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Rev Matching - possible to "over rev"?


Colin747

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While I understand the theory of heel-toe downshifting I've always wondered if there is a tolerance to what RPM range you should attempt to match or does bringing the engine speed too far over the transmission speed just is damaging? i.e. Should you be within X RPM of the transmission speed when you blip the throttle?

 

To give an example to explain what I mean:

 

Perfect scenario - I'm driving in third at 2,000 RPM and downshift into second. I blip the throttle to 3,000 RPM and when the clutch is released the revs stay at 3,000 RPM (the actual RPM of the transmission).

 

Hypothetical scenario - I'm driving in third at 2,000 RPM and downshift into second. I blip the throttle to 4,500 RPM and when the clutch is released the revs drop to 3,000 RPM (the actual RPM of the transmission).

 

Is that hypothetical scenario causing just as much wear to the clutch compared to not rev-matching at all?

Edited by Colin747
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That is indeed what you'll do (as well as press the brakes too hard and all kinds of other fun nooby errors) while learning to heel-toe, but you'll get the hang of it. Nothing else needs to be said. Learn by doing and it'll come to you. The right shoes help (there are no right shoes, its a personal thing), and a lightweight flywheel made it a little easier for me, cos the default throttle input on the Z is a bit laggy (why some people fit those pedal booster things) so the light flywheel helps the engine get up and down a bit quicker. I still don't always hit exactly exactly the revs I want (and in these cases, you can be quicker or slower with the clutch to correct, to a point) especially when I'm driving 'excitedly', but it's close enough. :) Slightly over-revving is somewhat damped by the fact you're on the brakes anyway, under revving simply feels like you didn't heel-toe enough, so slows you down markedly faster, again not the end of the world but will ruin your line on turn in.

Edited by Aashenfox
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That is indeed what you'll do (as well as press the brakes too hard and all kinds of other fun nooby errors) while learning to heel-toe, but you'll get the hang of it. Nothing else needs to be said. Learn by doing and it'll come to you. The right shoes help (there are no right shoes, its a personal thing), and a lightweight flywheel made it a little easier for me, cos the default throttle input on the Z is a bit laggy (why some people fit those pedal booster things) so the light flywheel helps the engine get up and down a bit quicker. I still don't always hit exactly exactly the revs I want (and in these cases, you can be quicker or slower with the clutch to correct, to a point) especially when I'm driving 'excitedly', but it's close enough. :) Slightly over-revving is somewhat damped by the fact you're on the brakes anyway, under revving simply feels like you didn't heel-toe enough, so slows you down markedly faster, again not the end of the world but will ruin your line on turn in.

 

Thanks for your reply, a lightweight flywheel is certainly on my list of things to do. It probably doesn't help that I'm normally in heavy boots when trying it haha ahh well, it's all a learning experience

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Welcome mate.

 

Any thin soled, slim shoe is a good driving shoe. I use to daily wear a pair of these (Adidas Monaco, I think), they are not pro driving shoes, they're driving oriented fashion shoes, but they are an excellent driving shoe, and a nice looking trainer. I will never be someone who changes shoes to go for a drive, so my 'daily' trainers have to take this into account when I buy them. :) I do not drive spiritedly in my work shoes (not boots, leather soled slip ons, but equally inappropriate), I would never forgive myself if I 'messed it up' because of that. ;)

 

3922d5b8-fa5f-4031-ad1c-a197311529cf.jpg

Edited by Aashenfox
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neither are good... in extreme examples, under revving might lock the driven wheels, and induce a spin akin to pulling the handbrake. over revving may cause the rear wheels to over rotate, also inducing a spin akin to a clutch kick/doing a burnout.

 

but as Aashen says, practice makes perfect. I find it a lot easier on a track while braking at 100% effort, find it hard to brake lightly and rev match, as I struggle to keep a constant pressure on the brake pedal. a lot easier when you really stand on the brakes.

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:O

 

You're a legend, this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I've been looking for (but would possibly never have considered) for wearing when sim racing. Socks are too thin and slippy and shoes are too heavy.

 

I don't know if I could keep a pair of those in size 11 in my REAL car, for fear of misunderstandings when valeted or parked by others :lol: , but in my sim cockpit, no worries!

Edited by Aashenfox
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. I find it a lot easier on a track while braking at 100% effort, find it hard to brake lightly and rev match, as I struggle to keep a constant pressure on the brake pedal. a lot easier when you really stand on the brakes.

 

I find that tricky as well when practising on the road, I tend to find that I "stab" the brakes a tiny bit by accident when going for the throttle.

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. I find it a lot easier on a track while braking at 100% effort, find it hard to brake lightly and rev match, as I struggle to keep a constant pressure on the brake pedal. a lot easier when you really stand on the brakes.

 

I find that tricky as well when practising on the road, I tend to find that I "stab" the brakes a tiny bit by accident when going for the throttle.

 

This has always been my fail when trying to learn this particular skill, I am hopeless at it!

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Following on from heel and toeing, for gawds sake don't try to left foot brake while moving slowing in traffic... you'll press the pedal too hard, then the anti stall instinct will kick in and you'll depress the clutch - except it'll still be the brake pedal, so you'll come lurching to a stop AND you'll stall, and you'll be thoroughly confused and worried you've forgotten how to drive.

 

surprisingly, left foot braking is also easier on track, little dab on the brake with your left foot while mid corner to tuck the line in feels surprisingly natural.

Edited by brillomaster
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Following on from heel and toeing, for gawds sake don't try to left foot brake while moving slowing in traffic... you'll press the pedal too hard, then the anti stall instinct will kick in and you'll depress the clutch - except it'll still be the brake pedal, so you'll come lurching to a stop AND you'll stall, and you'll be thoroughly confused and worried you've forgotten how to drive.

 

surprisingly, left foot braking is also easier on track, little dab on the brake with your left foot while mid corner to tuck the line in feels surprisingly natural.

 

hahhahaha funny you should mention that, first time I ever tried left foot braking I thankfully made sure I was in a large empty area...you'd never think you'd stop that quick when using your left foot.....

Edited by Colin747
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Following on from heel and toeing, for gawds sake don't try to left foot brake while moving slowing in traffic... you'll press the pedal too hard, then the anti stall instinct will kick in and you'll depress the clutch - except it'll still be the brake pedal, so you'll come lurching to a stop AND you'll stall, and you'll be thoroughly confused and worried you've forgotten how to drive.

 

surprisingly, left foot braking is also easier on track, little dab on the brake with your left foot while mid corner to tuck the line in feels surprisingly natural.

 

You just described my first effort at left boot braking, and why I don't even try any more, not even in sim racing, I'm simply too many years programmed that the left foot operates the clutch, it's not in me to 'fix' that now. I can't even do it in sim racing.

 

Wanna feel bad? Watch this pro le mans driver, who is a ****ing legend in his own right, do sim racing at the highest level while joking and acting insane, I would give a bollock for his skill, but it's too late for me now... :(:lol:

 

 

Just noticed he didn't show the pedals in that one, but it's still well worth watching to get a feel for the guy (one of my favourite channels), here's one with the pedals visible, his resting position is left foot on brake. :/

 

Edited by Aashenfox
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Regarding heel and toe during gentle braking, I've had problems in the past but I've found tweaking my driving position has helped with that. If your weight is leaning too far forwards then it's hard to rotate the foot without sufficient pressure on the toe. [sad] this is the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night [/sad]

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See my legs rotate the other way, heel on the brake using my toes to regulate the accelerator.

Does anyone else find their entire rythm is car based but you can't dance? My SO gets miffed I can do 8 different things at once in the car at full speed but can't match rythm to music.

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