TT350 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Anyone else sick of it? From the snippets of news I've caught up with today, I see they're trying to shift blame for the tower fire on a fridge somehow? Like a get out clause? Even brand specific, like a witch hunt! No one ever says "Yes, I cocked right up. I'm sorry" Spineless. Am I totally wrong? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraingeZed Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Anyone else sick of it? From the snippets of news I've caught up with today, I see they're trying to shift blame for the tower fire on a fridge somehow? Like a get out clause? Even brand specific, like a witch hunt! No one ever says "Yes, I cocked right up. I'm sorry" Spineless. Am I totally wrong? Agreed!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsy1980 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 The whole world seems to revolve around blaming someone else for every little thing that turns to sh!t, just another example of the compensation culture that has driven the growth of the leeches that are the no win no fee, PPI etc etc. And as for those morons running around with their crappy banners on a 'Day of Rage' blaming the Tories for the fire ? Seriously ? im starting to think 75% of the population are backwards. Don't get me wrong, what happened in the fire was horrific, probably the worst way to go in my opinion, but there is no single person to blame it was a series of screw ups by many people. The important thing is they learn from the mistakes and put them right before any more disasters happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyleR Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 The blame has been on a fridge exploding since day zero, that has always been the cause. The cladding is the reason it managed to spread and something else is at fault for the alarms either not working or at least being ineffective. Blame isn't shifting anywhere as these things have been known since it happened. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 The blame has been on a fridge exploding since day zero, that has always been the cause. The cladding is the reason it managed to spread and something else is at fault for the alarms either not working or at least being ineffective. Blame isn't shifting anywhere as these things have been known since it happened. OK. I didn't know. I've backed off reading the news lately. Grim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeezeebaba Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) It all came from across the pond, not the cladding but the blame and counter claim culture . Money from misery as usual. Edited June 23, 2017 by Zeezeebaba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMANALEX Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 What KyleR has said: ^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 This will run and run and the fridge manufacturer (Hotpoint) will not shoulder the largeest proportion of blame, if any. According to buliding safety experts a fire in a high rise unit (flat) should, in theory, remain self contained. When this one didn't it travelled alarmingly fast because of problems (as yet not fully determind) with the cladding. Police have said late today that there are likely to be criminal charges and possibly leading to manslaughter regarding the supply of incorrect cladding instead of that specified in building plans. Even Premier Inn have been affected at 2 properties I beleive, and they are pursuing this with the contractor. So, it does rather look like that some very senior people in some large businesses could be experiencing jail time. As far as I can tell the Fridge/Freezer ( and who knows how it was installed ) caused the original fire but the death toll was caused it seems by shockingly bad building practices. There is also of course, the question regarding building regulations and whether if even the correct cladding is up to the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I can kinda see where TT350 is coming from, tbh. It wasn't just a firdge freezer, it was a Hotpoint fridge freezer model number FF175BP or FF175BG, and suddenly we're being told to contact the manufacturer despite there being no question so far that there was anything untoward in the design of said appliance. Straight away Hotpoint are going to suffer short-term, and that doesn't seem very fair to me. It's details being released for no reason other than to panic people. Same as with Premier Inn. People died, and someone will go to jail because of that. Not because they deserve to, in fact it may yet prove to be a catalogue of errors, but this is so public that if there is no prosecution then the CPS will be slaughtered in the press. Rather than simply seek to find the truth and make sure it never happens again, there's this rampant undercurrent of desire to punish someone, anyone. It's been festering for a while now (look how the intelligence services got attacked over Manchester and London), and this is just an extension of it. I'm not saying there should be no prosecution if someone has broken the law, but it could at least wait until the investigation is complete, which we're a light year from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Don't disagree with any of that Dan ,was simply stating what has come out in the last 24 hours for the benefit of TT350 who has been a very naughty boy and not watching or listening to the news. I know how he feels, ther have been occassions lately when I have turned it off, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Oh I agree, I wasn't replying directly to you matey. Does my head in when Jo doesn't watch any news at all. Makes having a conversation about current affairs impossible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 No one is going to jail for this, some organisation will get a huge fine and there will be "lessons learned". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Would that still be the case if it's proceed to be corporate manslaughter? I get it threatened against me every day by my boss, and that it'll be me going to jail etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 You can still go to jail for that, yeah. Rarely done, but in this case I think there may be a political desire for it to happen. Put it this way, I'm glad I'm not the director of the company that installed the cladding/firestopping. And yeah, I run this risk every day by working with potable water. It's terrifying if you ever stop to think about just what would happen if you didn't disinfect something properly... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 No one is going to jail for this, some organisation will get a huge fine and there will be "lessons learned". I really hope you are very wrong Stu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glrnet Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Oh I agree, I wasn't replying directly to you matey. Does my head in when Jo doesn't watch any news at all. Makes having a conversation about current affairs impossible! Completely the opposite in this household, Joy is like a "news" sponge. Drives me nuts sometimes when she interupts a good programme with "what do you think about the current sheep shortage in Outer Mongolia?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 No one is going to jail for this, some organisation will get a huge fine and there will be "lessons learned". I really hope you are very wrong Stu. Yeah, me too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Lols at News Sponge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 When I drove tesco delivery vans we were told if we left the van running while we delivered and it was stolen and someone got killed the driver would be at fault for leaving the keys in ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-G- Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) The blame has been on a fridge exploding since day zero, that has always been the cause. The cladding is the reason it managed to spread and something else is at fault for the alarms either not working or at least being ineffective. Blame isn't shifting anywhere as these things have been known since it happened. Wouldn't have mattered if the Alarms had worked. The advice from the Housing Association and the Fire Service was in the event of fire, STAY PUT. That advice was predicated on the assumption that the block is designed to compartmentalise and restrict the spread of fires. The cladding fundamentally changed the fire rating of the building, obviously no cause & effect analysis / risk assessment / management of change performed prior to commissioning the upgrades. The residents brought up the issues of fire safety multiple times but we're fobbed off, threatened with legal action or told to take it to court (with no legal aid, as Cameron cut it 7 years ago) That's where the true scandal lies. I agree that posting pictures of the poor c@nt who's Fridge Freezer blew up is completely out of order, but what do you expect from newspapers these days? They get a better reaction blaming some foreign lad for his faulty appliance than using the headline "Austerity Kills" The immediate reaction of folk was commendable, but since then we've seen well-off Kensington resident's throwing tantrums because some of these survivors might get housed in the same complex as them. Really? Anyone could move next door to you and you wouldn't know how or where they got their money. They could be a drug dealer or a blood diamond slave master, but you don't care, he's rich so must DESERVE to be there. But the minute someone who you KNOW is **** poor and previously lived in a council high-rise, you lose your sh*t about having them move next door!? I despair. Edited June 24, 2017 by -G- 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Actually I think they've got a fair point: Why should someone who has been successful in life and worked hard to get to where they are be given the same things as those who haven't? Nowt wrong with putting them there as a temporary solution, but it's not fair on anyone if they get to live there permanently. We see this all the time on a smaller scale, when the council decides to house crappy tenants next door to someone who is just an Average Joe, and then it turns out that the person is absolute scum and doesn't give a rat's ass about anything, generally being a crappy neighbour. I'm not saying that all who lived in Grenfell Tower were scum, but at the same time it's easy to see why the folks who live in the nicer parts of Kensington may not be happy with the decision. People fear change, and people rightly get the hump when others are given stuff for free that they've had to work hard for. Also let's not forget that some of the tenants were also on the group of people that decided not to worry about trivial things like fire safety. No-one deserved what happened, but sometimes the blame doesn't always lie with those at the top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stutopia Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 The most pathetic objection so far I've read was from one of the Nice But-Dims saying, "Ya guys, I mean I'm totally for people having houses ya, even poor people and some refugees, but I really fear that some of these guys were illegal sublets, so you know, err, I don't think these illegal landlords should now get to live, you know, near me yeah? It's seriously unfair guys, I'm just looking out for the little guy." Dressing up being a snob as social justice is a new nadir. The folk who live "in the nicer parts of Kensington" desperately need protection from these paupers. I mean if every day any one of us had to see places which you know to be crawling with people on under £70k a year, we'd simply move. Right guys? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay84 Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I agree with both Dan and Stu on this one. I agree if you've worked hard for something, like being able to afford a nice house in a nice area, but then someone to be just gifted it at the councils expense, I can imagine that to be frustrating. But whats the alternative? They can't stay in shelters, and I can't see them knocking up a new tower for them. Trying to relocate that quantity of people quickly and fairly must be difficult. When I lived with my mum, my next door neighbours (semi) house caught fire. Our house was badly smoke damaged. but we had as much insurance as you can get, got put in a rented house same village for 6 months while our house was redecorate and re roofed. Everything in our attic was replaced, as were some electronics...and my train set (no jokes please). Now for the frustrating bits. The fire was caused by the neighbours leaving fabric sofas pushed against old school storage heaters. They had house insurance, but not contents as the believed god would provide (born again Christians who saw insurance as gambling). Now the house insurance covered the redecoration etc, but they also had EVERYTHING replaced internally, FOC despite lack of insurance. Now at the time it was frustrating for us and parents that we pay, and they don't, and they got the same benefits as us. In hindsight, I don't much care. My wife cares too much about what other people get gifted, by rich family members or insurance companies. I look at it from a pride point of view, that as little as we may think we have, we did it ALL ourselves and can be proud we are independent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetpilot Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I am sorry to say, this was a terrible tragedy, but can you really foot the blame at hotpoint or the installers of the cladding? Surely anything with 240v going to it runs the risk of combusting, even if its 1 in a million, whats next, ev owners suing because their batteries caught fire? I am with TT, it was a terrible chain of events, i do not know why someone has to be at blame for people to feel vindicated and i personally see no way of proving without doubt that the building would not have had the same fate with different cladding etc. I would also bet there are 1000's if not millions of buildings in the uk that are way more a tinder box than this one, whats the answer, condemn every one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT350 Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 I usually read MSN news every day in full but lately it's just brought my mood right down. I'm doing a lot less focusing on other people and events these days and just concentrating on my own. It's been very beneficial. The blame thing does really annoying me. Like one person said, they're just looking for someone, anyone, to shift blame to. "It wasn't our fault. It was x manufacturer" Just as annoying is the lust for heads to roll that the public displays. It seems true justice is irrelevant just as long as SOMEONE gets the blame. It's a tumultuous melee out there. A mosh pit of revenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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