What would you choose.

[Wasso]

Ultima - that's my next step and I'd be pushing for that if I was you.  You clearly want something road and track, so that rules out a Radical.

 

I've heard and seen that the Ultima is very noisy..... although V8 and weighing next to nothing is a huge attraction and equally has some decent down force.

[Jetpilot]

Sorry as elsewhere in here, i have zero interest in Porshces or Audis.

 

Personally i dont think you can define "fun", yes i enjoy a rwd manual but i cant say i would have less fun in say a Gtr, just a different type of fun, much the same from my fi'd 350 to my Vx220. I also dont share the same definition of rwd, na, manual as being the pinnacle of motoring, if i can change gear quicker with paddles, great in my book, if it was purity i was after, i would just get a Caterham. I do agree though i would probably enjoy the M3 much more on track for those very reason over the A45, but i dont think i would have less fun.

 

1M is a good shout, but when you can buy what you have for a fraction of the cost with 99% of the performance, i just couldnt justify the outlay.

 

However, sorry to say Sipar there isnt a chance in hell i would spend £40k on an A45, if the budget is at £40k its going to be an Ultima or Nissan but thank you very much for the offer of a pm  I do really need to get a drive in one, the problem is, its only ever going to be a dealer car on the road, hopefully that will at least provide some feedback and feeling for what it would be like own and drive on track.

 

I very much like the idea of an Ultima although i think you would tire quickly of using it on the road, lack of windows/power steering etc, there is a dude locally selling one so may make a polite phone call and see is we would have a chat.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by Jetpilot

[sipar69]

Fair play bud. Horses for courses.  I'm happy with what I got for the money.  One big thing I've learnt from my experience is that you can still have an awful lot of fun in a car with auto box and 4wd.  Different kind of fun to a manual/RWD but still fun. 

[Wasso]

I tried 3 times to get a drive in the Ultima. A track experience cat thing, somewhere near Bedford but each time it was scheduled it was cancelled due to technical issues with the car.

 

I also believe building the Ultima plays a good part towards me experience.

 

 

[coldel]

2018 Mustang? (or is that out of price? cannot be bothered to check!)

[Jetpilot]

Good lord no 

[coldel]

 actually a quick google of Mustang Track Car pops this up, looks pretty cool actually!

 

[Jetpilot]

Over an E92, not a chance!

[coldel]

Ah, buy your E92 but if you ever get overtaken by a Mustang on track you must hang your head in shame and remember I was right 

 

TWR VXR8 with money left over to blow on many things for it?

 

(just trying to think outside the obvious..!)

[Kev]

E92 are starting to look very dated, especially inside. 

 

Some nasty engine issues beginning to become common to add to the throttle actuator and other issues. 

 

Biggest problem is is they feel slow on the road, they really need to be rev'd to access the performance. Great on track but not on the road. 

 

M2's are currently shedding value like dandruff after the announcement of the engine change/upgrade next year. Look good value now. 

[Jetpilot]

An E92 is a better car in every single way and as above, i had a 350z, vx220, i am not in slightest bit worried about dated looks and as for being slow i disagree and with an ess charger kit, it certainly wouldnt be that at 600+ bhp.

[Kev]

3 minutes ago, Jetpilot said:

An E92 is a better car in every single way and as above, i had a 350z, vx220, i am not in slightest bit worried about dated looks and as for being slow i disagree and with an ess charger kit, it certainly wouldnt be that at 600+ bhp.

Fair play if you're going that route. A lot do which kinda backs up my point. As standard they're not quick for everyday use. They do feel slow on the road compared to modern, 4wd, turbo hatchbacks. Or even a tuned 335i. It's all at the top end. 

 

Sound epic pic with a Akrapovic exhaust though and the DCT gearbox is awesome. 

 

I enjoyed my my brief stint in one. Hammered me in company car tax though. 

[Jetpilot]

Well, that was quick, deposit taken on the VX, wasnt really expecting it, i replied to a wanted ad and full asking price given

 

So a winter off and see where i end up, plenty of time for research

[grahamc]

Having just come from 6 years of owning a GTR, with lots of time on track..... yes they are silly quick on track, but they are a GT car first, so it would depend on your goals. If you are intent on being the fastest thing out there and cost is of no concern, then yes the GTR is going to be good. If, however, you don't care too much about being the fastest and its more about the fun aspect, the GTR is not the car for you.

 

I also ran a non supercharged MX5 (MK2) as a track car and that was a lot more fun than the GTR on track. When the MX5 got a SC it went from being the slowest (on small tracks) to only being passed by R8 V10s and GTRs   and it was absolutely awesome to drive on track!!

 

If like the rest of us, you want a car that is good at a mix, then the GTR is still very good.... long road trip over to Europe (Transalpina, Transfagarasan, etc) it is superb! It was an absolute pleasure and being able to drive the twisties and manage 190mph (derestricted) is just brilliant.

 

The costs of running the car though, are very high.... tyres, well I killed a branded new set of R888Rs in 1 day at Bruntingthorpe, so that's 1k... Brakes, I was running Alcon discs and RS29 pads. 2 sets of pads to set of discs on the front. Pads were about 450 for the front set and discs were about 6-700 for the front set. You will be amazed how quickly it all adds up, especially when you start adding things like gearbox coolers (2.5k), suspensions (litchfields 4k+) and god forbid the gearbox goes.... 8k to rebuild roughly (once damaged).

 

Personally, I would choose something old, reliable and fun - Datsun 240z, Ford Escort MK1, etc as the first car and then something like an Aston, C63 AMG or even a very big comfortable 4x4, etc as the second car.

[gangzoom]

On 13/09/2017 at 14:32, Kev said:

Or even a tuned 335i. It's all at the top end. 

 

How much are E92 335i? You can probably pick one up for not much more than £5k. Stick on a Quaife LSD, better dampers, remap it and your have something nearly as quick as the current M3 for less than £10k.

 

The tubros might blow, fuel pump need doing, and if you really want to track it your need an aftermarket oil cooler. But if your budget is £40k and the car £5k, that's a massive mod budget, and because the guys over the pound love the 335i your modding options are almost endless you can literally go nuts - last time I looked 4/5 years ago people were shooting for 600-700 WHP. Your probably still have change from your budget too!!

 

They will also do the day to day stuff fine, infotainment system is dated but plenty of aftermarket options, happy to sit at 150mph+ whilst your other half sleeps in passneger seat.

 

I also don't think they will deprecate that much more. I couldn't think of another petrol car to replace my old with, not without really upping the budget. Given how cheap they are now really is a performance bargin.

Edited September 29, 2017 by gangzoom

[Kev]

4 minutes ago, gangzoom said:

 

How much are E92 335i? You can probably pick one up for not much more than £5k. Stick on a Quaife LSD, better dampers, remap it and your have something nearly as quick as the current M3 for less than £10k.

 

The tubros might blow, fuel pump need doing, and if you really want to track it your need an aftermarket oil cooler. But if your budget is £40k and the car £5k, that's a massive mod budget, and because the guys over the pound love the 335i your modding options are almost endless you can literally go nuts - last time I looked 4/5 years ago people were shooting for 600-700 WHP. Your probably still have change from your budget too!!

 

They will also do the day to day stuff fine, infotainment system is dated but plenty of aftermarket options, happy to sit at 150mph+ whilst your other half sleeps in passneger seat.

 

I also don't think they will deprecate that much more. I couldn't think of another petrol car to replace my old with, not without really upping the budget.

I love the current f80 m3. It's frustrating that BMW want so much for the carbon stick on bits to make the car look finished. 

 

I agree about the 335i. Even as standard they feel quicker on the road than a e92 m3. I know they're not but its all top end in the old m3. 

 

The current f80 has crazy low down torque. It's actually scary. They are unreal value aswell. 

 

Bmw messed up offering huge discounts. Residuals got battered then they released the comp pack. IMO no other car comes close for the money. 

 

It it will be the last m3 with RWD and DCT too. 4wd and slush box for the next one.  

[gangzoom]

Ok, so looks like 700+WHP on a N54 block is pretty attainable these days.

 

Bare in mind thats 700bhp at the wheels, RWD with a TC system you can actually 100% disengage, and weighs a good amount less than a GTR. My old 335i with 380WHP had problems going in a striaght line at WOT on anything but bone dry baby bottom smooth tarmac, with double the power it would be an 'interesting' experience to put all that power down without ending up in a hedge!!

 

http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthread.php?76677-Just-another-700-whp-BMW-335i-Precision-6266-turbocharged-E90-N54-running-straight-E85-produces-737-rwhp

 

** Ok looks the above is running ethanol rich E85 fuel, which probably needed to keep the thing cool as much as power generation. So for UK road use your have turn down the boost and use a different map, but I'll be amazed if these days you cannot get a N54 to run at 500WHP on normal unleaded.

Edited September 29, 2017 by gangzoom

[Kev]

U.K. Roads are the problem. That much power and torque through the back wheels is a nightmare. 

 

A standard f80 tried to kill me on a roundabout at low speed. Good job no one else was around. They bite hard. 

[docwra]

I was actually having the same conversation with someone this morning, my N54 is 430hp and 550lb/ft and you need to know what youre doing to drive it quick, a 700hp one would be uncontrollable. 

 

I think there are going to be a few "recently completed" N54 builds go up for sale as people realise they have overdone things somewhat .......  

[Ekona]

1 hour ago, Kev said:

U.K. Roads are the problem. That much power and torque through the back wheels is a nightmare. 

 

A standard f80 tried to kill me on a roundabout at low speed. Good job no one else was around. They bite hard. 

That's because the suspension is utterly dire on the F80. Horrible, horrible cars. I wouldn't drive one again if you paid me, they remain the only road car I've ever driven that I felt like I had zero control over what was actually happening.

[Kev]

3 minutes ago, Ekona said:

That's because the suspension is utterly dire on the F80. Horrible, horrible cars. I wouldn't drive one again if you paid me, they remain the only road car I've ever driven that I felt like I had zero control over what was actually happening.

I agree about the suspension. Its easily sorted with KW's though. 

 

My my first drive put me off. Genuinely scared me. Aparantley the new software and suspension on the cp improves things massively. 

 

Part of me likes the savage torque of the early cars though. They sound great with a mpe or Akra too. 

 

Cheaper used cars are great value. Wish I could afford to spec a new cp but it's not a option at the moment. 

[gangzoom]

2 hours ago, docwra said:

I was actually having the same conversation with someone this morning, my N54 is 430hp and 550lb/ft and you need to know what youre doing to drive it quick, a 700hp one would be uncontrollable. 

 

I think there are going to be a few "recently completed" N54 builds go up for sale as people realise they have overdone things somewhat .......  

 

I thought you could never have too much power

[Jetpilot]

I think its very safe to say i wont be buying a 335i, no matter what you can or cant get out of them  its never going to be as good as the departing VX so why would i take a step back.

 

Thanks for the info on the GTR Graham, i appreciate the running costs are pricey (currently researching) and things could go south very quickly if things start giving up the ghost and on earlier cars i guess they are just hitting that age where these problems will be an issue and its my main concern with that route.

 

If i go down the two car route (unlikely) i would simply get a Westfield (or similar) with a Busa engine. 

 

Currently the Ultima is what i am leaning too if funds allow, whilst they may be a "kit car", its a pretty simple concept with pretty simple engineering, the sbc engines have been around years and parts plentiful and i am also under the impression the Ultima factory will give any car a 400+ point health check.

[Rock_Steady]

On 9/13/2017 at 14:19, Kev said:

E92 are starting to look very dated, especially inside. 

 

Some nasty engine issues beginning to become common to add to the throttle actuator and other issues. 

 

Biggest problem is is they feel slow on the road, they really need to be rev'd to access the performance. Great on track but not on the road. 

 

M2's are currently shedding value like dandruff after the announcement of the engine change/upgrade next year. Look good value now. 

Look dated?!?! I'd have to disagree. I think they still look contemporary. I'd have a supercharged E92 any day. i still think they're one of the best looking cars on the road.  Classy. 

[docwra]

On 29/09/2017 at 16:44, gangzoom said:

 

I thought you could never have too much power

 

Interestingly enough we were having this exact conversation following a trackday at Spa on Monday - those present were driving E92 M3's, a 987 Cayman S and an F80 M3, me in mine as well. All the lads can pedal a bit and were seeing 2.47 - 2.55m laps 

 

We all agreed that the Porsche could probably use another 50hp but the BMW's had plenty, as true track cars it might been be worth backing them off a bit. Cant imagine I would have said that 10 years ago but its definitely the case now, particularly when it was wet.