London Attacks

[TT350]

Perhaps as a community WE should be making a stand. Instead of suggestions, we actually take it upon ourselves to learn, in selected groups, to tool up with defensive items such as, stab/bullet proof vests, advanced self defence and unarmed combat abilities that are particularly effective in deflecting attacks and incapacitating very quickly.

 

We rely on the government and the understaffed, under equipped and probably demoralised Police.

 

I'm sure volunteers would be plentiful given the cause.

 

I know I would volunteer. It'd bring communities closer too. Have community meetings and those who don't volunteer can still be useful by being eyes and ears.

 

I'd very thoroughly relish "incapacitating" a confirmed Jihadi, too.

 

Or am I dreaming, given the nature of the country we reside in which, let's face it, loves to disarm and pacify it's public?

[Jetpilot]

Vigilante, no chance, quick step to allowing race and hate crimes.

[Strudul]

Nobody's jumping on a bandwagon. People are just reacting naturally to disturbing events that feel very close to home, literally and figuratively.

Annual homicide count by country*:

Brazil - 50,000

India - 42,000

Mexico - 20,000

Venezuela - 19,000

South Africa - 18,000

UK - 600

 

Annual homicide rate per 100,000 inhabitants*:

Honduras - 84.6

El Salvador - 64.2

Venezuela - 62.0

UK - 0.9

 

Sure, it didn't happen in my backyard, but it's a hell of a lot worse in the rest of the world and I don't see people ranting and changing their FB profile picture to support murdered Brazilians, just whatever is popular at the time.

 

 

*Quick figures rounded from Wiki, just something to reason my point

[ATTAK Z]

Perhaps as a community WE should be making a stand. Instead of suggestions, we actually take it upon ourselves to learn, in selected groups, to tool up with defensive items such as, stab/bullet proof vests, advanced self defence and unarmed combat abilities that are particularly effective in deflecting attacks and incapacitating very quickly.

 

We rely on the government and the understaffed, under equipped and probably demoralised Police.

 

I'm sure volunteers would be plentiful given the cause.

 

I know I would volunteer. It'd bring communities closer too. Have community meetings and those who don't volunteer can still be useful by being eyes and ears.

 

I'd very thoroughly relish "incapacitating" a confirmed Jihadi, too.

 

Or am I dreaming, given the nature of the country we reside in which, let's face it, loves to disarm and pacify it's public?

 

Best post you've ever written TT ... well done ! I'm too old to volunteer but I'll back you and your like all the way ... sort the bastards out on their level and see how they like it ... bully will stop bullying as soon as he's confronted but it takes guts ...

[coldel]

...and when some jihadis tool up ambush these groups who are not trained and have no legal right to do what they do you end up nothing short of gang warfare?

 

...or these vigilante groups get it wrong and start killing people mistakenly

[Paul K]

kinda in the same vein as TT350 but slightly less extreme. I think if there is a watch list. The authorities should burn their identities, release their details to the public. Once they are identified they are useless as implements of terror. They wouldn't be able to move without someone from the great British public calling it in. We are the largest resource of eyes and ears.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[coldel]

kinda in the same vein as TT350 but slightly less extreme. I think if there is a watch list. The authorities should burn their identities, release their details to the public. Once they are identified they are useless as implements of terror. They wouldn't be able to move without someone from the great British public calling it in. We are the largest resource of eyes and ears.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

And have people throwing bricks through their windows, harassing them, potentially seriously injuring or killing them - without any due cause for doing so?

 

What if per chance you had a drink with someone of that list, and people knew that you knew that person, and decided that spraying 'terrorist sympathiser' on your house and harassing your children and family was the next course of action - would that be ok?

[Willsy1980]

Perhaps as a community WE should be making a stand. Instead of suggestions, we actually take it upon ourselves to learn, in selected groups, to tool up with defensive items such as, stab/bullet proof vests, advanced self defence and unarmed combat abilities that are particularly effective in deflecting attacks and incapacitating very quickly.

 

We rely on the government and the understaffed, under equipped and probably demoralised Police.

 

I'm sure volunteers would be plentiful given the cause.

 

I know I would volunteer. It'd bring communities closer too. Have community meetings and those who don't volunteer can still be useful by being eyes and ears.

 

I'd very thoroughly relish "incapacitating" a confirmed Jihadi, too.

 

Or am I dreaming, given the nature of the country we reside in which, let's face it, loves to disarm and pacify it's public?

 

Passion and pride would be a yes from me, but surely running round blowing up Mosques and feeding Jihadi's to pigs yada yada yada. We would be stooping to their level and degrade ourselves to be animals, we are better than that. We could say for everyone of ours we take 1,000,000 of yours and nuke Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc etc but we can't it's not right. All this would do is encourage more to join their 'crusade' we need to take them out swift and silent if that is the only way.

 

Just to add, not having a go at you TT just a devils advocate type of post.

[ATTAK Z]

Perhaps as a community WE should be making a stand. Instead of suggestions, we actually take it upon ourselves to learn, in selected groups, to tool up with defensive items such as, stab/bullet proof vests, advanced self defence and unarmed combat abilities that are particularly effective in deflecting attacks and incapacitating very quickly.

 

We rely on the government and the understaffed, under equipped and probably demoralised Police.

 

I'm sure volunteers would be plentiful given the cause.

 

I know I would volunteer. It'd bring communities closer too. Have community meetings and those who don't volunteer can still be useful by being eyes and ears.

 

I'd very thoroughly relish "incapacitating" a confirmed Jihadi, too.

 

Or am I dreaming, given the nature of the country we reside in which, let's face it, loves to disarm and pacify it's public?

 

Passion and pride would be a yes from me, but surely running round blowing up Mosques and feeding Jihadi's to pigs yada yada yada. We would be stooping to their level and degrade ourselves to be animals, we are better than that. We could say for everyone of ours we take 1,000,000 of yours and nuke Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc etc but we can't it's not right. All this would do is encourage more to join their 'crusade' we need to take them out swift and silent if that is the only way.

 

Just to add, not having a go at you TT just a devils advocate type of post.

With respect, TT never advocated anything you are talking about in the post you quoted

[Willsy1980]

 

Passion and pride would be a yes from me, but surely running round blowing up Mosques and feeding Jihadi's to pigs yada yada yada. We would be stooping to their level and degrade ourselves to be animals, we are better than that. We could say for everyone of ours we take 1,000,000 of yours and nuke Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria etc etc but we can't it's not right. All this would do is encourage more to join their 'crusade' we need to take them out swift and silent if that is the only way.

 

Just to add, not having a go at you TT just a devils advocate type of post.

With respect, TT never advocated anything you are talking about in the post you quoted

 

True, was more an extreme variation of vigilante style retaliation. As we know things could very easily escalate into mayhem.

[colesl4w]

Genuine question / scary thought here. Currently, terrorist acts are intentionally attention grabbing. They happen in crowded places and the people who do them usually get caught at the event.

 

What's to stop communities of these guys essentially becoming serial killers? Doing murders throughout the country in secluded places, not being caught each time? That's even scarier IMO.

[Jay84]

As I said earlier, at what point would you release the info to the populace? Yes some people would watch like the neighbourhood watch, but the EDL types would resort to violence.

Maybe national service for the modern age.

[TT350]

If I can take the brunt of an attack rather than families, women and children, elderly, by being a visible target then I would if given the tools and knowledge to weather it.

 

I don't think that it'd turn into gang warfare if the people recruited were genuinely trying to defend the community. I'd like to think I could spot a thug that was just out for violence.

 

 

I only suggest these things because, after seeing these attacks where no firearms are used and people did fight back, why can't we preemptively train for it? If I'd have been there, I genuinely feel that I'd have confronted one or more, despite their knives. One on one, they'd have to be very good with a knife to quickly catch me out with it and if they didn't then my legs are longer than their arms. And if you're in a group and are all trained in unarmed combat and deflection such as Aikido, then that Jihadi has no chance.

 

Stab/bullet proof vests

Arm protection

Anti-blade gloves

Self defence proficient

 

You become an extremely hard target for someone welding a knife.

 

Just my opinion and ideas.

 

 

 

[StevoD]

As I said earlier, at what point would you release the info to the populace? Yes some people would watch like the neighbourhood watch, but the EDL types would resort to violence.

Maybe national service for the modern age.

 

i guess it would be no different to the sex offenders list, to a degree could be a good deterrent. As right now they are on a classified list viewing terrorist related @*!# in the safety of there own homes, Would they so happily do it knowing the EDL league on the other side of town now know they are doing it, or would the risk of getting butchered deter them from looking on the web in the first place?

 

Also i wonder how many time this thread of others like it have been scanned by intelligence,

 

Hello NSA , CTC

 

which raises the next point at what point do you end up on a watch list the text we type in here or in google looking for statistics or news enough to get us under watch?

[StevoD]

If I can take the brunt of an attack rather than families, women and children, elderly, by being a visible target then I would if given the tools and knowledge to weather it.

 

I don't think that it'd turn into gang warfare if the people recruited were genuinely trying to defend the community. I'd like to think I could spot a thug that was just out for violence.

 

 

I only suggest these things because, after seeing these attacks where no firearms are used and people did fight back, why can't we preemptively train for it? If I'd have been there, I genuinely feel that I'd have confronted one or more, despite their knives. One on one, they'd have to be very good with a knife to quickly catch me out with it and if they didn't then my legs are longer than their arms. And if you're in a group and are all trained in unarmed combat and deflection such as Aikido, then that Jihadi has no chance.

 

Stab/bullet proof vests

Arm protection

Anti-blade gloves

Self defence proficient

 

You become an extremely hard target for someone welding a knife.

 

Just my opinion and ideas.

 

very easy to say this at a keyboard when the fight or flight and shock kicks in an adrenaline is pumping you wont be thinking your naturally instincts will take over and thats when you will find out what your brain wants to do,

 

I mean im guilty for saying im sure i would here a car doing 70mph racing across a bridge fast enough to do get out of it ways, but after watching the CCtv from New york there is very little chance you could do anything in the time frame you dont have that 10-20 seconds a movie give you to come up with a plan

 

this might come across as im talking down but its not meant to be its late and i have had a drink.

[Jay84]

I imagine we are, that's what cookies help to do. You visit certain websites, and I hear your pop ups advertise singles in your local area. That's why all my adverts are car parts based...plus a detailed lost of Derby's singles.

[TT350]

If I can take the brunt of an attack rather than families, women and children, elderly, by being a visible target then I would if given the tools and knowledge to weather it.

 

I don't think that it'd turn into gang warfare if the people recruited were genuinely trying to defend the community. I'd like to think I could spot a thug that was just out for violence.

 

 

I only suggest these things because, after seeing these attacks where no firearms are used and people did fight back, why can't we preemptively train for it? If I'd have been there, I genuinely feel that I'd have confronted one or more, despite their knives. One on one, they'd have to be very good with a knife to quickly catch me out with it and if they didn't then my legs are longer than their arms. And if you're in a group and are all trained in unarmed combat and deflection such as Aikido, then that Jihadi has no chance.

 

Stab/bullet proof vests

Arm protection

Anti-blade gloves

Self defence proficient

 

You become an extremely hard target for someone welding a knife.

 

Just my opinion and ideas.

 

very easy to say this at a keyboard when the fight or flight and shock kicks in an adrenaline is pumping you wont be thinking your naturally instincts will take over and thats when you will find out what your brain wants to do,

 

I mean im guilty for saying im sure i would here a car doing 70mph racing across a bridge fast enough to do get out of it ways, but after watching the CCtv from New york there is very little chance you could do anything in the time frame you dont have that 10-20 seconds a movie give you to come up with a plan

 

this might come across as im talking down but its not meant to be its late and i have had a drink.

 

The average person doesn't know how to fight and go to any lengths to avoid one. It is hard at first to override your natural instincts to duck and cover your head or turn away from an attacker or lift your knee towards your stomach at the same time as sort of crouch.

 

When I used to go boxing it was really strange at first to not sort of, cower, if you will. And it leaves you open to attack.

 

Once you get over it, it's much easier to think straight when you're under attack and form a strategy while deflecting blows.

 

I'm not just being a keyboard warrior and loudmouth. I have a fair bit of fight experience and not just inside a ring sparring.

 

Fight or flight can be overcome with rational thought. I'd be willing to retrain and train for specific circumstances and weapons.

 

I'm not talking about just getting tooled up like a footie fan and looking for trouble. I'm taking about being well trained members of the community willing to assist under their own time and own funding to defend those who can't or don't feel able to.

[sipar69]

Nobody's jumping on a bandwagon. People are just reacting naturally to disturbing events that feel very close to home, literally and figuratively.

Annual homicide count by country*:

Brazil - 50,000

India - 42,000

Mexico - 20,000

Venezuela - 19,000

South Africa - 18,000

UK - 600

 

Annual homicide rate per 100,000 inhabitants*:

Honduras - 84.6

El Salvador - 64.2

Venezuela - 62.0

UK - 0.9

 

Sure, it didn't happen in my backyard, but it's a hell of a lot worse in the rest of the world and I don't see people ranting and changing their FB profile picture to support murdered Brazilians, just whatever is popular at the time.

 

 

*Quick figures rounded from Wiki, just something to reason my point

 

I just think t's natural to be more emotionally affected by events close to home. It's also because such things are so rare here. Sadly, acts of terrorism are much more common in some countries.

 

Of course, we should all try to keep some perspective and remember that bad things happen elsewhere on a bigger scale, but it goes back to my point about the fact that we're not robots.

 

PS No idea what you mean about Facebook. I don't use it.

[Ponsonby]

Perhaps as a community WE should be making a stand. Instead of suggestions, we actually take it upon ourselves to learn, in selected groups, to tool up with defensive items such as, stab/bullet proof vests, advanced self defence and unarmed combat abilities that are particularly effective in deflecting attacks and incapacitating very quickly.

 

We rely on the government and the understaffed, under equipped and probably demoralised Police.

 

I'm sure volunteers would be plentiful given the cause.

 

I know I would volunteer. It'd bring communities closer too. Have community meetings and those who don't volunteer can still be useful by being eyes and ears.

 

I'd very thoroughly relish "incapacitating" a confirmed Jihadi, too.

 

Or am I dreaming, given the nature of the country we reside in which, let's face it, loves to disarm and pacify it's public?

 

Why not volunteer as a Special Constable? In that way you can make a difference, walk the streets to keep people safe etc.

[Jetpilot]

Special constable, vigilante trained in hand to hand combat etc is no going to be of no use when you are faced with an attacker with an ied or auto/semi automatic weapon as per say the Paris attacks, I know which one of your fight or flight you will be choosing if bullets are flying by your ears. I admire the dedication though.

[The Bounty Bar Kid]

so they can collect their many virgins in heaven and became martyrs!

 

I wonder if the nutters are aware that the many virgins in heaven are all blokes!!

 

I hope they are

Edited June 6, 2017 by The Bounty Bar Kid

[Ekona]

Self defence against knives? No chance.

 

 

In the heat of the moment, you've got practically no defence whatsoever. As silly as these videos sometimes are (like the kung fu masters who can magically disarm anyone), if you look at how the big guy suddenly flips and goes mental, the trained student who seconds before had disarmed him can't do a damned thing.

 

No, if someone comes at you with a weapon you run like the wind and hope you're at least the second slowest person running away.

[Paul K]

kinda in the same vein as TT350 but slightly less extreme. I think if there is a watch list. The authorities should burn their identities, release their details to the public. Once they are identified they are useless as implements of terror. They wouldn't be able to move without someone from the great British public calling it in. We are the largest resource of eyes and ears.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

And have people throwing bricks through their windows, harassing them, potentially seriously injuring or killing them - without any due cause for doing so?

 

What if per chance you had a drink with someone of that list, and people knew that you knew that person, and decided that spraying 'terrorist sympathiser' on your house and harassing your children and family was the next course of action - would that be ok?

 

valid point!! hadn't really thought that through

[colesl4w]

I've heard martial art instructors who have been training their entire lives that if they were faced by a girl with a knife they would still run away.

[Jay84]

With the right equipment though, the vests and gloves? And a baton too. Gotta say though, even kitted up, I'd still run. In fact I'd rather be unkitted so i can run faster...I'm a lover not a fighter.