How low will it go? GT-R Depreciation

[-G-]

After a length chat with a friend about the merits and demerits of swapping an classic NSX for a similarly valued GT-R I was shocked to see how cheap you can potentially pick up a GT-R now.

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710039924030?atmobcid=soc3

 

£28,000! It is an import mind you, but holy @*!# that is a big drop on the usual £35k you see the lowest cars going for, indeed £34,000 is the next lowest car on autotrader with a Lichfield stage 2 tune.

 

My question / topic for discussion is, have we reached the official bottom of these cars values? Can we envisage a further drop in the value of these cars or will the increase in RRP for new GT-Rs stabilise it going forward?

 

 

[Sargara]

I think it will depend largely what Nissan do next with the GTR. If they do a decent follow up, current owners may jump ship and the supply will increase and reduce the price of current GTR, if they do a bad job (see new NSX) it will prevent further drops.

 

Dodgy bodykits like that £28k example tho may still be lower.

[docwra]

7 hours ago, -G- said:

After a length chat with a friend about the merits and demerits of swapping an classic NSX for a similarly valued GT-R I was shocked to see how cheap you can potentially pick up a GT-R now.

£28,000! It is an import mind you, but holy @*!# that is a big drop on the usual £35k you see the lowest cars going for, indeed £34,000 is the next lowest car on autotrader with a Lichfield stage 2 tune.

 

Marshalls had an import on their forecourt for £28K a couple of years ago now, theres been enough facelifts and they are expensive enough to run I think the bottom end could go sub £20K within a few years. 

When a Golf R or a TT-S can do 11 second quarters for £1500 of modding a car that costs more than that to change the tyres isnt going to be as attractive as it once was

[coldel]

I agree the power delivery it was famous for is now achieved relatively easily on other platforms for less money and less maintenance. 

[Ekona]

I wonder if they will go much lower, y'know. Excessive running costs doesn't always mean that prices go down to compensate, ultimately you can get to a point where if you can't afford to run one then it doesn't matter how cheap it is.

 

If the next GT-R is indeed all hybridy and into six figures, then I think R35 prices could well firm up.

[parello9]

Thing is however much the gtr is you will always need a back pocket on 15k minimum just in case, which most people won’t have sitting there

Edited October 5, 2017 by parello9

[Ekona]

£15K? Ouch.

[coldel]

It kind of reminds me of the RX7/8 how values went down because of that fear of engine rebuild costs (whether you agree or not you cant deny its a big factor).

[Richf]

Golf R with a few bolt ons as an alternative to a GTR , cant imagine what world that would be 

 

Quickest Golf R in the world runs high 10's on the 1/4 stock 35 will run 11.0 

 

The Golf R isnt even an impressive hatchback nowadays. 

 

Audi TT-S is the same dull package , TT-RS perhaps

 

Th GTR has aged and others have caught up but you still get an awful lot for your money but its true that the lower end of the market the bigger your contingency fund needs to be 

 

  

[Jetpilot]

Personally i would say the GTR price has remained pretty firm for some time now, there may be the odd rogue/import floating about cheaper but £35-£40k is where they have been for at least a couple of years, but as has been mentioned to me (and above) whilst pondering my next car and the GTR being on the list, they are now reaching that age where "things" are starting to go wrong (earlier cars) and those "things" arent cheap, so a £40k car could quickly turn into a £50k car, 25% extra would be quite something to stomach in a budget. Personally i now wouldnt touch one unless it was from a decent garage with a comprehensive warranty, which will probably bump the initial price. So i think prices will drop as more and more dogs enter the marketplace and as Ekona says, when the next model is released, pending on spec and price, they will firm up.

 

I agree ref RX8, but personally the RX7 fell into the wrong hands and they mostly got chaved up which was what drove the prices down, most serious buyers always budgeted for a rebuild at some point

 

I would love to know how Honda have done a "bad job" with the NSX, they are fetching hefty premiums and long term order if you buy through a dealer, plus they have pretty good reviews from what i have seen.

[docwra]

21 minutes ago, Richf said:

Golf R with a few bolt ons as an alternative to a GTR , cant imagine what world that would be  

The world where GTRs are starting to be roughly the same price ......... but the buyer has to do the school run and then use the car as a daily and doesnt want to spend £5K a year on keeping his car on the road. 

 

Bear in mind we are talking an 8-9 year old GTR which does an 11.6 second quarter and will probably have at least 60K miles on it, probably more, I can see a lot of people taking a 2 year old R over something like that. 

 

 

[AMT]

There is a point now, they do look cheap as for the performance but on the other hand yeah... smaller, less expensive things with AWD are getting damn close and even beating supercar or expensive sports car performance.  It makes you wonder where it'll stop as hatches catch up to sports cars, sports cars/GT's now becoming old skool supercar fast and supercars...well there going insane these days with the likes of 720S etc. 

The GTR is a very expensive thing to run..... 

 

Oh and on a random note since you mentioned 5K a year running costs, which to most will be ridiculous money.... I do on average around 17K miles a year (work and toy), insurance not that dear - around 400-500), tax, full set of proper tyres, MOT, inbetween amount for servicing cause it can range from 100+ to 400. I worked out with my mate and his corsa not too long ago, (excluding the cost of the car)...it cost him £1000 a year to run, maybe less. My Zed.... costs approx £4500 a year to run....  (admittidly half-ish of that is fuel).... Scary amount for a Z and I've owned it for 5 years...  It's also had around £2500 of random repairs and updates (including the cat back exhaust cos the old one developed the usual hole at the back box pipe). All these things add up. All that over 5 years is like £25,000 to run the silly thing. 

 

I cannot imagine running a GTR and things going wrong along with normal maintenance.... oh and btw my servicing and repairs were all done at discounted labour rates! (I did once check with Alex Noble Nissan and their prices were double what I pay). 

 

Cheap sports stuff can be appealing as hell... thats how I could buy it but by god you better have pockets full if your gonna run something of a GTR nature.

Edited October 5, 2017 by AMT

[ZMANALEX]

Normal running and servicing costs for the R35 GT-R are not that scary.

 

There are numerous specialists, Litchfields, SVM, and Kaizer to name a few, who can service and maintain these cars at reasonable costs.

 

The cars run practically trouble-free, including the early cars, the majority of which have had all the known issues sorted.

 

Unless you are tracking the car or driving like you have stolen it, the tyres and brake pads will last at least a year or circa 12,000 + miles.

 

I maintain quite a few GT-Rs and in particular a 2014 GT-R which has covered only 18,000 miles which belongs to a friend of mine and the brake pads are not even half worn and the tyres have just been replaced for the first time as it was due its MOT and he did not want any advisories, even though there was still 3mm left on them.

 

A set of branded tyres will set you back £800.00 upwards.

 

Annual servicing costs are very reasonable, examples including labour, parts and vat. below:

 

My view is if you can comfortably afford the purchase price of a well maintained, average to low mileage GT-R at circa 40K then you can afford the running costs, however, if you buy an unloved example, then of course extra expense may be incurred.

 

Cars for sale at say circa 28K are cheap for a reason and always flags up buyer beware.

 

Getting back on track, a proper unmolested, well maintained, low mileage  R35 GT-R will cost circa 40K upwards.

 

My view is that the values are steady and I would not envisage any drastic depreciation in the near future of residual values of well-maintained cars, with sensible mileage and FSH.

 

12,000 miles:  £297.00

24,000 miles:  £415.00

36,000 miles:  £726.00 (includes both diff and gearbox fluids)

48,000 miles:  £415.00

60,000 miles:  £854.00 (includes brake hoses and Spark Plugs)

72,000 miles:  £828.00 (includes both  diff and gearbox fluids)

 

[Adrian@TORQEN]

Having owned a 2010 low mileage GTR for over 2 years, I susbcribe to all what Alex said above. They’re really not that expensive to run and maintain.

 

£15k figure mentioned above doesn’t have any backing. I haven’t spent a dime on repairing things on the car, but only on upgrades and servicing @ Kaizer Motors

[Richf]

18 hours ago, docwra said:

The world where GTRs are starting to be roughly the same price ......... but the buyer has to do the school run and then use the car as a daily and doesnt want to spend £5K a year on keeping his car on the road. 

 

Bear in mind we are talking an 8-9 year old GTR which does an 11.6 second quarter and will probably have at least 60K miles on it, probably more, I can see a lot of people taking a 2 year old R over something like that. 

 

 

Of all cars why the Golf R ? They are so just so dreadfully dull , boring to the extreme, they are simply the "Beige" of performance cars , yes they are fairly quick but there are a lot better hot hatches out there today and much better ways to spend 30K,  you could have a 600hp car for that and not an 8 or 9 year old one either   

 

The GTR may be a lot of things but boring it is not. 

 

I have a mate who has owned a few GTR's and another who runs a specialist garage for them and they reckon one would cost about twice what a 370z does to run . Of course you could be unlucky and end up with a big bill but you could with a Golf R and you are looking at 10k for a new engine for one of those   

[Ekona]

I don't think I'd call a 1500kg 4WD hot hatch with 300-odd bhp (much less 400bhp with a £120 remap!) dreadfully dull. Hell, it still has the option of a manual 'box so that's one area where the R35 will never be able to compete. Plus new car, plus full warranty, plus decent interior, plus five proper seats, plus more boot space, plus it's a completely different image (for better or worse) etc.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'd take a GT-R over a Golf R too, but I can see plenty of reasons why many people wouldn't.

[docwra]

17 minutes ago, Richf said:

Of all cars why the Golf R ? They are so just so dreadfully dull , boring to the extreme, they are simply the "Beige" of performance cars , yes they are fairly quick but there are a lot better hot hatches out there today and much better ways to spend 30K,  you could have a 600hp car for that and not an 8 or 9 year old one either   

 

The GTR may be a lot of things but boring it is not. 

 

I have a mate who has owned a few GTR's and another who runs a specialist garage for them and they reckon one would cost about twice what a 370z does to run . Of course you could be unlucky and end up with a big bill but you could with a Golf R and you are looking at 10k for a new engine for one of those   

First bit - because its 4WD, and can be remapped to GTR levels of (straight line) performance for very little money. It also doesnt look like a chavwagon (Civic), have only two doors (Megane), cost big coin (Focus RS) or carry a BMW badge.

Second bit - despite doing GTR quarter miles the Golf would be a lot newer, a lot more economical, less ostentatious, better equipped, more practical and probably still under warranty. If your wife is involved in the decision these will all be very big plus points over the 9 year old R35, trust me

 

The point is that a 30K GTR is not an option for most people, its not cheap enough to be a weekend only/track car and has potential for heavy expenditure if it goes wrong, or even if it doesnt. I dont know if you remember the title of the thread but this is why I think it will continue to depreciate - 9 years ago if you wanted a GTR then there werent really any other options, but there are plenty of choices for the same money now, some that are a lot newer and can offer similar performance.  

[Jetpilot]

I wonder how many Golf R's are specced with a manual box vs dsg from new, i would bet its weighted fairly heavily to dsg so i just dont consider that a selling point except to a very small percentage who still revel in changing gear handdraulically if you like and there arent many of you

 

Doc is on the money when it comes to choices, wives, kids, image, new etc, but if you want a GTR from a personally prospective i wouldnt even consider the Golf, but then i dont have to justify it to a wife and kids, dont care about image, the only consideration would be new vs old, i dont even care the Golf would be as quick staright line as on the track i doubt it would see which way the GTR went.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Jetpilot

[Ekona]

I dunno, I think you might be surprised. Less weight, newer electronics, newer chassis... I bet there's not as much in it as you'd think.

 

I'll go have a hunt for lap times.

 

[Richf]

32 minutes ago, Ekona said:

I don't think I'd call a 1500kg 4WD hot hatch with 300-odd bhp (much less 400bhp with a £120 remap!) dreadfully dull. Hell, it still has the option of a manual 'box so that's one area where the R35 will never be able to compete. Plus new car, plus full warranty, plus decent interior, plus five proper seats, plus more boot space, plus it's a completely different image (for better or worse) etc.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'd take a GT-R over a Golf R too, but I can see plenty of reasons why many people wouldn't.

Not driven one then? Go drive one and come back .  

 

Best part of £35k for a new plus options , no warranty once you've put your £120 map on it (More like £700 if you go anywhere who knows what they are doing) http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb_r.html

 

They arent a bad car , great family car, a good daily, practical with a bit of pace when you feel like it, cheap to run, but compared to a R35 GTR really ? 

 

The only reason anyone would take a Golf R over a GTR is if they cant afford a GTR and then they are just making excuses and fooling no-one. There is no shame in saying you cant afford a GTR , most people cant they are outside the reach of the average working joe  

[Ekona]

I've not driven a Golf R, no. I have no desire to either, but at the same time I've already said I wouldn't take one over an R35.

 

If you honestly believe your last sentence, then I really don't think this is the conversation for you. Doc already pointed out a ton of reasons why someone might pick an R over an R35. And given that we've already proved that an R35 is cheaper than a new R, saying that one is outside of the average Joe is ridiculous

[Richf]

34 minutes ago, docwra said:

First bit - because its 4WD, and can be remapped to GTR levels of (straight line) performance for very little money.

No it cant, stock Golf R runs low 13's in the 1/4 mile , start winding the power up and try for those sub 4 seconds 0-60 and you'll break something at least with the manual you will  

[Ekona]

Anyway, laptimes. Further apart than I expected tbh, Bedford West is a good comparison which is 1:26:10 for the R and 1:20:10 for the GT-R. The only caveat is that Tiff was in the Nissan and Prosser in the VW, and I think it's reasonable enough to say that the former isn't as quick a driver! Still, that's a bigger gap than I thought, I stand corrected.

[Richf]

1 minute ago, Ekona said:

I've not driven a Golf R, no. I have no desire to either, but at the same time I've already said I wouldn't take one over an R35.

 

If you honestly believe your last sentence, then I really don't think this is the conversation for you. Doc already pointed out a ton of reasons why someone might pick an R over an R35. And given that we've already proved that an R35 is cheaper than a new R, saying that one is outside of the average Joe is ridiculous

True there are some sub £30k ones but if you cant afford a good R35 GTR you sure as hell cant afford a bad one , a good one is £45k plus 

[Richf]

4 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Anyway, laptimes. Further apart than I expected tbh, Bedford West is a good comparison which is 1:26:10 for the R and 1:20:10 for the GT-R. The only caveat is that Tiff was in the Nissan and Prosser in the VW, and I think it's reasonable enough to say that the former isn't as quick a driver! Still, that's a bigger gap than I thought, I stand corrected.

Almost certainly a dsg Golf R as well