23rd September 2017

[Ekona]

Thanks Davey. From my reading of that, it basically says that God is going to sit back and do absolutely nothing whatsoever, even in the face of extreme suffering caused by no fault of the person in pain.

 

How could you want to worship someone that evil and cruel? No need to answer that one.

[davey_83]

24 minutes ago, Zeezeebaba said:

The bible doesn't describe dinosaurs in any shape or form only animals that existed circa 400 AD

 

Sorry if I can answer all questions in a timely manner but I will try LOL

 

Bible's description of a dinosaur-like animal is recorded in Job chapter 40.

 

“Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God…” (Job 40:15-19). It was a gigantic plant-eater with great muscles and very strong bones.

 

The book of Job is very old, probably written around 2,000 years before Jesus was born.

Edited July 7, 2017 by davey_83

[davey_83]

7 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Thanks Davey. From my reading of that, it basically says that God is going to sit back and do absolutely nothing whatsoever, even in the face of extreme suffering caused by no fault of the person in pain.

 

How could you want to worship someone that evil and cruel? No need to answer that one.

 

Yes sat back a long time ago, I have faith in his master plan. The story of Job (sounds like Jobe) shows this and to maintain the faith. Awful story about his life.

[Zeezeebaba]

1 minute ago, davey_83 said:

 

Sorry if I can answer all questions in a timely manner but I will try LOL

 

Bible's description of a dinosaur-like animal is recorded in Job chapter 40.

 

“Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God…” (Job 40:15-19).

 

The book of Job is very old, probably written around 2,000 years before Jesus was born.

Again as I've said this isn't a fact in any shape or form. It's an interpretation of an animal that existed when the bible was edited and put together. Originally it was thought Job was referring to a Hippo but could have been anything and certainly not described as a specific prehistoric animal. Your clutching at straws mate.

[davey_83]

45 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Source for that?

 

Genesis 6:15
"This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.

 

No ship had ever been built before this, so no test or trial demo to be created to discover how to build a ship. It had to be right first time, man would not have guessed the dimension on his own. Similar dimension are used for ship building today.

 

 

[Zeezeebaba]

10 minutes ago, davey_83 said:

 

Genesis 6:15
"This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.

 

No ship had ever been built before this, so no test or trial demo to be created to discover how to build a ship. It had to be right first time, man would not have guessed the dimension on his own. Similar dimension are used for ship building today.

 

 

Islamic text states the flood was regional not global, but then the faith was regional not global. Entire civilisations existed before and after totally unaware of Christianity until indoctrinated and colonised . The Romans had already conquered Britannia when the bible was collated and knew how to build boats, Genesis being old testament has been debunked and is considered hearsay by progressives in light of scientific knowledge. A boat that size would not have held the entire animal population globally and would have needed to be far larger than that. Some say as much as 500 miles long!

Edited July 7, 2017 by Zeezeebaba

[coldel]

23 minutes ago, davey_83 said:

 

Sorry if I can answer all questions in a timely manner but I will try LOL

 

Bible's description of a dinosaur-like animal is recorded in Job chapter 40.

 

“Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God…” (Job 40:15-19). It was a gigantic plant-eater with great muscles and very strong bones.

 

The book of Job is very old, probably written around 2,000 years before Jesus was born.

 

Sounds like an Elephant? Actually throws up an interesting point though, fossils haven't just been discovered in the last 200 years, I wonder what people in Roman times made of finding these things when excavating ground? I wonder if their interpretation of it might have been the above, finding monsters and behemoths? 

 

On the Ark, interestingly there is no evidence of it being the first ship ever built - its impossible to know by all accounts (thanks Google) as all we know as evidence is the oldest ship ever found. Seems many historians put ship building as far back as 2500BC or older. 

[Zeezeebaba]

You need to realise that if Constantine didn't adopt and promote Christianity then this discussion probably wouldn't be taking place. The faith would have remained local to its area of origin. It's just one in a line of many different belief systems both before and after.

It's not fact at all but a very effective means of social cohesion that worked well at the time.

 

[coldel]

This is harder than politics! Great thread, I am doing some reading up on this as certainly no expert, and the only webpages are either creationists or the direct opposite, one writing quite fanciful vague things interpreting some vague text as a definitive answer, whilst the other writes something verging on aggressive anger.

 

The Ark debate is a good one online though, some students at Leicester Uni worked it out that if the ark was built as described, yes it would float, but the estimated number of species in that day would need to be in cages that literally would fit their size and no more, all the animals could fit without it sinking (assume an average weight level). Of course if you put on a days worth of food for all the animals they would have sunk by some margin but it was an interesting study. 

 

An interesting point from one of the 'angry ones' Noah and his three sons built the ark, which given boat building practices that would have been in play would have meant 80-90 years to build it (ignoring the fact they would have died of old age), which would have meant they would never have finished it as the wood would have started rotting away well before they finished it. 

[Zeezeebaba]

The Egyptians were knocking up pyramids around 2500bc as well. 

There are plenty of fairly advanced civilisations that go back further than that, all pre dating mono theism.

Modern humans have always had the capacity to think as they do today and brain power was no different, the more educated in any tome period will have the upper hand. Only the advances in technology divide us.

We know evolution is a fact as it's still happening today. We are still evolving as a species. On the microscopic level certain organisms can adapt and evolve to change overnight. 

And yet we still have people so one tracked in their doom laden religious nonsense some are affecting the future prosperity of our species.

I was born at least 500 years to early it would seem.

Oh dear some of the tosh spouted my way at church when younger makes me cringe now.

 

[Ekona]

29 minutes ago, davey_83 said:

 

Genesis 6:15
"This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.

 

No ship had ever been built before this, so no test or trial demo to be created to discover how to build a ship. It had to be right first time, man would not have guessed the dimension on his own. Similar dimension are used for ship building today.

 

 

Thanks, do you have the source for where experts in their field have confirmed this?

[Zeezeebaba]

10 minutes ago, Ekona said:

Thanks, do you have the source for where experts in their field have confirmed this?

 

Also I would like to add to this by saying a cubit wasn't a standard length. If an Ark was constructed which is unlikely it could have been any number of sizes. Of course Christians will prefer the larger cubit for Ark purposes

[AliveBoy]

And like that, I'm out. I was fine until the usual, yeah killing innocent children is his mysterious ways.

 

No being that should be applauded would allow innocent children to die in agony, to be raped and to be murdered. Children aren't born with inherent sin, they're born with innocence and potential. Anyone who disagrees is a word I'm not allowed to write on here. I'm closing the door to this post before I say something to get me in trouble with the forum.

 

[Jetpilot]

Thou shall not......

 

So what happens if you break the 10 commandments, or is the answer f*ck all?

[mouthwash]

 

[coldel]

I think that video (it was funny watching!) actually though I think proves evolution and disproves god. That the book written by some 'scientists' called the bible attempted to make sense of the world through the idea of a god explaining things that happened because they couldn't using very basic evidence that was put before them (the behemoth could be an elephant, the great flood could have been localised flooding of the nile etc. must be a divine being?). Then other scientists come along and challenge it and attempt to update the thinking using evidence put before them using the better technology at their disposal and a greater level of evidence they have now accumulated. And so on and so forth.

 

So I say to you, that religion and science are distant cousins, evolving from one into the other?  You read it here first 

 

[Ekona]

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[davey_83]

hey all, properly to answer all the above I can do after work.

 

What I found interesting about dinosaur bit *obviously a modern name given for such beast that did exist before man is:

 

He is the first of the ways of God; only He who made him can bring near His sword (Job 40:15–19)

 

Of course the Bible can be interpreted any number of ways, the same as any other book for movie for example. That sentence for to Job is describing a type of animal that Job would not be able to see, otherwise why not just go any see that beast for yourself?

 

Then it looks as if not only was this beast before man, but God brought an end to them as he was the one who made them. Im not sure of any animal with a tail like a large tree that was on land and ate plants?

 

-----------

 

According to The Bible, God instructed Noah to build a boat (to carry two of each kind of land animal) which was 300 cubits long 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high – recommending gopher wood for the enormous lifeboat.

 

The students averaged out the Egyptian and Hebrew cubit measurement to come up with 48.2cm, making the Ark around 144 metres long – about 100 metres shorter than Ark Royal.

Using the dimensions, the Archimedes principal of buoyancy and approximate animal wrights they were astonished to find out that the Ark would have floated.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/scientists-noahs-arc-would-have-floated-with-70000-animals-if-built-by-dimensions-in-the-bible-2014-4?IR=T

 

Thread is purely to share ideas from the OP and beyond, not to sell faith lol

[coldel]

3 minutes ago, davey_83 said:

hey all, properly to answer all the above I can do after work.

 

What I found interesting about dinosaur bit *obviously a modern name given for such beast that did exist before man is:

 

He is the first of the ways of God; only He who made him can bring near His sword (Job 40:15–19)

 

Of course the Bible can be interpreted any number of ways, the same as any other book for movie for example. That sentence for to Job is describing a type of animal that Job would not be able to see, otherwise why not just go any see that beast for yourself?

 

Then it looks as if not only was this beast before man, but God brought an end to them as he was the one who made them. Im not sure of any animal with a tail like a large tree that was on land and ate plants?

 

-----------

 

According to The Bible, God instructed Noah to build a boat (to carry two of each kind of land animal) which was 300 cubits long 50 cubits wide and 30 cubits high – recommending gopher wood for the enormous lifeboat.

 

The students averaged out the Egyptian and Hebrew cubit measurement to come up with 48.2cm, making the Ark around 144 metres long – about 100 metres shorter than Ark Royal.

Using the dimensions, the Archimedes principal of buoyancy and approximate animal wrights they were astonished to find out that the Ark would have floated.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/scientists-noahs-arc-would-have-floated-with-70000-animals-if-built-by-dimensions-in-the-bible-2014-4?IR=T

 

Thread is purely to share ideas from the OP and beyond, not to sell faith lol

 

What did the animals eat and drink for the 100 days or so it was afloat? For two elephants that would equate to around 90 tonnes of fresh veggies over say 100 days. How did they stop the veggies going off? 

[davey_83]

LOL drugs

 

Logic would suggest yeah impossible, but he who built the world can surely feed two elephants for a couple months I guess. Im not a Bible SME nor would it be fair to expect me to be, I can answer what I know at least.

[coldel]

I think it would have ended up a free for all, Lions eating smaller herbivores etc. Would have been a case of natural selection as to what got off lol I guess this is the defining line, whereas common logic would say its impossible, thats where 'god' steps in as a solution and probably how he came about when people writing the book didnt know any better and gods/groups of gods were springing up all across the globe at that point in time.

 

We are all scientists, except that one group accepts gaps in knowledge and looks to fill it with something earthly, the other accepts the gaps as being filled by a mystical entity. But, both groups are actually a lot closer in what they believe than you might think?

 

I call it coldel theorem(c)350z-uk.com...

[StevoD]

I watched the film about the floods. Evan Almighty I don't think it was the first boat made..

 

 

 

 

Sorry couldn't help myself 

[coldel]

16 minutes ago, StevoD said:

I watched the film about the floods. Evan Almighty I don't think it was the first boat made..

 

 

 

 

Sorry couldn't help myself 

 

 Dude, fix that signature!

[mattross1313]

4 minutes ago, coldel said:

 

 Dude, fix that signature!

Not sure for mobile, but on laptop there is an option to hide the signature for a specific user, or all users.

Needless to say I have just this second enabled that option 

[davey_83]

44 minutes ago, coldel said:

I think it would have ended up a free for all, Lions eating smaller herbivores etc. Would have been a case of natural selection as to what got off lol I guess this is the defining line, whereas common logic would say its impossible, thats where 'god' steps in as a solution and probably how he came about when people writing the book didnt know any better and gods/groups of gods were springing up all across the globe at that point in time.

 

We are all scientists, except that one group accepts gaps in knowledge and looks to fill it with something earthly, the other accepts the gaps as being filled by a mystical entity. But, both groups are actually a lot closer in what they believe than you might think?

 

I call it coldel theorem(c)350z-uk.com...

 

Its a puzzle no doubt, however to even consider that two of the animals would get a text to say head to the boat and follow this gps is wonders in itself and no doubt a miracle? Either it all happened or non of it happen is the debate, not the how did they all get along during the time afloat as the miracle has already happen to get the animals to the boat in the first place.

 

Scientist fill gaps in knowledge with theory, which is basically I have no idea but this is what I think. I cant test this nor can I replicate it but for now these ideas are the best I can muster. The Bible leaves no gaps, the only gaps left by the Bible are our own understanding of the scriptures.

 

Job would not have been able to imagine what God described to him long before Jesus, however now we would know it to be a dinosaur.

 

Information is stored in the blood about a person, bible said long before medicine came to understand this.

 

Commination at the speed of light was stated in the Bible long before electrify was invented.

 

Yes all guess work it would seem?

 

Miracles are in my belief system and not in science, however we are all here somehow. Bible provides its reason for this - science doesn't nor will it ever.