Ekona Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Ten years this year since the iPhone came out, btw. I remember looking at one in the O2 shop (that was the only place you could get them, if you remember) and thinking it was okay but nothing special. Decided to treat myself to one a couple of months later and found myself quite amazed by how good it was, and then ten years on and I've totally bought into the Apple ecosystem. Couldn't imagine having a phone without proper interwebs stuff now. I think that overall Apple have got slightly worse, but Android has got much better. Early Android was a clusterf*ck and buggy as hell, whereas early Apple was design and simplicity perfection. Now Android is arguably more stable and iOS the one that looks poorly designed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 iPhone worked because no one else was close to the vision they had at the time, which is why it worked and where it is now. So of course repeating this in a market where established norms have changed it wont succeed, but that doesn't make it a bad idea (because at the time they effectively destroyed Nokia the market leader). I actually see it as Android not performing as well as Apple, its outrageous that with all its restrictions that 1 in 5 phones is from a single company, whereas 3 in 5 are from a cartel of some of the biggest tech companies in the world who cannot charge as much as Apple and cannot convert such a large base of users of what is clearly a restricted device. The Android cartel if you like should have wiped Apple out by now if all those restrictions are so important to day to day use. You could hypothesis that its only price restricting Apple from taking more market share...if they priced in line with Android phones you would see a shift (who knows what without some pricing research on the subject to hand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) The Android cartel if you like should have wiped Apple out by now if all those restrictions are so important to day to day use. When (if) Samsung becomes more fashionable than Apple, this will happen. Apple survives on its brand, not its features, which are poor compared to Android and always have been, just they worked more reliably in the start, but that's not the case any more, so why are they still popular? You say you don't need all the features and things I can do with my S7 edge, and I agree, just like you don't need all the features of your iPhone either. It's a fashion statement, or even a loyalty statement. "I'm an Apple guy", "I'm an Android guy". If you look at it in ones and zeroes, purely objectively, it's just like the Mac/PC debate, and we all know which one of those will always have market share. You're right they have the market share simply because they were the first with a 'decent' product, but iPhones are still the Macs and Android phones are still the 'PCs' for reasons of compatibility. Isn't it time we all sat up and looked around and said, you know, now that other companies have caught up, why am I lining this disgusting corporation's pockets while they sit on their laurels, quietly usurping my freedom of choice to maintain their ecosystem that isn't compatible with anything else? Because it 'just works'? Hmmmmm. If Apple ditched iTunes and other ridiculous DRM methods, and opened up the system a little more, (standard ports for charging and data access would be a great start!!), allowed expandable storage, reasonable cost increases for extra built in storage and viewing the entire file system of the phone, as well as made competitive hardware, and made them a little less feminine as devices (ok, the all black ones look alright, but still kinda 'soft'), I'd be looking at their stuff as an option for my next upgrade. Edited May 10, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Because they make the best product for my needs. Why would I choose something inferior (for my purposes) just because it's seen as more fashionable not to be fashionable? Given that Androids outsell iPhones now, surely the sheeple now own an Android phone? Tbh once you start using the fashion argument about phones and OSeseses I'm reluctant to continue a sensible debate. I don't use a PC over a Mac because I want to be cool, I use it because I want to play games which I can't do as easily on a Mac. I have no moral issues with Apple at all. They're no worse than any other large corporation, and given that their customer service is awesome I'll forgive almost any minor discretions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Samsung are as nasty a corporate (if such a thing exists - all companies generally are in it for the money and the more they get the better) - so I don't really buy into that argument. They are not some fluffy lovely ethical company. In terms of features, as discussed I miss none of what you find as a deal breaker because I sit in that group that has no need for those features, which is much larger than the one you sit in - and in my view its not about the ecosystem/open source that drives everyone to Android, its fundamentally the price. A quick google shows for instance a chart on what people use phones for (OK its Germany but sure the trend is similar across the UK) - everything in that list is easily done on both Android and iOS, music aside where you are tied into iTunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) I'm trying to explain that while it is playing a role that I am someone who is au fait with such matters, in a minority, that does not mean that these concerns are exclusive to me. You all may not care right now, but just like my mother who was a Mac person due to an early career in graphic design and photography, and is now totally invested in Apple and can't get out, despite wanting to, she acknowledges that the Samsung phones are much better as devices (she was a programmer most of her career, so you can put her in the techy category too, someone capable of recognizing this), then there's my wife, who thought apple was all great until she wanted to take possession of her music and found that she couldn't without using third party dodgy apps (and then later found out it would be easier to torrent all her music from pirate sites - legal if you own the originals, as she does) than it would to try to get the songs she paid for off the phone!! Then soon after that, she filled it up and asked me how she could get more space, I said 'you can't' and she said 'wtf, you cannot be serious? why the f does anyone buy Apple, what a bag of shite'. She actually couldn't believe that she had spent 700 euros on a device that once it was full was 'end of life', and she's right, that is fecking outrageous. If you don't plan on ever using a smartphone to it's potential, then buy a new nokia 3310. If you do, then it is INEVITABLE as an Apple device owner, you will one day find yourself swearing about their ecosystem because it is cringeworthy. Add to that, that I was an Apple fanboy when they 'just worked' and nobody else's devices did, but things have changed since then. Just because you don't think you need a feature, doesn't mean something is not better because it has it. It's like saying that a Datsun 510 is better than a 350Z because it has all the features I need and none that I don't. When that person wants 300hp or a more, they might suddenly rethink that opinion. Or think about the people who buy a 350Z simply because they can, and never take it over 3000rpm, they would have been fine with a mini metro, and will never use the capabilities of a 350Z. You probably think I'm pushing Samsung for reasons that are only important to me, but I promise you I am just trying to help people understand that the choice is one of fashion, because there is no quantifiable reason beyond aesthetics or because it's 'what you're used to', to choose an Apple device, in fact, by doing so, you are just restricting yourself. I say it again, whether it matters to you or not, Android flagships are better devices than Apple flagships for the real and quantifiable reasons I have stated, regardless whether those features are important to you or not. Samsung is a normal toward good corporation, as corporations go (management corruption at the top aside), they are not in the business of working out how to trap you into their system, they are about self improvement and consistently make sure their products adhere to industry standards. Sure they encourage you to stay samsung by providing connectivity benefits, but I can't think of a single feature of a Samsung phone that is 100% exclusively usable ONLY with another Samsung device, for example, the Gear S3 smartwatch is compatible with Apple, but the Apple Watch? hahahahaha, you must be joking! But if you don't like samsung, you can choose a genuinely fluffy Android phone if you want; Huawei or LG for example. You can listen to what I'm saying and think it doesn't matter because you are a light user, and you think iPhones are prettier and that's fine (but recognise that you made that choice for purely arbitrary reasons). Or you can ignore/argue with what I say because you think I'm an Android fanboy and an Apple hater who doesn't understand what Apple is about (but that would be a mistake), or lastly, you can see me as I am, a guy just sharing the facts as he sees them after a lifetime with technology. Finally, there's a metric which kinda puts this to bed. As I mentioned before, it's MAINLY a loyalty/fashion thing, so generally, Apple Users keep buying Apple and Android Users keep buying Android, but it has consistently been noted (and is the reason why Apple's market share is slowly being whittled away), that people who switch from Apple to Android do not switch back and Android users who switch to Apple don't usually keep them long, switching back to Android shortly after. Back button for the win. Edited May 10, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Because they make the best product for my needs. How's that? What does your iPhone have that a cheaper Samsung phone doesn't? Ah, yes, it supports your Apple watch, shame Apple decided not to support Android, now you're stuck with an iPhone (if I was a dick, I'd say something like "I rest my case" right there! ). Can you also charge any of your other Micro USB devices with your phone charger? I can!! Did you choose it because your last phone was Apple and that's what you're used to? If so, nothing wrong with that, it's the most important reason of all, but if so, tell it like it is. Edited May 10, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Sorry bud, but that's absolute nonsense. "Inevitable as an Apple device owner, you will one day find yourself swearing about their ecosystem because it is cringeworthy", what utter tosh. In ten years it's never bothered me in the slightest People are buying Android devices because they're a heck of a lot cheaper. That's it. They do exactly what an iPhone does, but they do it differently for less. If I were starting again with no history of either OS I might well choose Android too simply based on a better spec device at a lower price. Or I might not. There's plenty of people who switch to Android, realise it's not for them and switch back (me included), to say that they don't is just daft. All iTunes songs are DRM-free, so what's your Mum's problem? And given that most people are switching to streaming services these days like Spotify etc, why is that even an issue any more? This started off as a reasonable conversation and I agreed with some of your earlier points, but I can't argue on this level with a fanboy. Apple do some things well, Android does some things well, and both do some things terribly. Two different ways of doing things, but neither is better nor worse overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 Appreciate war and peace Fox, but admit i skim read it. But as I said, most people I know using both iOS and Android do not use the functionality you outlined as the reason for buying Android over iOS. I am not saying you are a fanboy, and neither am I, but Apple works 100% for my needs and I like their system, Android is cheaper (which is shown in tonnes of industry research to be the main factor for purchase of Android over Apple because people want value for money and ability to use all the functions outlined in the survey results I attached above) - until there is a functionality/feature that Android has, that I think is invaluable (and I represent a broad consumer group in terms of my usage of a mobile) that Apple cannot provide why swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangzoom Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 When the first iPhone came out I was using one these.... and when I saw Jobs 'unlock' the iPhone with finger I knew the Treo was destined for the bin. But Apple seem to have become rather stagnant, I moved over the S7 12 months ago and haven't looked back. Android has so many more user customisable features, and the main OS is just as stable as iOS. Its pretty hard to buy a bad smartphone these though,though not sure if the flagship handsets are worth the extra cost. I recent just picked a used S7 for my wife after her 5S died. For £300 its hard to see how the S8 or iPhone 7 fan justify been nearly double the price for very little added functionality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I tend to skip a number of generations, so went from a 4s to a 6 to a 7 Plus. You do tend to notice the changes when doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekona Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 My 6 Plus is the first phone I've kept for more than a year, I'll admit. It does everything so very well, so I didn't feel the need to upgrade to the S, nor the 7. I will be getting the 7S/8/X/whatever it's called this year, simply because it's now starting to feel a bit sluggish with new apps. No surprises there though, it's a four year old design! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Appreciate war and peace Fox, but admit i skim read it. But as I said, most people I know using both iOS and Android do not use the functionality you outlined as the reason for buying Android over iOS. I am not saying you are a fanboy, and neither am I, but Apple works 100% for my needs and I like their system, Android is cheaper (which is shown in tonnes of industry research to be the main factor for purchase of Android over Apple because people want value for money and ability to use all the functions outlined in the survey results I attached above) - until there is a functionality/feature that Android has, that I think is invaluable (and I represent a broad consumer group in terms of my usage of a mobile) that Apple cannot provide why swap. Sorry, I type fast and have a lot to say, don't blame you for skipping. Agreed, it's a purely arbitrary thing. We all will continue to do what we do until there's a reason to change. Edited May 10, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) In ten years it's never bothered me Nonsense, eh? OK, we shall see. P.S. Can I use your crystal ball when you've finished? What's total tosh and utter nonsense is saying that (most) people are buying Android because they're cheaper! S8 is 1000 euros here. Most people are buying Android , like my wife, because they are geting smarter with their smartphones and running foul of these 'operational consequences' of being an Apple user. "You hear that, Mr Anderson....? That, is the sound of....inevitability." I believe it, Apple's days are numbered (it's a high number though, I won't deny it). Edited May 10, 2017 by Aashenfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 I think clarification is that in general Android are 'cheaper' rather than cheap. Its only recently that Apple brought in the cheaper version of its phone, which is still probably more expensive than 50% of all Android phones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashenfox Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Yeh, there are a lot of cheap android phones, which push down the average a huge, HUGE amount compared to the expensive and limited number of Apple phones. Let's say we're talking about Apple vs Samsung flagships only, for the sake of argument, and say that the prices are about 15% higher for Apple, I'd go with that. So, android flagships are cheaper, agreed, let's move along those lines...what makes you buy the more expensive, less compatible, less competent device? Let's put it the other way, what does your iPhone do for you that my S7 edge doesn't? Let me have the easier side of the argument for a while. You don't have to answer that, you said it already and I have no qualms with your reasoning, you're happy with Apple so you won't change, despite costing more and giving you nothing over my Android device. It;s what you're used to and that's fine. so at least we can all agree that what it comes down to is that Android is for everyone, iPhone only for casuals who won't fill it up or care that they can only access their music through iTunes which can only be installed on 6 devices before you have to prove to Apple that you aren't trying to steal someone's account information, for the rest of their lives, and I'll admit it is slightly more user friendly device for those types of Users. The difference is that when you grow, Apple doesn't grow with you. I gots no more to say you'll be pleased to know, thanks for the cool debate. Edited May 10, 2017 by Aashenfox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldel Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 You are right Android is for everyone which is 100% Apple is for casuals which are 90% so they both generally meet the needs of most people 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) I have both - an Android and iOS as a work and personal phone, my Android sits mostly uncharged in my work bag and a fair number of work colleagues use my iPhone number to get me - I just cannot get on with Android either. But each to their own as you say. Similarly, I have Android and Windows for work (AutoCAD + Office Apps + Outlook) but use Apple at home ... the main purpose of my query is to rationalise my Apple gear ... I have a MacBook Pro which I use for just about everything I need to do at home, but I also have an iPad Air which I rarely use and the 2 phones already mentioned ... I favour the iPhone 5S for it's size but worry if it won't cut the mustard in the near future and that's perhaps why I should hang on to the 7 ... first world problems ... ETA I don't need to sell anything but obviously would do if the price was high enough Edited May 10, 2017 by ATTAK Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strudul Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) Hence my recommendation for the iPhone SE... Same size as the 5S, but with the power of the 6, which should keep it relevant for longer. Edited May 10, 2017 by Strudul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATTAK Z Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 May the power of the 6 be with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exec Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 In smartphones I went from an iPhone 3GS to a Samsung S3 then upgraded in late 2016 to a Samsung S5 (kept this for one month) then my Boss offered me a brand new S7 Edge for £200 so I took it. He didn't like Android, some do some don't. Personally iv grown fond of Android. Initially after the switch I enjoyed FREE apps I had to pay for via Apple. Not sure if it's still this way. I remember watching 'The Matrix' years ago and seeing the girl learn how to fly a helicopter in minutes. The impossible. But now with the way the Internet is evolving, you can look online, wherever you are, and probably do that! Miracles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodder Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 My 6 Plus is the first phone I've kept for more than a year, I'll admit. It does everything so very well, so I didn't feel the need to upgrade to the S, nor the 7. I will be getting the 7S/8/X/whatever it's called this year, simply because it's now starting to feel a bit sluggish with new apps. No surprises there though, it's a four year old design! I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, I did drop my 6plus last week and smashed the screen for the first time ever. Got my old 5 out of the drawer and updated to iOS 10....boy did it feel small but worked surprising well until I realised I hadn't network unlocked. Anyway had screen replaced as I couldn't justify buying the 7 when a new one is around the corner. I doubt I'd go for the plus size again though. I'm a relative tech savvy person who would but the latest phones pre iPhone era, my first one being a 3G which I switched from a Sony p910i IIRC. Anyway I haven't looked back since then and I guess I've got comfortable with Apple. I never know any one else's choices but whenever I've tried android I've not got on with it for various reasons and I know a few folks who've came back to Apple after giving it a go but I also know plenty who've stayed or gone the other way. Horses for courses and pretty much personal preference these days. As for the storage argument, I have a 64gb and don't use anywhere near that with 20gb data per month and streaming services there's no need for my requirements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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