hours. They wouldnt give me any pain killers until a Dr had checked me out and I was pulling my hair out.

 

Ive been to A&E a few times over the last few years with our little lad and as they give kids a higher priority he does get seen quickly, but it always amazes me just how busy they are and how few staff they seem to have to look after everyone. It is very worrying.

 

My local Doctors surgery is a bit a of a joke these days. If you are sick enough to need a Doctor - and for me that means im really sick - then you have to phone up between 8 and 10am and book an appointment for later in the week. The phone is always engaged solid so you are very lucky if you get through and when you do you may get an appointment for 3 days time. Thats right. No same day appointments at all unless its an exceptional emergency.

 

Another thing which always strikes me is the high number of non English people who work for the NHS. I cant remember the last time I actually spoke to an English Doctor. I cant actually pronounce the names of the 5 Doctors who work at my local surgery. Not that it makes any difference to the service or care they provide, but it seems to me that noone born in England wants to go into this sort of profession any more and so we have no choice but to recruit outside of the UK. Again, thats a bit worrying. We really need to do something to attract more people into this industry.

[gangzoom]

18 minutes ago, bytespc said:

A&E is now effectively a Dr's surgery as GP's are so overwhelmed by the influx of non English speakers that they simply cant cope any more.

 

Can you imagine what its like to treat a patient who than says 'not seen your kind around here before' or 'I dont mind you lot, you keep to your selves, its the dark ones I don't like'.

 

Trust me so called 'health tourism' is a not even a blip on the actual problems facing the NHS. But than again am also a foreigner so you probably shoudlnt trust me :).

 

@Ekona has already hinted at the NHS gets used like a political football by just about everyone, if you don't like foreigners fine, don't drag the NHS into it.

 

[coldel]

9 minutes ago, rabbitstew said:

The NHS has been bad for as long as I can remember, although it does seem to be getting worse and worse. I remember back in 2002 I got pleurisy. Exceptionally painful and it made me struggle to breath. Quite dangerous as it could lead to pneumonia. My local Dr who I think was from Nigeria and was notorious for miss-diagnosing people just gave me some anti-biotics and sent me on my way. In the end after a few days he realised it was a bit more serious and sent me off to hospital. I sat there in a waiting room for 5 long agonising hours. They wouldnt give me any pain killers until a Dr had checked me out and I was pulling my hair out.

 

Ive been to A&E a few times over the last few years with our little lad and as they give kids a higher priority he does get seen quickly, but it always amazes me just how busy they are and how few staff they seem to have to look after everyone. It is very worrying.

 

My local Doctors surgery is a bit a of a joke these days. If you are sick enough to need a Doctor - and for me that means im really sick - then you have to phone up between 8 and 10am and book an appointment for later in the week. The phone is always engaged solid so you are very lucky if you get through and when you do you may get an appointment for 3 days time. Thats right. No same day appointments at all unless its an exceptional emergency.

 

Another thing which always strikes me is the high number of non English people who work for the NHS. I cant remember the last time I actually spoke to an English Doctor. I cant actually pronounce the names of the 5 Doctors who work at my local surgery. Not that it makes any difference to the service or care they provide, but it seems to me that noone born in England wants to go into this sort of profession any more and so we have no choice but to recruit outside of the UK. Again, thats a bit worrying. We really need to do something to attract more people into this industry.

The funny thing is I try desperately to avoid the English male doctor at my GP as he is insensitive and dismissive, there is a lady of African descent who I try to make sure I see as she seems to be much better at coaching me through my symptoms and getting the right next steps in place. It was the English doctor I saw in the above experience.

[gangzoom]

2 minutes ago, rabbitstew said:

Another thing which always strikes me is the high number of non English people who work for the NHS. I cant remember the last time I actually spoke to an English Doctor. I cant actually pronounce the names of the 5 Doctors who work at my local surgery. Not that it makes any difference to the service or care they provide, but it seems to me that noone born in England wants to go into this sort of profession any more and so we have no choice but to recruit outside of the UK. Again, thats a bit worrying. We really need to do something to attract more people into this industry.

 

I've worked 36hrs non stop trying to help patients in the NHS. I've literally shed blood and tears for complete stangers whilst getting paid £15/hr, I don't mind because I love my job. But views like this makes me wonder why I bother. I apologies if been a non UK born citizen offends you so much, and the mental pain it must cause you to try to prounce my name, or the fact the colour of my skin must cause you so much offence.

 

I can get double my current pay working in Singapore, as can my wife. We looked at seriously emigrating a few years ago, the arrival of our daughter put that on hold.

 

But I thank you for reminding me just how unwelcome we are for many people in the UK, and certainly when my daughter is old enough for school, emigrating will be back on the cards.

[rabbitstew]

 

 

Just now, coldel said:

The funny thing is I try desperately to avoid the English male doctor at my GP as he is insensitive and dismissive, there is a lady of African descent who I try to make sure I see as she seems to be much better at coaching me through my symptoms and getting the right next steps in place. It was the English doctor I saw in the above experience.

Indeed, nothing wrong with non English Doctors at all, but shows that we just arnt attracting any English people in these jobs any more. Whether due to low pay, or bad rep or they just cant be bothered..

[coldel]

Just now, rabbitstew said:

 

 

Indeed, nothing wrong with non English Doctors at all, but shows that we just arnt attracting any English people in these jobs any more. Whether due to low pay, or bad rep or they just cant be bothered..

Or not qualified? 

[rabbitstew]

1 minute ago, gangzoom said:

 

I've worked 36hrs non stop trying to help patients in the NHS. I've literally shed blood and tears for complete stangers whilst getting paid £15/hr, I don't mind because I love my job. But views like this makes me wonder why I bother. I apologies if been a non UK born citizen offends you so much, and the mental pain it must cause you to try to prounce my name, or the fact the colour of my skin must cause you so much offence.

 

I can get double my current pay working in Singapore, as can my wife. We looked at seriously emigrating a few years ago, the arrival of our daughter put that on hold.

 

But I thank you for reminding me just how unwelcome we are for many people in the UK, and certainly when my daughter is old enough for school, emigrating will be back on the cards.

Thats not at all what I meant. What I was saying is that the NHS is understaffed and we just are not attracting English people into the service so we have to look abroad. Nothing wrong with non English Doctors at all, but we need more people.

[Ekona]

My family GP as a kid was an Indian chap called Dr Rashid, nicest guy I've ever met in the medical world. House calls were common back then after a day's work in the surgery, I remember him coming out to see me a few times when I was sick. We're only talking the late '80s here, so not exactly pre-war.

 

I think Rabbitstew makes a good point, and he's not portrayed it in a racist way either. I don't feel particularly comfortable when the person treating me is speaking in such a strong accent that I struggle to understand it, regardless of colour of skin. That goes as much for doctors from Glasgow as it does for doctors from Ghana: Indeed, I struggle understanding the former much more, so heaven help me if I'm ever sick north of the border!

 

Personally I couldn't give a fig where the person who is treating me is from, and they can all be from anywhere else for all I care. As long as the treatment is good and I can understand the treatment when explained to me, then I'm fine with that. That applies as much to anyone born in the UK as born anywhere else, which I think is reasonable enough.

[bytespc]

49 minutes ago, coldel said:

I would agree to a point on that bytespc but simply stopping that is not going to solve the problem. There might be non-natives in the waiting room, but one of them might be a wealthy businessman who set up a business employing a dozen people here in the UK and exporting goods, possibly paying much more tax into the NHS that many of us, ok they might not be the traditional white colour and speak the queens English but observational views like that are open to being misread. I do agree though there are the medical tourists that come to the UK for treatment - I do not though believe they are the downfall of the NHS. 

 

Other factors that I would say have a big if not bigger role are: 

Your life expectancy in the UK in 1970 was something like 67-68 years old, now its nearly 80. People are living much longer, but in those later years requiring much more care - UK population in 1970 56m now its 63m with people living longer 

Lifestyle changes in the UK over that time have swerved all over the place but certainly only recently have people actually understood how to look after themselves, heavy smoking drinking fast food etc has been common place in the UK and obesity was a big issue not so long ago that the government threw a tonne of money at nationwide campaigns to educate the populus

The recent rise in pollution and air quality accounts for tens if not hundreds of thousands of problems with health in the UK

And many many more things that we as a country do that promotes visits to the GP/Hospitals

 

I guess the easy thing to solve the problem is to point fingers and accrue blame, however I believe there is so much more at play here. Certainly the funding is just not there. £112bn in 2009, £122bn in 2017 and only a planned £126bn in 2012 its simply not enough to deal with the sheer amount of people coming through the door due to all the above reasons and many many more.

A lot of what you say is true to a point but for me one of the big sea change events was when successive governments withdrew support for care homes , in the 6 years up to 2016 1,500 closed , also the disgusting removal of support for the cerebral palsy / special needs  schools which  lead to mass closures and the inevitable pressure that put on local infrastructure , one of the hardest items I ever watched on Southern TV was an interview with a young lad as they closed the Portsmouth special needs school that had been there for decades and how he was dreading being forced into mainstream schools where he will inevitably be bullied endlessly.

 

We are supposed to be a civilised society but how we treat our Elderly / Sick or infirm beggars belief, on a personal level walking with sticks and slowly and ungainly I am attacked verbally on an almost daily basis thanks to governments tainting disabled as scroungers / scum who suck the life out of our economy ( thanks Duncan Smith ), also as I drive a 350Z with a Disability Badge the abuse is never ending...because of course Disabled aren't allowed anything nice because it must be at the expense of others.

 

I'm off to have a cuppa .

[Ekona]

Bloody disabled, coming over here and stealing our cuppas...

[TT350]

The NHS is massively mismanaged. That's the problem. The people who balance the books.

 

For example, talking to a nurse this morning about a particular patient with psyche problems and violence who's further down the ward and filling the air with screams and constantly fighting the staff....

 

The NHS outsource security staff to watch them, chaperone them etc. 

 

This particular nurse sits in on the meetings they and the docs etc have and these outsourced security firms are charging the NHS 400£ per hour for the first 3 hours then £1000 per hour EACH guard for subsequent hours. There are 6 guards that have been here over 48 hours. Rotated of course.

 

That's an obscene amount of money. (I'm tired. not slept since Sunday) if my maths serves me right just under 300k wasted. 

 

Where are the people reviewing these expenses and putting a stop to it? Someone should be looking the receipts over and going "wtf is this bill all about?!"

[TT350]

Incidentally I haven't seen or heard any non indigenous peoples. 

 

The nutter costing 150k a day is a fat indigenous chav covered in tats. Shes a real looker! 

[Ekona]

Post natal abortion would solve a lot of the issues.