lucky

[coldel]

You still did jump to a conclusion, never said it was the wrong one

 

So, what is tough? Apart from the ability to incarcerate with no warrant and no evidence and detain at judges discretion for 7 day increments? Send them back (born in Britain)?

[Jetpilot]

So you think there is no evidence when they are known to the security services?? No smoke without fire and tough is whatever you want it to be, or are you happy that this continues??

 

Lets not try to make this a racist issue as others have with comments like "send them back", i couldnt care what race they are or arent or where they were born, i am talking Terrorists, nothing more, nothing less!!!!

[Jetpilot]

All religions ask their followers to kill if you take them literally. Therein lies the problem.

 

If we are being pedantic yes, but we are not, lets just say then to avoid any confusion, the religions that ACT on those words.

[Aashenfox]

The main way to get yourself on a list, is to Google carelessly. That's all it takes, and unfortunately reading Wikipedia and watching YouTube content on topics whose names I will not type here, for the exact reason I'm explaining, is not enough to arrest someone. It may be in the future though, the way things are going. I see a phenomenal amount of civil liberties we currently take for granted going bye bye in the near future, and rightly so, we can't carry on like this. We have reached such a massive number that the miniscule percentage of crazies has also reached a number where they can't all be watched anymore. Another advert for population control and/or a devastating world war/epidemic/cosmic event.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Aashenfox

[coldel]

So you think there is no evidence when they are known to the security services?? No smoke without fire and tough is whatever you want it to be, or are you happy that this continues??

 

Lets not try to make this a racist issue as others have with comments like "send them back", i couldnt care what race they are or arent or where they were born, i am talking Terrorists, nothing more, nothing less!!!!

 

Don't be daft no one on here is happy this continues. But, given that we have some of the toughest local laws in the world on ability to detain, question and imprison based on probable cause to commit terror, what are these tougher actions we need to take?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jay84]

Yeah I don't fancy a world war, am I too old to be conscripted? JP is right that these things should be stopped and punishment needs to be tough for those caught. I personally don't know how you can ensure that the person you arrest is the right person without catching them with a bag of bombs. We're upgraded to critical now, maybe that'll give more power to question less questionable search history.

 

As coldel has said, I want it to end, but can't see what more we can do, where do we escalate it to next?

I guess that's why I don't run the country.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Jay84

[Aashenfox]

Also, don't forget, you are in the safest country in the world (I can't prove that, but I believe it, and obviously I don't mean in comparison to countries that have never been involved in anything, I mean out of the 'target' states for terrorism) with THE MOST effective anti terrorist police in the world, who are currently making at least one terror arrest per day. Wasn't the last major atrocity in the UK the bus bombings? Dude, that was 12 years ago! And look at the stuff happening in other places, in France, for example, how many attacks? Everything that can be done is being done, and it would be a shame to live in one of the safest places in the world and seem ungrateful, no? Not trying to lay a guilt trip, or **** you off, just saying. We can't even afford to pay our police, so I understand, thank Zeus nobody really hates Greece.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Jay84]

I guess we take take it for granted, being on an island like we are, our boarders are a bit easier to control

[Jetpilot]

I am enveloping France into it, few and far between it may be (here) and appreciate what we dont see and what is done, but imho i dont think anything like this needs to occur, especially as 99% are known to security services, would you not admit there must be some kind of failing at that point, or just simply we dont have the resources?

[Aashenfox]

I honestly believe that no matter how many resources they throw at it, they are still left with the rock and the hard place, the rock being not arresting POTENTIALLY dangerous people, and the hard place being to arrest people willy nilly and seriously fk up some good people's lives. Here're two shovels, take your pick.

[Aashenfox]

P.S. And you've gotta understand the position these kids are in (at the time when they get on these lists), born to Syrian or Iraqi parents or whatever, they've got to be wondering about their heritage, why wouldn't they be reading innocently about their roots and what their people at home are fighting about, just as many who would find it insane, might also be affected by propaganda offering them an easy path to eternal glory, rather than a trip down the job center because nobody hires arabs. The status quo makes it simply inevitable. All you can do is try to learn the lessons, which I'm sure the British police will.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Aashenfox

[Ekona]

I'd rather 10 guilty people go free than 1 innocent person goes to jail. If that means that we end up with more Manchesters, then unfortunately so be it.

 

I wouldn't want to be thrown in jail or deported because someone sent me an email and I opened it, or all my mates were dodgy and I genuinely had no idea.

[Exec]

This is the 350z forum Dan, everybody is dodgy! Some more so than others.. With their exhaust spacer mods and non genuine plasti dip mishaps

[Ekona]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-arena-bomb-materials-photos.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

Plenty of detail about the attack there. Amber will not be happy!

[TT350]

Well Roger Moore passed away, so we're all f*$ked.

 

007 Moore was the first and only line of defence.

[Adrian@TORQEN]

Well Roger Moore passed away, so we're all f*$ked.

 

007 Moore was the first and only line of defence.

 

There is a leak from MI6 in Daily Mail saying Ekona is the next Bond!

[TT350]

Well Roger Moore passed away, so we're all f*$ked.

 

007 Moore was the first and only line of defence.

 

There is a leak from MI6 in Daily Mail saying Ekona is the next Bond!

 

Not tall enough

[Ekona]

And I don't like Martinis.

[TT350]

And I don't like Martinis.

 

Pmsl I don't even know how tall you are!!

 

I agree about Martini. If I was bond, it'd be a bud - light, not shaken or stirred.

 

Instead of a suit it'd be jeans and vans and a John Dere cap.

 

Anyway I really want it to be Idris Elba.

[Zeezeebaba]

The Americans tried the round up tactic with suspected extremist individuals. Didn't turn out to we'll the old Guantanomo facility. I agree with Ekona, rounding up every person who has Googled ISIS is a no go and would probably incite even more radicalisation.

[Jetpilot]

I agree with Ekona, rounding up every person who has Googled ISIS is a no go and would probably incite even more radicalisation.

 

I didnt say that at all, lets be realistic about what the security services deem a terror threat and i am sure that doesnt include isis popping up in a google search The security services know who these people are in most cases with very good reason.

[coldel]

Some interesting stories around this subject today (although plenty back in 2012 as well) in terms of what it means to properly watch and track an individual. There are something like 3000 'known individuals potentially involved in terror' in the UK. It takes a team of 30 people to put physical surveillance on them for 24 hours. Then you add on the cost of hardware such as vehicles, technology, communications etc. Then you have what has been alluded to in terms of digital monitoring but that is only a small part of tracking potential terror suspects, it still requires manpower and stepping away from the laptop to gather enough evidence to reasonably detain someone. It would actually mean more than doubling the resource of M15, police and counter-terrorism to even consider monitoring all 3000 of these people. It costs tens of thousands of pounds to track one person to gather the evidence and detain them by all accounts.

[Ekona]

I agree with Ekona, rounding up every person who has Googled ISIS is a no go and would probably incite even more radicalisation.

 

I didnt say that at all, lets be realistic about what the security services deem a terror threat and i am sure that doesnt include isis popping up in a google search The security services know who these people are in most cases with very good reason.

But how would you define who is and isn't a threat? Serious question, not being flippant on this. Genuinely curious to know what you'd define as a terror threat.

[Jetpilot]

I agree with Ekona, rounding up every person who has Googled ISIS is a no go and would probably incite even more radicalisation.

 

I didnt say that at all, lets be realistic about what the security services deem a terror threat and i am sure that doesnt include isis popping up in a google search The security services know who these people are in most cases with very good reason.

But how would you define who is and isn't a threat? Serious question, not being flippant on this. Genuinely curious to know what you'd define as a terror threat.

 

I would happily put faith in our very well informed security services to make that judgement, lets just put it like that

[Ekona]

Okay, so how do you think they should define it? Someone with terrorist mates? Someone who downloads a bomb document? Someone who one time visited an IS website? You can't just say trust the security services, as they have to have defined boundaries too.

 

I can't believe you don't have an opinion on this, put it that way.